Economic effects of the "updating" of sector 10 loot table.

[Firebat]

Since my first 220 was a nano-technician i found myself very often farming pocket bosses in Penumbra for their symbiants. at the time the market was great, penumbra is an area many people don't bother to get the key for, making the value of loot from there go up considerably. the symbiants, however, were primarily used for sector 10 twinks. Sector 10 has been the primary source of new credits in Anarchy Online for quite some time, with it's ample supply of "nodrops" which dropped every 5-6 kills and were converted into either tokens or 4 million credits.

the very large amount of incoming credits resulted in horrid, massive inflation that had to be stopped, as Funcom acted upon recently by removing the credit items. unfortunately, this also removes much of the appeal that sector 10 had to offer, since the bosses offer no guarantee of loot and you have to farm them the same way as credit items; standing in a spot for several hours bashing aliens and hoping for a drop or two. not a very appealing way to spend your time, in my opinion, but the credit items made it a bit more worth it.

in any case anyone can rabble off reasons why the sector 10 update was a bad idea but i want to point out just how widespread its effects are. Here's a list of grievances from someone who's entire income was based around supplying s10 twinks:

1: AI raid loot

AI raids are the only way (aside from sector 42 and invasions in main cities) to get ql240+ bots for the ql300 combined armors that everyone needs at least one piece of these days. but what good are bots ql239 or lower, or (dread the day these drop) ql191 or lower? the only notably valuable quality level of bots these days are ql240+ since the ql225 armor market is now dying out and the ql250 armor market died out when the battle stations levels were changed and level 165/174 twinks began to vanish. aside from AI armor itself, however, the side loot such as Viral Compilers, Communications Relays and Viral Targeting Subunits have suffered severe drops in prices because, while still valuable, many many less people need them. as time goes on the damage will only get worse as more of the tradeable items drop but are not consumed.

2: Sector 10 Symbiants

AKA "Awakened" and "Growing" symbiants, coming in around ql190-200. power levelers almost never bother with symbiants and not that s10 is less attractive, less people stop to enjoy the scenery and twink. symbiants that were originally selling for 90million on RK1 are now selling for maybe 30.

3: Ep33n

Alappa pads. Pure Novictum Rings. Beast pads for your 150 toon, anything that made s10 twinks look good or impossibly difficult to obtain items that made your character ever so slightly better, like the Albtraum Wen-Wens. a minor effect, but still existant. hardly anyone needs them anymore. This topic is nit-picking, but being as who got their level 150 bureaucrat to penumbra and inferno after that awful Adonis progression quest, i feel cheated since no one else will probably ever attempt the same feat.

4: Wonka

you STOLE FIZZY LIFTING DRINKS. you BUMPED into the CEILING which now has to be WASHED and STERILIZED. YOU LOSE. GOOD DAY SIR.

5: Virral Triumvirate Eggs

These, amongst other RK trade skills, have fallen in price (in relation to their recent increases because of inflation). while still necessary at 220, 150 twinks still made up a large chunk of toons that would need these items. I'm sure many have noticed the sudden drop in price of Modified NotuComm Mesh Trenchcoats after their recent spike (i sold mine for 600m, now they are back down to 200m)

All my information is from RK1, not sure about any other effects on RK2. i've been playing my froobs to save some credits since my anarchy income is shot to hell and i've fallen back on farming uniques such as Ljotur, Lamb and Obediency Enforcer in the absence of my normal methods of farming. not great cash at all since their loot is only useful to sector 7 twinks and sector 7 has it's own quirks that need working out. As far as inflation goes, removing the nodrop items was a necessity. credits credits everywhere but not a one worth a darned thing. but they need to be replaced to bring attraction back to sector 10, or at least to the level 150 range. a few suggestions:

*New instances at that level range*

while this would be useful all around at all level ranges, low-tl5 is the most needy at this time. while the task of making a new instance is a bit more than could probably be ordered up at this time, perhaps recycling instances? how about a tl5 Temple of the Three Winds with higher level mobs/loot? or even the Condemned Subways? I know every Bureaucrat would like a bigger Customized IMI Desert Reet.


An equal drain of credits to the income produced in s10

20 million credits for a perk reset was an awsome idea, but compared to the amount of credits being produced by s10, it's nothing. perhaps offer Funcom points for AO credits? i'm sure a few of those folks with 4 cities and 8 full org banks would be happy to unload a few credits to fancy things up (i know you're out there, i know a few of you).


Nodrop loot from sector 10

not nodrop credit items, but gear that people will want to stop and pick up before they level onward. Heck, why not a raid instance with a 5 hour lock where you slap 1 of each boss?


I know the post is lengthy but i think it's worth it as a highlight of what has been done and what needs to be done without much demagoguery. holy crap that's a word? In any case, Anarchy Online's playerbase is composed very much of veterans who know the game well, and with any experienced group of people, we are resistant to change in any way. The hit to s10 was quite a shock, since it is rarely in this game that material is removed; typically it only gets altered or something to replace it is added. Anyways, the inward flow of credits has been ceased but they still are not going anywhere; people who were not affected by the s10 update have their cities full of stagnating money with nothing to spend it on (not to sound Rk4 political). Congratulations to anyone who read this essay of a post, Firebat out.

[Shareida]

Yet another disgruntled S10 farmer, or someone who built his income around that market, stand in line.

[Awikun]

Sector 10 has been the primary source of new credits in Anarchy Online for quite some time, with it's ample supply of "nodrops" which dropped every 5-6 kills and were converted into either tokens or 4 million credits.

"...Every 5-6 kills..." Thats one of the most stupid things I've read about S10

[raw_fox]

i want s10 back to what it was, a year ago.
gimmi reasons to return please.

[Mastablasta]

I have to say that as a veteran of many years, the hit to sector 10 did not touch me in the slightest

[Lheann]

Like Masta I am veteran of the release time frame era. While I will not say S10 nerf did not touch me in the slightest I will explain it.

Sales of old school traditional items increased. Seems that without credits to buy Combined for every toon people had to start looking at other options. So while I personally cannot run into S10 and farm 100m in a day now, my shops which require only stocking are making that 100m for me in a few days.

I will says this, people that are upset over the nerf really have no clue how to make money in AO. There is lots of simple farming that one can do that will make you money at a good clip. Sure it is not the big 4m pop of bag full of bounties or 100's of millions for supple bots from S10 bosses. But it is steady and reliable drops.

The nerf was needed. The nerf is done. Live with it. If your entire cash flow was based on S10 related items then you really need to look at other ways to make credits. Here is free one for you, go farm up back packs full of source frags and sell them like was often seen just 4 years ago. Some people really do hate pen so much that they will buy them.

If anything S10 nerf has unlocked the market and is allowing items other than TL5(150) driven and endgame driven to be bought and sold.

But as I say in the Newbie credit guide comments. You need a method of credits that does not rely on sales and that means pearls or RK missions. It is amazing that after 10.5 years that the RK mission would still be so viable as a game play item. Of all the content that has come and gone over the years you just have to love the RK mission staying power.

[Shareida]

Of all the content that has come and gone over the years you just have to love the RK mission staying power.

As long as certain items are only easily obtainable in RK missions, they will stay popular.

Actually... AO used to have a system where players could create missions them selves and drop them into the mission booth.

What was the reason that was removed?
Can we have that back?

Sector 10 Symbiants

AKA "Awakened" and "Growing" symbiants, coming in around ql190-200. power levelers almost never bother with symbiants and not that s10 is less attractive, less people stop to enjoy the scenery and twink. symbiants that were originally selling for 90million on RK1 are now selling for maybe 30.

Most of those Symbiants were never rare, the prices got higher because of a bottleneck of patterns. And yes, I also have several bags full of them. I even manipulated the market to an extend to push the prices. Prices will even out, and the symbiants higher and lower in the row increase in price again, and sooner or later reflect the difficulty of getting them.

Virral Triumvirate Eggs

These, amongst other RK trade skills, have fallen in price (in relation to their recent increases because of inflation). while still necessary at 220, 150 twinks still made up a large chunk of toons that would need these items. I'm sure many have noticed the sudden drop in price of Modified NotuComm Mesh Trenchcoats after their recent spike (i sold mine for 600m, now they are back down to 200m)

The actual *value* of the Coat is probably as low or lower as the CotWK.

Virral eggs varied little in value since FC introduced them, until the S10 toon rush. A safe selling price is between 12 and 15 million.

while this would be useful all around at all level ranges, low-tl5 is the most needy at this time. while the task of making a new instance is a bit more than could probably be ordered up at this time, perhaps recycling instances? how about a tl5 Temple of the Three Winds with higher level mobs/loot? or even the Condemned Subways?

Inner Sanctum is the TL5 version of ToTW, Smuggler's Den (TLR entrance) is a Direct Spinoff of Subway.
After that, CoH has quite a farming potential.

[Rikaria]

Inner Sanctum is the TL5 version of ToTW, Smuggler's Den (TLR entrance) is a Direct Spinoff of Subway.
After that, CoH has quite a farming potential.

im wondering where you mean up in TLR this is? you sure you dont mean SFH as i cant find an enterance to smugs den in TLR????

[Gunfytr]

Think he means Biomare (Foremans).

[Fekal]

Think he means Biomare (Foremans).

If I'm not totally doped, Smuggler's Den and Biomare has been around much longer than Subway.

[Farmer]

the s10 whining reminds me of this comic

A Brief History of Corporate Whining

get it?
the real problem with anarchy online economics is that there are only very few ways for money to exit the market. ironically that means the cheaper the stuff gets, the better the system works.
What you should petition for is a money sink or a rk-money for dollars transfer like in Eve Online

[Shareida]

Mixed something up there. sorry. I believed Biomare and foreman's were joined together, once upon a time.

[Lazy]

Biomare and Foreman's are still the same dungeon.

[saltking913]

I left right after the s-10 nerf. I didn't whine or complain. Nor is the OP. He is stating fact. His fact. Having veterans comment that your way of making money is gone and get over it is all too funny to me. I made all my credz by way of s-10. Either by farming s-10 itself or farming items for s-10 toons. So I know the feeling of having your market taken away. I know, I know I could farm pearls, or camp mobs and what not, as the thousand credit guides show. I also consider myself a veteran. I was not any where near poor. What i don't understand is why the veterans who have literally everything are afraid of a price hike. You know why all the prices are dropping. It's demand. Not s-10. Less players for same amount of items= lower prices. All the money sinks in the world will solve nothing. Like usual the veterans who had it all wanted it to themselves, and managed to complain the way to victory. So what if my s-10 advy can out earn your army of 220's. Better go whine in a thread. Then bad mouth the people who whine about a random nerf. Then go to every thread and tell them to stop whining about s-10. In case some didn't notice the game starts at level 1 and not 220. I guess if you have to make all toons 220, at least the veterans will have someone to stand with in bor on the building and talk about how fun it used to be. You know back when people actually played ...

[SoapTarder]

I left right after the s-10 nerf. I didn't whine or complain. Nor is the OP. He is stating fact. His fact. Having veterans comment that your way of making money is gone and get over it is all too funny to me. I made all my credz by way of s-10. Either by farming s-10 itself or farming items for s-10 toons. So I know the feeling of having your market taken away. I know, I know I could farm pearls, or camp mobs and what not, as the thousand credit guides show. I also consider myself a veteran. I was not any where near poor. What i don't understand is why the veterans who have literally everything are afraid of a price hike. You know why all the prices are dropping. It's demand. Not s-10. Less players for same amount of items= lower prices. All the money sinks in the world will solve nothing. Like usual the veterans who had it all wanted it to themselves, and managed to complain the way to victory. So what if my s-10 advy can out earn your army of 220's. Better go whine in a thread. Then bad mouth the people who whine about a random nerf. Then go to every thread and tell them to stop whining about s-10. In case some didn't notice the game starts at level 1 and not 220. I guess if you have to make all toons 220, at least the veterans will have someone to stand with in bor on the building and talk about how fun it used to be. You know back when people actually played ...

sadly, you hit the nail on the head. everyone generally has one major passion that sucks them into an mmo, or more correctly, keeps them playing. even people that have been playing since launch, or for many many years keep logging in for a particular reason that makes them happy/excited to play. they would do well to remember that before stroking their ego. all it takes is one minor change to a game and suddenly, a bunch of players may leave. its very easy for developers to poop on peoples passions. over the years, as I watched player after player, friend after friend leave the game, it was always for the same reason: whatever thing that made them passionate about AO had been crushed in one way or another. I too have cancelled all my accounts and lost my passion for AO over a recent change. not s-10, but a rather small change that killed the game for me entirely. I woke up one morning, saw the patch notes, and without any emotional reaction knew that I was done for good. and such is the way of the MMO. enjoy it while it makes you happy, then move on, like all things material in this world. After all, in the end its people that count.

[Nuadha]

Soap - I know it is none of my business and I respect your right not to say, but what was the small change that killed the game for you?

[SoapTarder]

yeah not really important to mention what. was just making a point more than anything.

not about to feed the trolls anyway, they look hungry

[Lazy]

Soap - I know it is none of my business and I respect your right not to say, but what was the small change that killed the game for you?

my guess would be ths one

NPC & Mob Alterations:

• Textures for Sentinel Chest/Helmet and Senpai Gloves/Helmet should now display correctly and with their updated, sezmra-fied textures.

[Shareida]

I left right after the s-10 nerf. I didn't whine or complain. Nor is the OP. He is stating fact. His fact. Having veterans comment that your way of making money is gone and get over it is all too funny to me. I made all my credz by way of s-10. Either by farming s-10 itself or farming items for s-10 toons. So I know the feeling of having your market taken away. I know, I know I could farm pearls, or camp mobs and what not, as the thousand credit guides show. I also consider myself a veteran. I was not any where near poor. What i don't understand is why the veterans who have literally everything are afraid of a price hike. You know why all the prices are dropping. It's demand. Not s-10. Less players for same amount of items= lower prices. All the money sinks in the world will solve nothing. Like usual the veterans who had it all wanted it to themselves, and managed to complain the way to victory. So what if my s-10 advy can out earn your army of 220's. Better go whine in a thread. Then bad mouth the people who whine about a random nerf. Then go to every thread and tell them to stop whining about s-10. In case some didn't notice the game starts at level 1 and not 220. I guess if you have to make all toons 220, at least the veterans will have someone to stand with in bor on the building and talk about how fun it used to be. You know back when people actually played ...

Damn right of you.
I did not set foot into S10 as it were a cred farming area, nor did I farm SL ingots. The secret is to acknowlegde important items for the future and selling them years later.
Occupying a nice market is what AO is in itself, that is what I do in the in game market too.

[saltking913]

Oddly enough, AO has ruined other mmo's for me. You can't beat the best. Which is what AO was. Still my favorite mmo. Yet I refuse to re-sub. They took the game away from lots of us. The s-10 nerf was just the last straw imo and specific case. I think a more valuable change would have been to other play fields to make them equal in fun and credits. That would have achieved a balance. Not making it so those that have uberness still keep it, and those that came after have no chance. They say they will make the play field better yet as we all know that is never the case. I will file that promise with the new engine, rebalance, and other things we have been waiting patiently for. I think we have been too patient and now its may be too late...