Funcom really does have this whole thing ass-backwards. What they should be doing is coming up with ways that will minimize the impact of raising tradeskills (re: LESS IP SPENT overall) across the whole of the game, and preserve the open-endedness of AO in the process, instead of destroying it by forcing a single profession to fill that role.
Because Race Yalm
I dunno. I'm a tradeskiller at heart, but after becoming a master architect in SWG (at the expense of having enough combat abilities to do my daily harvesting chores, surviving attacks in my own home, etc.) and having to do a complete respec on my engineer in AO, I will never again gimp my combat abilities for tradeskills.Originally Posted by Anarchic1
So I don't have a lot of combat gear that buffs tradeskills. I selected my combat gear to buff MC, TS, and the like. I've played other MMOs where they changed the important stats of classes/professions, but failed to change the gear, so I don't have high hopes here. The last time that happened, in EQ2, the stat change was combined with a level cap increase and a new expansion with lots of new gear, so the old gear was obsolete anyway. But I don't get the impression that will happen here. And even in EQ2, it still contains old class specific gear not matching the new stats. Come to think of it, since most of my gear is not profession specific, they can't really change my gear to match the new stats without messing up other professions wearing the same gear.
This also reminds me of the time in DAoC where an impending nerf had been announced for my profession/class very early in the game. I ran around doing tradeskill quests for weeks waiting for it to happen (fortunately, tradeskills didn't use the same skill system as combat), fearful of increasing combat levels, before I finally quit the game, never to go back again, but was probably one of the richest level 5 toons ever at the time.
I'm kinda doing that again with my engineer, except I'm not avoiding levels, just avoiding spending any effort to get gear that doesn't have tradeskill buffs on them. Oh well, I guess it's mostly implants, which we can make, or symbiants, which have both (too bad for the froobs, I guess). Guess I should try to find something better than Miy's Nano armor anyway.
Last edited by Tommara3; Nov 24th, 2011 at 05:33:41.
Good point. Engineers should not be the only ones who can tradeskill effectively.
It's nonsense to think that other professions won't be able to tradeskill effectively because engis are being forced to use Tskills for nanos, etc...
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Not if you look at "effectiveness" relatively. When tradeskills are required for an engi's toolset in place of nanoskills, the engineer doesnt make any sacrifices. A trader wanting to solo with an RE/Shotgun setup will end up short on IP to max tradeskills. Traders wont really be effective tradeskillers, they would merely have that route as an option.
Hey, maybe we'd end up with enough spare IP to put some in the horror that is psychology. *shudders*
RK2
Krishina: Omni Engineer, 100/10
Traders ALREADY are in that situation and TS traders exist now. Furthermore, engis with tradeskills has no impact on how other professions want to spend their IP. It's simply not a factor.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
You have a 220 trader, and 220 engi. Why raise the tradeskills on trader when its already a requirement for engis? but yeah yeah, its already like that.
The status quo apparently is not working, hence the proposed change.
As a long time tradeskiller in every MMO I've ever played, I find it absurd that I am forced to play an engineer in AO if I want to be any good at tradeskilling.
The proposed changes make it even worse.
That's simply not true and you know it ... you can be a good tradeskiller as a trader now and after rebalance. Saying otherwise doesn't just make it a fact. The tradeskilling traders I know aren't just figments of my imagination and nothing I have seen in re-balance makes me think that they won't be able to tradeskill when it's implemented either.
Last edited by Obtena; Nov 28th, 2011 at 05:38:13.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
So really, your point is only relevant for those people that have a 220 trader and a 220 engi after rebalance? How many people is that? It's not alot. You're making this 'enforced' tradeskills thing sound alot bigger than it really is.
Last edited by Obtena; Nov 28th, 2011 at 05:42:21.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Im not making it big, im showing it exists. Engineers will gain an edge in tradeskilling, this edge would make other tradeskillers(err, trader) less effective in comparison.
doesnt have to be 220 either. I have a trader as my TSer, I'll be using my engi after rebalance (and after some levels) so my trader can max evades/MA skills.
I mean, fixers have better tradeskills than most professions, but you dont see any fixer TSers. Noone has IP for all tradeskills and combat skills. Traders get away with it because theyre all stereotyped as gimps anyway, engis get away with it because all they really do is dish out tons of damage so they can slack on defense. Engis are going to have the IP now. Simple as that.
I know plenty of engis who have trader tskill slaves. They're better at it than engis, plus they can wr0ngl0rpl0x.
Waiting for a cure.
Also they can calm missions, gms anywhere for free, and sell shopfood!
New Engine - Announced: June 2007 ETA: Soon™ I'm speechless (June 2015)
Rebalancing - Announced: January 2009 ETA: December 21, 2012 Started! (April 2015)
New TL7 Pets - Announced: March 2009 ETA: Uh...
AS Changes - Announced: July 2009 ETA: TBA
Parry/Riposte - Announced: October 2009 ETA: ??? Did it! (April 2015)
Perk Changes - Announced: October 2009 ETA: Right after server merge Started! (April 2015)
Breed Change - Announced: November 2009 ETA: Hell freezing They did it!!! (Oct 2012)
Beta Server - Announced: January 2010 ETA: Pigs Flying Did it! (Feb 2014)
It will NOT. A trader that tradeskills will be able to continue making the same items in the future as they are NOW. All engi's having tradeskills does not influence what a trader can and cannot tradeskill. A trader's effectiveness in tradeskilling is NOT affected by engis having tradeskills nor is it affected by the number of engi's with tradeskills, even if that number of engi's is 100%. That's simply nonsense.
Last edited by Obtena; Nov 29th, 2011 at 16:31:09.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Agreed.
Current traders wont see a problem, but if it would inefficient, if one was to make a TS toon, to make a trader. The trader wouldnt be able to make anything till TL5 anyway (unless you AFKed your levels) and at higher levels you would be make that toon purely dedicated to tradeskills, and the PVM/PVP playability will suffer. Yes you can tradeskill as effectively as a trader, but its not as efficient as an engi. The engi could do PvM/PvP and tradeskill all to the fullest effectiveness, traders cant. Take it as a win if you want, but who cares if toons can tradeskill effectively. What matters is that the toon is effective, and that tradeskilling is efficient.
Sorry, I don't get it ... so you're are actually saying that a engi can PVM/PVP and tradeskill to full effectiveness but any other profession can't and somehow, that's a bad thing for engis? Um, OK. I don't have a response to that because it's nonsense. If anything, that's a complaint from any profession that ISN'T an engi, and the one closest in line to do that, being traders, aren't actually QQing about it. Like I said .... your making a bigger problem than it is.
Last edited by Obtena; Nov 30th, 2011 at 21:47:39.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Im saying your right. They are equally effective at tradeskilling, its not gonna change. Im now saying that engis will just be more efficient, thats what really matters, and the point that other people are making. Effectiveness and efficiency are different. Traders, engis, hell probably fixers even could all tradeskill everything. Engis are the only ones who wont have to sacrifice for being a TS toon. Traders would be deemed inefficient as TS toons.
OK, even if it is less efficient, again the impact is almost nothing and also of no concern to engi's anyways. Why is non-engi tradeskillers even a discussion in a thread about engis and rebalance if some engis aren't trying to use it to justify their own position with the engi profession? It's just not relevant.
Last edited by Obtena; Dec 1st, 2011 at 21:37:21.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Because I don't think it's fair to other professions and will be bad for the game generally. I have no interest in being an engineer other than tradeskilling, so your assumptions are incorrect. You are attributing your own motivations to other people.
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