Undo the Init. Fix

[edmaster]

This is simple request, undo the init fix where you made the mobs harder to debuff and made the, hit faster. No offense but i doubt making things hard to get in a decline game is a good idea.

Especially when you make lvl 300 already hard quest bosses harder, for example the informant quest.
Certain professions CANNOT!! get into most random raids like mitaar or dust instances so we depend in others to farm and sell to us. But if you make it harder for others to farm you hurt everyone.

If you dont fix the init fix then at least make vp easier to get solo. Its suck not being able to get any high lvl armour without luck to get a team.
This could be a good reason why combined is so expensive, you get get any other armour easily, so just get combined.

Ofab is the fix to high prices

[Dollcet]

Edmaster i normally have a high level of Sympathy for Newcomers but this is just a bloody Rant with no detailed Suggestion whatsoever :

"No offense but i doubt making things hard to get in a decline game is a good idea."
Ever thought about how the Veterans feel if you make obtaining ultimate Equip even more easy ? Look in the Forums there are allready too many moaning that many Aspects of the Game are too easy / boring .


"Certain professions CANNOT!! get into most random raids.... "
I Know that Problem ( Main MA ) its a sad State but i dont see Funcom fixing that soon , this is what Friends and Orgs are for , to help eachother and have Fun where the simple /LFT wont work.


"at least make vp easier to get solo."
They are allready easy to get now due to Dailys , show some endurance and you soon have all the Parts you need .


"could be a good reason why combined is so expensive "
Combined is mostly expensive because of absolute horrible droprates not because the Generals are too hard to kill . On average i find 1 Lead Viralbot every 15-20 Groundraids (10% droprate my Ass , never was that lucky) with 6 Different Bots thats a lot of Time to obtain a Supple/Strong .. why the Hell would anyone sell this cheap ?


"Ofab is the fix to high prices"
No it is not ! Only a few Professions have OFAB good enough to really wear in many Slots while other wear 2 , 1 or not even a single Piece of OFAB in a Endgame PvP or PvM Setup .

[Lonely]

Generally the init fix they applied havent really brought raiding or pvming to a halt, raids still happen, and my advice would be to start your own team or ask around in your help for help. Though on a level I agree with edmaster, due to mainly the huge change if mob difficulty since the nerf, that required toons with more expensive gear to tackle them rather than the gimper toon pre nerf. I havent personally seen informant as being that much harder if done with a standard raid team, but I have realized that other endgame bosses are affected more by the init fix than others. Such as the Apf 28 boss and vortexx, not only do they hit you faster fully debuffed, but they hit you twice (which I believe does with them being multi-weild), such as with vortexx meleeing you followed instantly by a projectile shot. The only mob I found that I could not kill with a standard full team of endgame toons was the stunning dreadloch (hits you twice almost every 3s fully debuffed). I believe these endgame dual weild mobs should be looked into and possibly adjusted.

Also VP is not hard to earn, especially with the VP dailies.

[edmaster]

Sorry Dollcet, but I am not a newcomer. Been in ao for 7 years straight and have multiple 220s, but I do deal with newcomers a lot.

1. AO always have 2 choices cater to the vets who will always be unhappy with everything. Or help the game so newcomers will come and want to stay. They always choose Vets. Things were not more easy they made it harder, this doenst affect the vets as they see no change only the new people will suffer.

2. For the friends/org to work. You actualyl need to make friends with 220 alts or join a high lvl raiding org. Meaning you should not make friends who only play for fun, or try start your own org or join fun lower lvl orgs.

3. and 4. Only vets care that combined prices are high the average player dosent. Ofab is the answer to the Armour problem. ofab is not the best armour but it gives nice ac untill you can get something better. If ofab is so easy to get now making about 2k a day how long will it take to get a full set of the armor with dailies?

Ao obviously only care about vets. So let it come to a slow end. Changing the inits will not change anything to a vet btw, they just grab there usual raid friends and get what they want.

[Dollcet]

*sigh*

Reading this i dont really believe you been around for 7 years but anyway .....

The real Problem these Days is not the Hardness of Encounters but the Mentality of many Players ( Both Vets and Newcomers ) when it comes to Leveling AND Funcom still not pulling the Plug on Outsidetanks .

It all starts with a New Player stumbeling out of the Backyards into the wide World of AO asking for a Team in OOC or discovering and using /lft ............

Most Vets want to level their Twinks fast taking the shortest least Timeconsuming and easy Route , Newcomers try to Copy that Behavior or simply get attached to a Vet of their Org or by beeing on LFT when a Vet wants to fill up a Nascence Crippler/Heckteam.
Nascence is a easy Place but the Vet wants to speed up the Process of leveling so often the Newcomer in his Team will observe duallogged outsidebuffing like Soldier Dmg-Aura every 10 Minutes ,orthe Classic MP-Healpet for the Tank or even see the First Doc/Enfo Outsidetank at the Hecks of Core/2Mountains and ever so often it gets topped of with a NT to max the Speed ....

Soon the Veteran will skip to Elysium and at the Beach or P7 the Newbie sees Outsidetanks again , later the Group get to Kitehill and once again Outsidetanks and NT are boosting the Exp-Gain below a Newcomers wildest Dreams ... quite addictive .
While a Vet mostly has the Ressources to Equip a Powerleveled Toon almost every new Main clearly lacks , he realises that but the Oppurtunity for fast Levels is just too tempting to pass by.....

Sadly when both leave Elysium and head to Adonis the Newcomer still does not see the full Impact of this outdated Equip because even most Ado-Heck teams these Days have a damn OutsideTank , as long as he has a halfway decent weapon he will get invited into such Teams again and again ...

Some other day our Newcomer gets lucky ( or so he thinks ) because leveling in Adonis gets old to a Vet and he spawns a Icegolem and either sells the Molars to make Profit or Free for Grabs because the Newcomer is Orgmate or because he does hate so see Stuff decay.
Our Ride continues in Inferno where Vets get 220 Friends or duallog to Pull Easys .. often filling up the Team with random Newbies if no Orgmate/Friend is interested.

Congratz just because we filled up our Powerleveling Teams again and again with Randoms or invited very new Orgmates we now have Level 200+ Newcomers who never saw much of AO besides the leveling Part , never had to really Tank/Heal/Calm/DD because of Veteran Toons taking Care of those Functions ....
The Equipment of these dragged along Newcomers is often so bad by the Time they are 200+ they still would have trouble forming a functioning Heckteam in Ado ...

*FACEPALM*

Now the Newcomers somehow struggle to 210 and are allowed to Zergbots ... do 1-2 Raids and try to bid a Item ... Suprise Suprise the Vets have more Points and Outbid them ..........
The Newcomer asks his Org about raiding here and there and the Org declines because the Vets allready got their Stuff ,and are busy leveling their next Twink .
Now our Newcomer does not really know the Raid besides " Stick with Bloob" "Use assist " ( because thats all Zergbots really teach )but still tries to join private Raids by " /lft DB1,2,3/TNH/DREAD " . Either he gets the ussual " Log Enfo/Doc/Soldier/Crat/Shade please we dont need anyone else " or he because of his lack of Equip and Knowledge he cant live up to the Expectations and wont get a second Invite unless somebody takes pitty on him .

His Main pretty much stuck he starts on a Twink and the whole Cycle begins again and he soon finds his Main unable to camp/find/affort the needed Twinking Items and leaves the Game ..........

This is where the AO Community and Funcom FAILS !


---------------------------

When i came to Atlantean i allready had 4 220s but i did look for Orgs with my 130ish Froob-MP and joining the first Org that awnsered "OMNI-SF", they got the whole Package of Toons because they cared enough to invite a potentially "useless Froob " , soon i had turned about half a dozen nice but clueless/underequipped mid-Level Mains into Players with decent Armor and Knowledge enough for real teamplay in Ely/Ado/Sec10/Ship&Ground-AI etc .

New Cityzone and Org-Pack finally came , i parted from OMNI-SF and until this December i was President of " Bad to the Bone " ( disband because of Inactivity ) .
Holding my Recruits back from going to Inferno before the Tokenboard was full and their Equip Decent enough to preform up to expectations in any Random Teams/Raids .
Did spend a lot of Time explaining AO to every Recruit and helping them obtaining Decent Armor ...... and this does NOT mean OFAB Head to Toe but meaningfull mixing it with Azure/Proactive/Keygerns/Beast/Dustbrigade/Alappa Pads .. showing them how to spawn Pocketbosses , giving allmost every single one Handmedowns from my Spawns if theirs werent sucessful ...
It started slow but we got Functioning Raids going , DB1 , DB2 , Dreads , Albtraum , Alappa , Sec28/35/13, TNH , Beast , Acecamp, Biodomes,12Man,Vortexx,Mitaar........ we had our Whipes sure but every Member finally knew its Profession Role and every Raid improved somebodys Equip .

Now i am a Member of "OMNI-RP" and " Hunters " ... once again i used a little Froob scouting for Org . this time a mere lvl17 Adv and once again i do my best to get these Orgs Raiding , explain Stuff .....

I been called " Idiot " for spending that much Time on "N00bs" by other Vets , Newcomers titeled me" Mother Theresa " , "True Angel of Rubi-Ka" and I mostly gotten Feedback along the Lines of "Dude you helped me in a few Hours more than anyone/my Org in half a Year/1Year/since i started the Game" . This Feedback and the mental Image of somebody on the other Side of Earth being happy because of my Actions is what keeps me going .
It´s sad to say this but judging by the Feedback too few Orgs truelly care for their new Players , many seem to think they help by just throwing Creds at them .....

Guys wake up AO is fantastic Game but the learning Curve is high , dont Powerlevel Mains with your Twinks and throw Creds at them just to get them out of your Hair but spend 1 damn lousy hour every other Playday sitting down with Newcomers and teaching them or helping them to obtain usefull Armor/Symbs/Weapons ........ You want AO alive and kicking for some more Time you better do this ´cause the frustrated Newcomers of today are SWTOR/WoW Players tommorrow !

YOU FUNCOM need to crack down on the Outsidetanks! The PvM Part of this Game deserves Overhaul , Players need to do real Teamplay again and for that to happen important Keyparts of the Equipment ( Tier-Armor , slighly weakend Symbiant Alternatives ) need to be obtainable at a difficulty Level a not to well played MAIN can reach ! Stop Makeing 2+ hour long Quests that need a full Team of allready twinked Toons or a Highlevel Supporter ! Only the most powerfull Equipment for those Levels or the Endgame should require such a Effort.

I know i am pretty much a outdated Fossil of better Times , a Don Quijote but i Hope i do set a example that at least some of those who recieve help from me will follow ....

[Boltgun]

^^^^ Billions of this.

Hecklers are the biggest error implemented to the game imo.

[Traderjill]

I think there's a bit of truth in most of the posts here. I think that the init 'fix' wasn't thought through. Yep, there are many people that have an easy time doing endgame content regardless but it did add an additional challenge for those that weren't playing in easy mode prior to the init 'fix'. I understand that Funcom has to fix bugs but I agree with the OP in that they should have then re-scaled mobs inits so that things didn't change much at all. I've raided pretty much all of the endgame content, several times, since the init change and I can indeed notice a difference. That doesn't mean that my teams have been wiping as a result because they haven't.. but as a doctor (maybe that's why I notice it?) I can see the change very clearly. In some playfields I notice the effect more than others.

But, that being said, a lot of the problem is Funcom. I don't buy the whole "blame the vets" thing. The moment that you start saying that it is the responsibility of another player to teach others in the game is where you go wrong. Put the blame and responsibility where it should be and that's on the game development staff. As a player, I log in to game to have fun. I choose to help new people and I do it more than most but I take offense at someone trying to pretend like that's my job or responsibility as a vet. The only thing that I 'should' be doing in game is having fun and taking care of my toons. Anything else that I do outside of that is an extra that should not be expected of me. Teaching a new player how to play and filling in ALL of the holes that exist in the game is a project of monumental proportion. Anyone that helps newbies knows this. You can literally spend hours upon hours explaining implants, tradeskilling, team dynamics. Who the heck has time to do that for multiple people and still actually get to play the game? I don't even like the low level portion of the game, to be honest. I prefer mid to endgame content. So no, I'm not spending all of my in-game time teaching people how to play.. no one did that for me and I figured it all out just fine. There are way more third party resources out there now than ever before and if someone can't be bothered to read those then why would I spend a lot of my time on them? I bend over backwards to help people that have taken their time to read guides, explore or experiment and then have questions to clarify what they've read. But someone brand new with the 'spoon feed me information because you're a vet' mentality won't get the time of day from me. The information grind in the game doesn't get all that better as you level up so if you start babying a player from day 1 then you'll be doing it damn near til they're 220. I'm not getting a paycheck from Funcom.

If Funcom provided a decent start for players and tweaked things so that teaming at low levels became the norm then a lot of the problems described by Dollcet would go away. There's some urban legend that all vets powerlevel their toons. I don't know how it got started or why but from my vantage point, the folks I see powerleveling are actually brand new to the game. Do you know how fast it is to level now, for a vet, as compared to back in 2004-2005? I want to say 10x faster is an understatement. What makes you think that folks that have played for many years and seen the type of leveling speed advancements that have taken place are the people powerleveling? You think its hard for a newbie to figure out that they can roll a NT and powerlevel and then pay someone to OST and charge team members for spots? This isn't rocket science. Anyway...

I just started playing SWTOR. It is a new game, so no veteran players. As a new player I can figure it out myself. I don't need someone else to devote their personal game playing time to siting with me and teaching me the basics of how to play. I explore and figure things out and for the most part it is either intuitive or they actually have an in-game knowledge base that you can search for answers to basic things like "How do I split a stack?" or "How do I train skills?" etc. That's the way it should be.

TLDR version: OP is right that Funcom's init fix without another fix on top of it was irresponsible. It is the same thing they did with S10. Fixed the bounties but umm.. where's the fix to the real problem? And yes, Dollcet is right about Funcom's responsibility regarding teaming. But I disagree with him placing any of the blame on vets .. they're just players still trying to keep the game fun for them too.

[Mastablasta]

So there was a noticable change? Maybe I'm just too uber.. Though of course I don't rely on any random groups or let AO ruin my day if I can't play right now.

[Traderjill]

So there was a noticable change? Maybe I'm just too uber.. Though of course I don't rely on any random groups or let AO ruin my day if I can't play right now.

Yep there was.. again, I notice it when playing my doctor because I'm healing. I have not noticed any change at all when playing any other toon except my trader when she is soloing because i'm having to fight a tad bit harder to accomplish the same effect when soloing inferno dyna bosses. So I do get why people that don't play healing professions have no idea that there was a change or effect. And the teams I've been 'playing doctor' on.. aren't unexperienced randoms either. Like I said, we didn't wipe.. didn't change anything for us.. but nevertheless I have to be open and state that I have noticed a change.

I don't think that change will matter for the experienced players. It could be raid-breaking for those that aren't in good setups or were already struggling with content completion prior to the fix though.. and I think that's probably who the OP is talking about.

Though to be completely honest, I noticed some rather weird mob behavior prior to the init fix.. and I'm not 100% sure whether what I have been experiencing with inferno dynas on my trader is that init fix or something else altogether. This game is buggy as hell. I've had mobs, that couldn't touch my trader, take her to 10% health in 10sec for some random reason... and this was before the init fix.

[Mastablasta]

Pretty sure you have to make some really big changes to accomplish breaking raids for gimps. We raided pande wearing implants, low ql symbs, tier armor, and whatever we could get from the SL dungeons and RK gear without AI perks and research and OFAB and so on. I think today we can take a bit extra difficulty at the base level. And gearing up is an adventure in itself, as much of it is easy to get to drop.

[edmaster]

Dollcet your last statement was correct, and I agree with you those are the problems. Since I always only join orgs that help new people and returnees to ao I depend on lft to get a team more than often i log my (now locked) doc account.

You propably know me as the Vp then pres of Conspiracy Group Inc.
Surprisingly playing froob is more enjoyable than the expansions.

Traderjill has it right. only Docs and a few others will actually notice a difference, since everyone else is mostly just DD they can complain that everything is easy, since they aren't tanking or healing. Mastablasta I hope you arent one of the just DD. But I am not talking about beast or pande I am talking about mitarr (already buggy enough to make it a challenge), db quest and db1-3.

All i am asking is that they at least change back the inits, for db1.-3, DB quest and mitarr.
If they feeling really friendly make a instance where to can farm vp even if its just running around killing things like s10 bounties.

[Kintaii]

Don't really need this thread in two locations - Please keep feedback to here: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=596106