Pocketing

[Obtena]

I'm not arguing about solo or in team or team make up or what is more efficient way to level at specific points in your characters growth.

The fact is that for those factors being equal, it's faster to OST (and we are talking exclusively about hecklers here because you can't OST spirits). If it's not, you simply aren't doing it right with your OSTer. There are efficiencies gained from not having to kite OR pull your own hecklers and nothing can offset those efficiencies if you choose to kite. Also, the OST has no impact on the amount of XP you get per heckler, so I don't understand what you are referring to when you say you need 3-5x more hecklers to ding with a pocket as opposed to kiting. That doesn't make sense.

[Psikie]

Also, the OST has no impact on the amount of XP you get per heckler, so I don't understand what you are referring to when you say you need 3-5x more hecklers to ding with a pocket as opposed to kiting. That doesn't make sense.

The team make up is the difference. A team of 6 splits your xp per kill. Then xp is also divided by the actual toon lvl with the highest lvl toon in team gettin highest share of xp per kill. So instead of gettin capped xp per heckler kill, you have to split xp amongst the team and that made it so that you had to have about 3 heckler kills to equal 1 capped solo heckler kill.

[Gorathon]

Grudge match! Solo NT ("OST Nuker") vs. Solo NT ("Free Kiter"). Behind the gym after 5th period. No knives.

Who has a stopwatch?

[Kuegen]

Grudge match! Solo NT ("OST Nuker") vs. Solo NT ("Free Kiter"). Behind the gym after 5th period. No knives.

Who has a stopwatch?

Speaking of which, where are all the schools n gyms in rubika? surely there are children and people working out? Or am i just blind to these things

[Obtena]

The team make up is the difference.

I already mentioned that those factors being equal, OST is better. Obviously team makeup affects XP ... in ANY situation, so it much be fixed if you want to make claims about what is better.

[Psikie]

I already mentioned that those factors being equal, OST is better. Obviously team makeup affects XP ... in ANY situation, so it much be fixed if you want to make claims about what is better.

It's impossible to equal because now we are not talking about the same thing anymore. I'm talking about SOLO kiting hecks vs OST hecks with a team. From my experience (220 NT) I ALWAYS-ALWAYS-ALWAYS gained faster/more xp SOLO kiting hecks than in a team with OST in elysium. Was the OST "easier" sure, but not faster. If you can kite 1 heck and not get hit you can kite 100 and not get hit.

[Obtena]

It's impossible to equal because now we are not talking about the same thing anymore.

Exactly, your trying to compare two completely different methods with factors that favour one vs. the other to make your case. My statement is pretty simple. OST is faster than kiting for other factors being equal.

If you can kite 1 heck and not get hit you can kite 100 and not get hit.

So what? The same is true for OST and you aren't wasting time running around and collecting your own hecklers.

[Psikie]

Whats funny, to me at least, is that OSTing at kite hill is much slower than an NT kiting by themselves; I would throw a guess out there that "real" kiting is 25-50% faster; at least.

This was the original statement, that I agree with. Keep in mind we are talking about SOLO vs teamed.

Kiting is definitely not faster than OSTing because in Kiting, you interrupt nuking with running and in OSTing you don't. I don't even get how anyone could possibly believe that.

Still here it is my understanding you are talking about SOLO vs teamed NT.

Kiting is faster for a SOLO NT because he is not sharing xp with 5 team mates. If your NT is teamed OST is faster because you can chain cast aoe's and don't have to worry about anything else.

Again reference to SOLO vs teamed.

Exactly, your trying to compare two completely different methods with factors that favour one vs. the other to make your case. My statement is pretty simple. OST is faster than kiting for other factors being equal.

Kiting is not faster than OST, ever.

Here is where we have a disconnect. I would have to say again somewhere I think you are trying to use absolutes. I clearly state in team situation OST is faster, but for a SOLO NT kiting is faster. Having done my fair share of kiting and OST with my 2 NT's (220 and 150) I know factually the fastest ways to gain xp. No guessing needed.
In fact I can even show you in game with an easy benchmark test. I can kite 10 hecks, screenshot the xp gained. Then repeat with team of 6 and you can OST and screenshot the xp gained. In the team setting it will be lower xp for the NT, and it will be very easy math to calculate how much less (on avg about 1/3). Which means it would take about 3x as many pulls with OST to gain same amount of xp for the NT kiting SOLO.
I'm not sure if maybe you were not fully understanding what I was tryin to say but hopefully this clarifies it.

[ElandorOo]

Rotflmao.....so me and a couple buddies went out last night to garner real word numbers, I had the idea that I could put an end to the discussion once and for all., and give the factual numbers that were earlier stated to be missing. After pulling and killing the full area, east, west, SH, and JC, and arriving with my hecks half dead already from boil blood, confident that at the very least, the half dead state would assure me of my truth, the OST's required three pulls, and brought them all back with less than a nukes worth of life off them, it became evident that neither way is any faster at all. The limiting factor is spawn rate. Both ways cleared the field faster than they respawned. So, it doesn't matter either way, unless there were more hecks to pull, there is no difference.

[Manicmouse]

The limiting factor is spawn rate. Both ways cleared the field faster than they respawned. So, it doesn't matter either way, unless there were more hecks to pull, there is no difference.

Spawn timer starts on mob death, so the faster you kill hecks the sooner they spawn.

Therefore even though both methods get all hecks, whoever kills them quicker gets more hecks over time

I'm not joining the argument about which method is faster though...

[Thorneee]

In the team setting it will be lower xp for the NT, and it will be very easy math to calculate how much less (on avg about 1/3). Which means it would take about 3x as many pulls with OST to gain same amount of xp for the NT kiting SOLO.

Hm, wouldn't it be 1.5x as many pulls ?

[Obtena]

Spawn timer starts on mob death, so the faster you kill hecks the sooner they spawn.

Therefore even though both methods get all hecks, whoever kills them quicker gets more hecks over time

i.e. OST > kiting.

[ElandorOo]

By that logic, free kiting wins on the basis of larger pulls with more life gone from them before nuking by boil blood.

[ElandorOo]

And even if you somehow found a tank that could take as many beating on him, since the nukes are the same, free kiting wins by applying damage during the gathering, while OST's nt cannot start doing damage till they get there.

[Kuegen]

This was the original statement, that I agree with. Keep in mind we are talking about SOLO vs teamed.

Actually the quote can be interpreted in two way: The way you interpreted or the obtena interpreted. "alone" meaning without an OST, not without a team.

[Psikie]

Hm, wouldn't it be 1.5x as many pulls ?

Well if my math is correct, 1/3 = 33.3% of 100%. So it would be 3x 33.3 = 99.9%. 1.5x would only be 49.95%.

And even if you somehow found a tank that could take as many beating on him, since the nukes are the same, free kiting wins by applying damage during the gathering, while OST's nt cannot start doing damage till they get there.

I didnt even think about that fact but a skilled NT probably could pull the entire zone and kite it. No way any enfo could survive that. Not sure if i'm talking about the same thing as Obtena, my point is that xp gains for an NT are faster when he/she kites SOLO vs being teamed and having an OST.

[mjuler]

Hey look its this thread again.