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Thread: Clans and the tower wars.

  1. #1

    Clans and the tower wars.

    It seems that on Rk1 the clans are achieveing total domination of the open Notum fields. The overwhelming clan superiority when it comes to land control has been building for a while now.

    Should this have an effect on the game story? Will we hear anything from OT about the situation.
    Last edited by Alezander; Aug 28th, 2011 at 15:40:55.

  2. #2
    98% of OT don't care about NW or need towers, myself included.
    Callin them superior when they attack fields that nobody cares about is like winning the handicap olympics lol.
    220/30 Doctor(sistadoc)
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    -------------------------------
    Director of Shadow Company

  3. #3
    Using the Notum Wars in RP/story stuff is an easy way to make people feel like they're involved in the storyline.

    Unfortunately a lot of RPers care very little for NW and act almost as if towers don't even exist in the world.

    And on the other side of things, the towerwars people - who are more hardcore RPers than anyone viewing this forum - don't notice the places where this could brought up (Editor News, CoT, BoD, etc).

    So personally I think that it should have an effect. But actually implementing that effect and getting people to feel involved might be more difficult than it really should be.
    Advisor of Lumen Orien

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by sistadoc View Post
    98% of OT don't care about NW or need towers, myself included.
    Callin them superior when they attack fields that nobody cares about is like winning the handicap olympics lol.
    I do not know if you refer to the player base itself or the game story.

    Lets take on the player base. Saying that 98% of the OT player base does not care, is somewhat silly. Faction xp bonus has a serious effect on the rate at which members of an entire faction level at. 15%-16% (aproaching 17%) add xp for one side over 2% for the other is a serious handicap. ESPECIALY post level 200 when leveling becomes somewhat more a challenge and you cant just hire a kite team.

    Further more, owning towers does have certain benefits. Yes you can live with out them, but when it comes down to the very end, it is still better to have them then not to have them.

    Additionaly it gives a good oportunity for dynamic fun pvp outside Borealis or the Battle Station with tangible benefits.

    Now saying that you dont care, sounds like you are trying to justify your failiure.

    Tower wars still have an impact upon the game.

    Now from an RP perspective.

    OT has been losing mining capacity for a while now. The Unionist take over of 4 Holes and the fact that ICC licensed Notum fields across the planet are now predominantly owned by the Clans would have a serious impact upon both output and the market's perception of OT's ability to make income out of Rubi-ka. OT is according to game lore a publicly owned company. Meaning it has to sale shares on the galactic market to raise funds. We know that Notum production and related industries make up the lion share of OT's buissness. I am sure that any investor would be concerned about the potential outcome of such a massive drop in OT's production capacity.

    OT should react to all this and concerning the potential effects this could have on OT, it would be the responsability of corporate officers to adress the situation.

    And even if all this has no major effect on OT's profits and output, it would still be a major PR blow and a public humiliation. With all the assets on the planet and the massive power diference OT is getting kicked up and down across Rubi Ka by the rebels, apparently without OT being able to do anything about it. It would be a serious blow to the corporations image.

  5. #5
    Short answer: I guess would be that the Clans are cutting into Omni-Tek's mining operations, and profits. that being said Omni Directors might be a bit edgy, and receiving nasty memos from the head office. More or less, Clans are selling the notum to Omni to be resold again, and shipped off world iirc.

    Generally, what ever power fluctuations that did happen in NWs did not impact the story or time line. Will that change, who knows.
    Point Blank

  6. #6
    Kotts is correct. Omni-Trans is the only (legal) exporter of Notum off of Rubi-Ka.

    The Clans controlling some of the mining operations would likely have a very minimal impact on Omni-Tek in the grand scheme.

    Here's a scenario:

    The Clans control a large number of Notum Mines and are bringing it out of the ground tons at a time. Omni-AF patrols the Omni-Trans shipping lanes, keeping them open despite the space battles being waged against the aliens, making smuggling Notum an extremely dangerous and expensive endeavor.

    Since Shipping costs are extreme and the amount mined/exported pales in comparison to what Omni-Tek is exporting the price of Clan Exported notum will be higher than Omni-Tek notum. So with the exception of like a few vendors willing to buy more expensive product to support a cause, the Clans would be priced out of the Notum market.

    This results in the clans selling the Notum to Omni-Mine. Omni-Mine pays the clans as 'Independent Contractors'. The buying price of the Notum is still less than the Market price so Omni-Tek will still make profit, albeit a smaller one. And, as long as profit is being made, there's no point in getting the Military involved and making a big deal out of it.

    The Clans are making money. Omni-Tek is making money. And it frees up the Omni-Mine workers who normally would be working the mines to be transferred to Omni-AF to help quell this ridiculous rebellion.

    So, as a result, Omni RPers, save for the zealots, really don't have a reason to get their panties in a bunch over Notum Wars. The Clans on the other hand, do.
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  7. #7
    The clans are, in effect, working for us? Oh, the sweet irony!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Flipyap View Post
    The clans are, in effect, working for us? Oh, the sweet irony!
    It's kind of like more expensive labor.
    Point Blank

  9. #9
    A few things on Rubi-Ka economics.

    Let us presume the based on a conservative estimation made by Trouser that Omni Tek has 325000 employees on Rubi Ka.

    Now lets consider their basic needs.

    The cheapest piece of food I could find was a Bronto Burger for 28 credits. The cheapest drink was Bottled Fresh Water for 8 credits.
    Let us presume that an employee eats only 3 Bronto Burgers a day and drinks 3 Bottled Waters. Aditionaly let us presume that every employee visits a surgery clinic 4 times a month for to cover all his health related requirements. A single visit costs 300 credits.

    That means that 325000 employees would spend in a month 819 million credits on Burgers alone. And 234 million credits on Bottled Waters if they ate and drank only 3 times a day. And they would spend another 390 million credits a month on medical care.

    That is a total of 1 billion 443 million credits spent by employees alone, on very conservative estimates on very modest basic needs.

    This estimate of the economy does not touch anything related to consumer goods or luxury goods (or for that matter a richer and more varied diet), and it does not touch anything related to augmentations (implants, nano technology).

    Now a few more data.

    If the Unicorn Company buys 200 pieces of alien technology per 4 million credits a piece every day, they spend 800 million credits a day on that and 2,4 billion credits a month. (Once more a conservative estimate.)

    Now let us make a few conservative assumptions. If employees spend 1443 million credits a month based on above assumptions let us presume they earn 4 times as much (for a decent lifestyle, not counting any bonuses that high risk or high value employees would earn) that would mean OT would pay out 5 billion 772 million credits on salaries a month. Add to that the 2.4 billion the Unicorn Company spends a month only on buying up alien technology.

    Now I appologise for the wall of data, but I had to do that in order for us to gain a small idea on how much exactly running Rubi Ka would cost Omni Tek. And how much money would they need to earn out of Notum commerce in order to make the income based on that atleast make up 30% of the companies income based on the knowledge that OT has 1 billion employees.

    If 325000 employees earn 5,772 billion credits a month, an employee would earn 17760 credits a month, OT would need to pay 17 trillion 760 billion credits a month just in salaries to 1 billion employees. (All these are VERY conservative estimates as you can see above!).

    Now one needs to consider, how much money does OT spend on construction, mining, terraforming, maintenance, research and development, shipping, security expenses and military spending on a galactic scale to get an idea of how big OT’s economy really is.

    When we take all these factors into account, you need to consider how much would Notum really worth in order to make up a significant proportion of the companies buissness.

    Now let us presume based on how big territories controlled by the Clans are, and the Clan overtake of 4 Holes and the fact that now the Clans hold over 80% of the ICC leased land control, we could estimate that the Clans mine atleast 50% of the Notum on the planet. If they sell it to Omni Tek at 30% of the market value of Notum, the amount of money the corporation loses would be still staggering. As actuall mining costs of the damn thing are maybe not more then a fraction percentage of its market value.

    Also every credit they lose in favour of the clans has a double backslash. Meaning if the Clans spend 1 out of every 3 credits they make on military hardware, OT would need to spend atleast 1.1 credits for every Clan credit to simply maintain its military position, not even to improve it much, as OT always held a military superiority.

    Land control in OT held territories also have additional implications. Every Control Tower is also a grid exit in OT territory, meaning OT would need to spend more and more and more money on simply monitoring all those grid exits. All these expenses simply add to the losses they already have on buying Notum from the Clans.

    Beyond all that it has serious political implications as well. Clans prove that on one hand they are more then capable to run the mining operations on the other hand they prove that they are also increasingly capable to confront OT militarily. It is only a matter of time until other hyper corporations who are capable to cover shipping expenses start pushing ICC to sell leases for shipping Notum from Rubi Ka. Considering that they could buy Notum from the Clans at VERY competitive prices.

    So OT is losing huge amounts of money on buying Notum from the Clans.
    OT is losing huge amounts of money on a escalating weapons race with the Clans.
    OT security levels are diminishing day by day with a ever increasing Clan presence pretty much every where on the planet.
    OT could be facing a political complications on a galactic level.

    Now because of how the ICC lease functions, it is unlikely that OT can simply roll in the military and try to fix it all for the its subdivisions that have been granted trust to handle the situation and whom are obviously failing.

    But one could expect that some “special” departments of OT would step up to shake things up abit and try to address the situation from above, with subtlety.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Alezander View Post

    [Brontonomics]

    So OT is losing huge amounts of money on buying Notum from the Clans.
    OT is losing huge amounts of money on a escalating weapons race with the Clans.
    OT security levels are diminishing day by day with a ever increasing Clan presence pretty much every where on the planet.
    OT could be facing a political complications on a galactic level.

    Now because of how the ICC lease functions, it is unlikely that OT can simply roll in the military and try to fix it all for the its subdivisions that have been granted trust to handle the situation and whom are obviously failing.

    But one could expect that some “special” departments of OT would step up to shake things up abit and try to address the situation from above, with subtlety.
    OT isn't losing money from buying Notum from the Clans. They're making less than if they mined it themselves, but it would still be a profit (not a loss).

    You're assuming OT is in an Arms races with the Clans, they're not*.

    The Clans mostly occupy the deserts. If you occupy something that no one cares about, are you really winning?

    *Omni-Tek could put down the vast majority of the Clans in a matter of the day by turning the warship batteries on the planet's surface. The ICC is forcing Omni-Tek to stay their hand. The Clans may be in an Arms Race to catch up to the opponent they're fighting who is standing on their knees, blindfolded with both arms tied behind their back, but if Omni-Tek were to have the leash taken off it would be a absolute Omni-Tek Victory.
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  11. #11
    ^^

    That guy's awful biased, isn't he?

  12. #12
    Yeah he is .

    Illusions of grandour make hated enemies so much more...adorable.

    As of Brotonomics

    I used it as a very very base reference to atempt to calculate some sort of economic data.

    Food is the absolute base product of all societies and thus the very root basis of their economy.
    To calculate minimum income we would always need to take into account how much money would people need to earn, to atleast feed themselves.

    So i have taken two base products, added base healtcare on a very hostile planet to it, and atempted to put some figures to the "power" of Omni Tek.

    Power can be always measured through the size of the economy. A gigantic economy will have a measurable power projection capacity. I am not trying to lessen OT's power, or influence here. All i am saying that considering base costs of living on Rubi Ka. And the fact that one small planet is producing gargantuan amounts of profit, absolutely disproportional to its population, probably producing more then hundreds of millions of OT employees in other parts of the galaxy togheter, means that even 1% loss would be a huge amount. More then maybe the worth of an entire planet in some other part of the galaxy.

    And any and all type of reduction of income with increase in spending is a loss, economicaly speaking. Spending less and earning more is economic growth. Any time you earn less or your profit increases slower than its full potential you are at loss economicaly speaking. Especialy when we are talking about the summs that Rubi Ka is producing.

    And you just said it yourself. Omni Tek is forced to play by the rules set by ICC. The amount of assets it can deploy is restricted. The amount of force it can exercise is limited. Meaning to maintain security and profitability in its given situation it would need to invest into alternate routes of action. That means spending. Any money you spend if its not necessary is an economic loss. Omni Tek is Omni Tek because throught the ages it knew how to play the numbers game. It did not become what it is through brute force, but through inovation, cunning, sound management and subtelty.

    I do not believe that the real higher ups would like to look at a statistic while having their morning coffe, that today they "lost" enough money that they could have maybe bought an entire planet with it. They would demand the situation to be adressed.

  13. #13
    You make a good point. You should all be destroyed. In the name of Profit
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  14. #14
    Just another little thought for my fellow Econ-nerds.... but who says that the Clans and OT both have the same costs to mine? Stands to reason that OT would have more regulations, safety protocols, back up systems, and nicer (more expensive) equipment to maintain.

    In terms of import clothing what it costs Mexico or China to produce at the same quality level is very different than it would be for other places. (Which is why they export textiles like crazy.) It actually improves the profit margin for the companies that do business with them to buy what they mass produce verses contracting out custom or doing it themselves.

    Anywho... carry on.
    President - Shattered Dreams- Rimor

  15. #15
    Fali, keep in mind this is also a rare, and controlled mineral like diamonds ( diamonds aren't that rare though :P)

    The cost of notum is pretty much up to Omni. Clan could very well charge that same price. ( speculation)

    However some clans did smuggle notum off world too. To make the deal sweet they have to charge less then omni, but more the omni would pay the clans.

    Ether way, Omni-tek is not happy with the bottomline. But either not enough to outright attack the north or the attack would be bad for the public image.
    Point Blank

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Alezander View Post
    A few things on Rubi-Ka economics.

    The cheapest piece of food I could find was a Bronto Burger for 28 credits. The cheapest drink was Bottled Fresh Water for 8 credits.


    That means that 325000 employees would spend in a month 819 million credits on Burgers alone. And 234 million credits on Bottled Waters if they ate and drank only 3 times a day.
    burgers are rarely the cheapest piece of food.. and with the water, i bet the container has more production cost than the actual water.

    if we cut down the packing materials and change small containers to bigger units i figure we can do that in 1/3rd of the estimated cost above.

    you can test this with buying 3 burgers and bottled water each day vs making the food yourself (and in masses)
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Otansaanpas View Post
    burgers are rarely the cheapest piece of food.. and with the water, i bet the container has more production cost than the actual water.

    if we cut down the packing materials and change small containers to bigger units i figure we can do that in 1/3rd of the estimated cost above.

    you can test this with buying 3 burgers and bottled water each day vs making the food yourself (and in masses)
    Trust me, i am not a fan of fast food.

    But we are talking about the game enviorment here. I have taken the cheapest pieces of stuff i could find ingame. There is no hint that people on Rubi Ka cook much to be honest. Not see many kitchens around ;P.

    But i guess one could explain this by saying that food grown on Rubi Ka is not really edible for humans without the adequate pre processing. Which all in all would not be that shocking considering the rampant mutation and the hostility of the enviorment.

    Altough i am sure that beating a leet to death and frying it on a stick would be much more economic.

  18. #18
    An interesting thing about the RK economy:

    Omni-Tek on Rubi-Ka seems to be suffering heavily from Resource Curse. They have been mining and exporting Notum exclusively for 700 years and have had very little reason to develop a middle class.

    So, while from an external point of view, their GDP will be extremely high and they will seem to be doing well, internally the employees will get poorer and poorer. So we begin to see slums appear in Omni-1, the richest place on the planet.

    That situation breeds conflict and speratism, hence the worker's union rebellion and the neutral break-off.

    Once the clans and neutrals started legally mining notum, then it would give Omni-Tek a better chance to develop a middle class in a trade market with the new powers. OTRK's overall GDP would fall once they start buying notum rather than mining. But the average income of the OT employees would start rising, their life quality would start increasing and the slums start diminishing.

    The good for the average employee would be limited since they don't have a free market to exploit, but they would still be able to find more work in the new trade industries rather than the previous limited job markets of pretty much just bureaucrat or miner.

    So my theory is that clans or neutrals having a large portion of the tower sites would be good for the average employee, but bad as far as Omni-Prime is concerned.
    Last edited by Redesine; Aug 30th, 2011 at 11:56:20.
    Advisor of Lumen Orien

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Falikos View Post
    Stands to reason that OT would have more regulations, safety protocols, back up systems, and nicer (more expensive) equipment to maintain.
    Although it was OT's disregard of regulations and safety procedures that started this whole affair, so I wouldn't bet that they are too concerned about it now.

    Also, when you say "nicer (more expensive) equipment" you should be using the word "Atrox", thats the correct definition after all used by OT scum.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanana View Post

    Also, when you say "nicer (more expensive) equipment" you should be using the word "Atrox", thats the correct definition after all used by OT scum.
    Oh common, "they're just Atrox"
    (I had to, sorry :P )
    Point Blank

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