Profession balance: The potential of the engineer

[Genie]

Using tradeskills to cast nanos: BAD IDEA!
Hopefully Im not the only one who thinks this. Its a bad idea because then you get a situation where one profession dont need to make the same investment to cast nanos as everyone else does. Thats not balance. In fact its quite the opposite.

Using tradeskills to build bots: GOOD IDEA!
Now this is something that makes sense, engineers building their robots using tradeskills instead of summoning them using nano skills.

From the start of AO I have always wondered why engineers summons their robots instead of building them. The answer is ofcourse that its much easier to implement a summon than creating a set of complicated tradeskill processes. But if Funcom opens up for this now then the engineer profession has a lot of potential for the future.

Here are some of my ideas:

[Genie]

1. Using basic robotic shells.
Instead of nanos for bots, we have a separate shop with basic robotic shells. These shells work like basic implants, and have "slots" in them where various "parts" needs to be inserted. Example of parts would be power supply, weapon module and android NCU. Robotic parts could be found in a separate tradeskill parts shop.

First you need to build the robotic shell by inserting the parts using tradeskills. Once you have a complete shell, you have to activate it, also using a tradeskill, to bring it to life. You now have an active robotic pet.

When the pet is destroyed (sustained so much damage that it deactivates), you act as a reclaim for the pet, and the shell spawns in your inventory. The shell needs some time to repair itself, so it has a timer on it before it can be reactivated.

[Genie]

2. Amount of skill determines QL of bot.
Instead of the basic shell determining the QL of the bot, the amount of skill determines it. For instance, when inserting the main parts, you can also determine the QL of the robotic pet. We see this with other tradeskill processes today.

The different basic shells available will have an lower and upper limit, like this: android (1-50), junkbot (50-130), warmachine (130-180), slayerdroid (180-200). This means you need a minimum of skill to build a warmachine, and no matter your skill, you wont be able to build one higher than ql 180. This means that the shop only need to have 4 different basic shells.

Activating the shell also requires tradeskills, so if you build a bot that is too high for your skills, using the city TS buff for instance, you wont be able to reactivate it when it is destroyed when you're in the field.

[Genie]

3. Different shells for omni and clan.
Using the same robotic model we have today, the basic robotic shells available would be: android, junkbot, warmachine and slayerdroid.

What if there were separate lines of bots for omni and clan, so that the pets looked different, but had the same "strength" for same QL. The two different lines could look like this:

Omni: android, ninjadroid, T-700, slayerdroid
Clan: buckethead, buzzsaw, junkbot, warmachine

[Genie]

4. Creating unique pets using parts.
Given that each shell has a number of available "slots" for parts and that the minimum number of parts for a complete shell is 3 (power supply, weapon module, android NCU), then you could use the additional slots to insert parts that make your pet unique.

Here are some example parts:
1. Weapon modules with different damage types.
2. Proc cluster with percentage and effect.
3. Offense/Defense booster (cannot have both at same time).
4. Health booster.
5. Armor.
6. Nano shield.
And many more...

The idea is that you can build different shells for different puroses. Parts may drop in missions or as reward for quests. There is great potential here.

[geturmoney]

bump the customize-your-pet-idea!

[drainbamage]

Eh. Interesting idea, but for the amount of work required, the bots had better be more than just a DOT with bad pathfinding.

[Shareida]

Good idea don. However, the creation process should have a shortcut (saveable template, premade template etx), or a better tradeskill interface + guidance for newbies then.

[Gorathon]

So now I am required to IP both nanoskills for me and tradeskills for my bot(s), starting on noob island?

There is merit to this idea, but asking me to spread my improvement points over more stats than other professions is not balance, in fact it's quite the opposite.

+1 for out-of-the-shell thinking
Needs to be fleshed out more

[Rurounin]

I don't like this idea, to be honest we still have an IP investment to do in order to build our bots just that we can tradeskill in any setup, hence making tradeskills a needed thing for engineers. And I'm pretty sure that's as close to the real thing as it can be, a tradeskiller that can tradeskill and still effectively use his character in other areas of the game as well.

I like the thought of having to IP tradeskills instead of nanoskills, we will be the first non NR profession that doesn't need nanoskills, and that's variety if anything is.

[Genie]

Good idea don. However, the creation process should have a shortcut (saveable template, premade template etx), or a better tradeskill interface + guidance for newbies then.

Yeah I was thinking about that. I dont see any problem with bot shops also having premade robotic shells that just need to be activated. We also see that with premade implants in shops. In noob island for instance only premade shells will be available, which will be even easier to use than bot as nanos.

However if you only use premade robotic shells, you dont get to use your skills to up the ql, and you dont get to customize them with other than the basic parts. You can get along fine with premade shells, but if you want to shine, you will have the option to build unique pets.

[Genie]

...

...

Keep in mind that this is just an idea, not a full fledged suggestion. My hope was that it would be possible to get some constructive brainstorming feedback on how to improve on it. If there is a weakness in the idea, make a suggestion on how to overcome it.

I think it will be easier for engineers to just activate a robotic shell than to upload a nano, cast it, then activate the shell that appears in your inventory after you cast the nano, dont you agree?

You will free up a lot of points in MC and TS, and since this is balance, who is to say that engineers nanos will stay the same? And a lot of buffs for the robotic pet can instead be made into modules that are added to a shell.

Open your minds to what lies beyond the boundaries of AO today. Like what was said, think out of the box. Find solutions, not just problems.

[Kuegen]

I think the tradeskills thing makes sense, you create a beacon that can warp someone to your location, you create a shield that protects you from special attacks. Just another form of nanotech really. I also think there would be more work involved in other professions so they arent as dependant on nanoskills id hope.

Anyway, I like the idea. Id like the numbers changed a bit, for instance it would be nice if you could make a level 220 slayerdroid with enough skills at a low level. Maybe even a 250 widowmaker? I always thought it would be neat for pet classes to always have pets red to them. It would be nice to see a similar concept applied to MP and Crat pets. You could really condense the amount of nano programs this way, since so many pets look the same.

This engineer idea sounds so great though, instances could drop uber power supplies haha. You may have to recraft your main-pet's shell a bunch of times! New nanos dont ever have to be introduced, just parts. I also like the idea of using more robots as pets. I would like to see a mini-GOT pet. Instead of casting auras you summon a little wen-wen type bot that you make. In its design you include a specific aura device so it acts as the aura of your choice. You construct a beacon and summon it, target a player in your team, right click will teleport them there after 90 seconds, anyone in team with enough CL can use it. Monsters may try to destroy it... Yeah there is so much they could do with engis

[Obtena]

Its a bad idea because then you get a situation where one profession dont need to make the same investment to cast nanos as everyone else does.

What? It still costs IP to raise tradeskills. I don't think people realize that the concept of raising a skill with IP to cast a nano still exists for engis in re-balance and that the hangup is simply what that skill is called. Come to that conclusion however you want but raising skill X to cast a pet is the same thing as raising skill Y to cast a pet.

Anyways, I don't think you realize that your idea is actually going to be implemented in the re-balance .... it WILL require tradeskills to build bots through the marvel of making the casting of the nano to get the bot shell dependent on tradeskills.

[Genie]

What? It still costs IP to raise tradeskills. I don't think people realize that the concept of raising a skill with IP to cast a nano still exists for engis in re-balance and that the hangup is simply what that skill is called. Come to that conclusion however you want but raising skill X to cast a pet is the same thing as raising skill Y to cast a pet.

Very good. Now take a look at the engie skill sheet, considder item availability, and rethink that statement.

[Obtena]

If you have a point say it. I don't see what needs to be rethought and I don't really get what you are after with that statement. Are you suggesting that the itemization of AO doesn't support an situation for an engi putting IP into tradeskills for nanos that use tradeskills as requirements for casting? If so, I beg to differ. It's not relevant anyways. Considering that FC are reworking nanos, lack of accessibility to tradeskills through items is simply addressed by changing the requirements on nanos to ... whatever is accessible by an engi of the appropriate level. There simply isn't a case for QQing about using tradeskill reqs for nanos because of itemization. That's a nonsensical position.

[Mostadio]

I don't see why people are clinging to the whole nanoskill/tradeskill thing. Engis get nothing but benefit from it.

[Obtena]

What people don't get is that they are making a non-issue out of this. If you look at it, it's fundamentally just a name-change. I don't understand how putting IP in a stat named "Mechanical Engineering" is somehow offensive but putting IP in a stat named "Matter Creation" to achieve the same result is not. That's just dumb.

[Alceona]

I was against this idea to (nanoskill/tradeskill switch). But a bit later I've understanded all cons of this changes and especialy new opportunites with perks and equipment.

[Kuegen]

I just dont want nanoprograms to be "casted" when they require tradeskills and then i want to see more tradeskill utility for other professions. (BE/trap disarm for fixers, psychology for enfs/crats etc)