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Thread: Why balance is futile

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    The only professions who should require AS are agents, rifle soldiers, or ranged adventurers (using the leet/sneak morph and not allowed in a defensive morph of course).
    Ranged advy? Advy? AS on advy is overkill. AS on pistols is an abomination.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    You said you disagreed with me but the majority of the things you state in order to achieve balance involve removing things from professions.
    I only agree on removing bandaids that FC added to make some profs more viable in pvp. Those bandaids corrupt the very essence of every prof, paving the way to cookiecutter setups and dissolving the variety. Because... who would play a toon in suboptimal modus? Apart from orgteams or orgraids, where would someone get teams if he doesn't have the better setup?
    220 opi RK1 keeper § 220 opi RK1 Doc § 220 opi RK2 Fixer
    Quote Originally Posted by Enno Rehling View Post
    We usually call it WTF.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Ranged advy? Advy? AS on advy is overkill. AS on pistols is an abomination.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    (also on a related note lolwtf why do shotguns have as, except the craphander because I actually like the idea of an smg and a shotgun dual wielded)
    Otaku - Teh Main!!! - 220 Fixer (Needs money)
    Dochelm - Teh Healer!!! - Doctor (WTB ADO HECK TEAM PST)
    Nikkiibenz - Teh Pr0nstar!!! - Soldier (Bein' sexy)
    Notyourtank - Teh TotW Beast!!! - Keeper (Needs moar money)
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    I see a slight problem with people wearing Xan armor on top of their Xan implants and their Xan belt and Xan NCUs while toting around their Xan weapon(s)...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Ranged advy? Advy? AS on advy is overkill. AS on pistols is an abomination.
    Stop trolling and read what I said. Just call it Marksman Shot and suddenly you have no argument, because the post-balance AS is nothing like the current AS. Offensive focused setups that give up defenses require offensive abilities. Regardless of the name ranged adventurers will have one.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Stop trolling and read what I said. Just call it Marksman Shot and suddenly you have no argument, because the post-balance AS is nothing like the current AS. Offensive focused setups that give up defenses require offensive abilities. Regardless of the name ranged adventurers will have one.
    I'm not entirely sure I'd count something that has an activation period as a staple "offensive ability", since if you're really going for offense (imo) you'd want more attacks that are instant and give you no down-time. You'd be a little off to sacrifice most of your defenses if you're going to use an ability that would most likely require some to protect you while you fire off a slower, imo more support oriented attack. Though I guess maybe advies will be able to handle it, unless they Actually get nerfed to the point where they struggle with surviving ridiculous odds. I've never played an advy, so maybe being mega op is actually quite skill based, but Most of the ones I've fought seem to be Very difficult to kill, let alone half, and something tells me not Everyone is That good.
    Otaku - Teh Main!!! - 220 Fixer (Needs money)
    Dochelm - Teh Healer!!! - Doctor (WTB ADO HECK TEAM PST)
    Nikkiibenz - Teh Pr0nstar!!! - Soldier (Bein' sexy)
    Notyourtank - Teh TotW Beast!!! - Keeper (Needs moar money)
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    I see a slight problem with people wearing Xan armor on top of their Xan implants and their Xan belt and Xan NCUs while toting around their Xan weapon(s)...

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Stop trolling and read what I said.
    Yes please stop trolling and read what I said.

    AS on advy is overkill, AS on pistols is an abomination. How you can make an aimed shot one handed will never make sense to me.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

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    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Yes please stop trolling and read what I said.

    AS on advy is overkill, AS on pistols is an abomination. How you can make an aimed shot one handed will never make sense to me.
    Also this^

    Realistically speaking there's no way a .44 could match the power from a .50, and I highly doubt All of the pistols in the game are "using" .44 rounds, so rationally speaking, using an FA makes sense cause it's the entire clip at once, but one bullet that could almost match the damage? Ridiculous.

    Little disclaimer: So I may not be 100% accurate, but I'm simply making up a little example here. I'd like to see a handgun match the power of a sniper rifle that's essentially in the same "tier" of weaponry. Imo, doesn't sound very possible, unless people like broken wrists.
    Last edited by AyyRawn; Feb 20th, 2012 at 02:33:29.
    Otaku - Teh Main!!! - 220 Fixer (Needs money)
    Dochelm - Teh Healer!!! - Doctor (WTB ADO HECK TEAM PST)
    Nikkiibenz - Teh Pr0nstar!!! - Soldier (Bein' sexy)
    Notyourtank - Teh TotW Beast!!! - Keeper (Needs moar money)
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    I see a slight problem with people wearing Xan armor on top of their Xan implants and their Xan belt and Xan NCUs while toting around their Xan weapon(s)...

  8. #48
    All good discussion..

    How to fix aimed shot:

    if Profession==agent, Future AS==Current AS+2 second activation time, Future AS==current Fling Shot+30% critical modifier)

    Fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarsolace
    This idea kills 2 forum trolls with one hamster.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by AyyRawn View Post
    Realistically speaking there's no way a .44 could match the power from a .50, and I highly doubt All of the pistols in the game are "using" .44 rounds, so rationally speaking, using an FA makes sense cause it's the entire clip at once, but one bullet that could almost match the damage? Ridiculous.

    Little disclaimer: So I may not be 100% accurate, but I'm simply making up a little example here. I'd like to see a handgun match the power of a sniper rifle that's essentially in the same "tier" of weaponry. Imo, doesn't sound very possible, unless people like broken wrists.
    But AO is in the year 29485, we can't even begin to comprehend the sophistication of hand held weaponry so far in the future ^^
    Manicmouse AR SMGs - 220/30 Clan Solitus Soldier - General of New Order
    Lawmaker Pistols - 220/30 Clan Atrox Bureaucrat | Sellyoursoul Shotgun - 220/30 Clan Nanomage Trader
    Adiee Pistols - 220/30 Clan Solitus Doctor | Boltcutter MA - 220/30 Clan Atrox Engineer | Anorexia - 220/30 Clan Nanomage Enforcer

    Lazy: the caste system of ao today is clan > omni > wildlife > neuts.

    Gatester: Crats have the best toolset for supporting a team in PVE.
    Aramsunat: WRONG! The team supports the crat if the crat is unable to solo (which is rare)!

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Manicmouse View Post
    But AO is in the year 29485, we can't even begin to comprehend the sophistication of hand held weaponry so far in the future ^^
    But all guns are hand held tho...
    Otaku - Teh Main!!! - 220 Fixer (Needs money)
    Dochelm - Teh Healer!!! - Doctor (WTB ADO HECK TEAM PST)
    Nikkiibenz - Teh Pr0nstar!!! - Soldier (Bein' sexy)
    Notyourtank - Teh TotW Beast!!! - Keeper (Needs moar money)
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    I see a slight problem with people wearing Xan armor on top of their Xan implants and their Xan belt and Xan NCUs while toting around their Xan weapon(s)...

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by AyyRawn View Post
    But all guns are hand held tho...
    Yes but in 2012 we have homing smart bullets, so surely there will better stuff in the future!
    Manicmouse AR SMGs - 220/30 Clan Solitus Soldier - General of New Order
    Lawmaker Pistols - 220/30 Clan Atrox Bureaucrat | Sellyoursoul Shotgun - 220/30 Clan Nanomage Trader
    Adiee Pistols - 220/30 Clan Solitus Doctor | Boltcutter MA - 220/30 Clan Atrox Engineer | Anorexia - 220/30 Clan Nanomage Enforcer

    Lazy: the caste system of ao today is clan > omni > wildlife > neuts.

    Gatester: Crats have the best toolset for supporting a team in PVE.
    Aramsunat: WRONG! The team supports the crat if the crat is unable to solo (which is rare)!

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Yes please stop trolling and read what I said.

    AS on advy is overkill, AS on pistols is an abomination. How you can make an aimed shot one handed will never make sense to me.
    I read that overused nonsense comment you made, and now I am reading this comment where you think anything that makes no sense to you should not be introduced.

    Since things make no sense to you there is no point arguing with you as you will not understand. We are talking about completely different things, you are stuck on pre-balance AS and I am referring to post-balance adventurers and the need for offensive abilities in offensive setups, so obviously we cannot have a discussion if you are on a completely different level of understanding.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    you are stuck on pre-balance AS
    I don't see anything in any of his posts that signals he's "stuck" on pre-balance AS.

    Also I'm curious if you read my reply to your earlier post or not, I'd like to read your opinion on that.
    Otaku - Teh Main!!! - 220 Fixer (Needs money)
    Dochelm - Teh Healer!!! - Doctor (WTB ADO HECK TEAM PST)
    Nikkiibenz - Teh Pr0nstar!!! - Soldier (Bein' sexy)
    Notyourtank - Teh TotW Beast!!! - Keeper (Needs moar money)
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    I see a slight problem with people wearing Xan armor on top of their Xan implants and their Xan belt and Xan NCUs while toting around their Xan weapon(s)...

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Offensive focused setups that give up defenses require offensive abilities. Regardless of the name ranged adventurers will have one.
    Well I wasn't focused on pre-post balance at all. I said pistols with AS make no sense. As far as advy are concearned every setup for advy is defensive and offensive. Find me a single advy that doesnt have coon/evade perks. Thats defensive. Find me a single advy that doesnt have sneak attack/fast/brawl or fling/burst/AS.. maybe even full auto on top. Thats very offensive. Therefore ALL advy have best of both worlds already...add in second best heals in game on top. Thats in case you didnt realize that advy have the best defensive perks AND best offensive attacks avail in any setup. But this wasn't about how nasty OP advy are, it's about the silly idea that a pistol should have AS in first place.

    Before you are so quick to being negative about something I post maybe you should pay attention and read what it is you are being negative about.
    Last edited by Psikie; Feb 21st, 2012 at 00:37:35.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    it's about the silly idea that a pistol should have AS in first place.
    Why is it silly?
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Notcrattey View Post
    Why is it silly?
    Forget the year AO is in. Now, imagine it's 1942, and you're young Russian living on the outskirts of Stalingrad. Your father has passed away, and, one of two possessions he has left you is a heavy fur coat. The other is a bolt action Mosin-Nagant rifle - standard issue for Russian snipers in the second world war.

    The German army is situated on the east bank of the Volga River, with Italian and Romanian troops guarding their flanks. The Germans have bombed the **** out of Stalingrad prior to the invasion, and you, swearing allegiance to your deceased father, and Mother Russia, set off to fight the Germans.

    The winter is coming but you know the language, and you know your camerades will provide what they can. The Germans, however, will not be so lucky.

    You goal is to find a location where you can see movement of German troops across the Volga River. At a distance of 400 yards, the building you have chosen is directly across from a small German command post.

    You choose the 6th floor and you position yourself in the lower left of a window that has a been partially smashed. It is cold but you know it's colder outside. This position is a good one and it will only be a matter of time before you will see the commander.

    You are a skilled rifleman. Your father was a good man and taught you to shoot in the forest close to your home. You could pick off deer, from 350 yards, in the dead of winter with nearly no feeling in your hands. This, you think, will be no different.

    Each day you arrive on the sixth floor with a small packet of biscuits, some pemmican and flask of water. Your comerade has shown you the badge that the German commander wears. It is not your goal to kill the German infantry. It is your goal to kill the commander. It only requires one shot.

    It is four days before you see your target. He is slightly taller than the other men, slender, and he wears his hat perked up, as though he is unaware of the winter hardships for him in store. Most of those men, across the Volga, have never been this far north. Their jackets, their boots, are not made for the wrath of Mother Russia's cruel winter. You know he will die warm, well before winter arrives.

    You will put a bullet through his neck and the blood will be warm in his hands. He will die before winter freezes his bones.

    The scope on this rifle is set back towards the butt which means that your head position can be higher. This also means you can watch your target without your scope, then immediately duck down - while keeping the barrel steady. You watch his movements, he is looking at a map, and talking with two men of lower rank. You will execute him before he is able to make his command known. His movements are jerky, you can tell, he is hungry. His movements are the way that animals in the forest are, when the snow has fallen and there is little to eat. When his movements are slower, he is an easier target. You wait. Instinctively, you know that he has cigarettes. Cigarettes make men slower, you can see it in their eyes, and hear it in their words. You have watched your father and his friends play cards. The vodka helps, but, the cigarettes work wonders.

    A faint orange glow protrudes from near his face. In 45 seconds, the nicotine will his his bloodstream, and his body will loosen, the grip of hungry easing. You release the safety.

    You slip the finger cover from your glove, the trigger is smooth and cold. The commander blows gray smoke over the head of his junior officer.

    The crack of your rifle shatters the silence, and the commander falls backwards, the cigarette still glowing, but his hands are clutching his chest. The shot was 4 inches lower than where you aimed. It is still a fatal shot, but, he will not die for a few hours. He may forget to issue his command you think.

    Tomorrow, you will adjust your rifle, and make sure that it shoots where you want it to.

    That is a snipe shot.

    A pistol does not do that.
    Last edited by Hotdog; Feb 22nd, 2012 at 05:55:40.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarsolace
    This idea kills 2 forum trolls with one hamster.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by hotdog View Post
    ...
    +1.
    Otaku - Teh Main!!! - 220 Fixer (Needs money)
    Dochelm - Teh Healer!!! - Doctor (WTB ADO HECK TEAM PST)
    Nikkiibenz - Teh Pr0nstar!!! - Soldier (Bein' sexy)
    Notyourtank - Teh TotW Beast!!! - Keeper (Needs moar money)
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    I see a slight problem with people wearing Xan armor on top of their Xan implants and their Xan belt and Xan NCUs while toting around their Xan weapon(s)...

  18. #58
    At least in star wars, to get an aimed shot off, you have to:

    1. Be crouching
    2. FACING THE TARGET!!!!!!
    3. aim for 2.5 seconds (possible to reduce by 1 second)
    4. NOT GET INTERUPTED
    5. Target still be in range and in LOS at the time of execution

    Those really aren't all that absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarsolace
    This idea kills 2 forum trolls with one hamster.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by hotdog View Post
    at least in star wars
    ...
    -1
    Otaku - Teh Main!!! - 220 Fixer (Needs money)
    Dochelm - Teh Healer!!! - Doctor (WTB ADO HECK TEAM PST)
    Nikkiibenz - Teh Pr0nstar!!! - Soldier (Bein' sexy)
    Notyourtank - Teh TotW Beast!!! - Keeper (Needs moar money)
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    I see a slight problem with people wearing Xan armor on top of their Xan implants and their Xan belt and Xan NCUs while toting around their Xan weapon(s)...

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Notcrattey View Post
    Why is it silly?
    If a single hand held pistol can have AS, why not smg/grenade/heavy weapon? At least most of those are balanced by 2 hands and can actually fit a scope on.

    If you think a laser sight counts as aiming I can even give you that stretch, but then you should be able to strap a laser pointer on to any ranged weapon.

    Assault rifles should have AS before pistols. Most rifles allow for a scope enhancement anyway. Just doesn't make sense to me to have pistols with AS but not assault rifles.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

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