Test Patch Note: SL Garden Key Change

[Notcrattey]

Nah, that isn't the reason. People are going to inf at 160 now removing the need for Ado.

I mean the fact that it takes them like 20 mins longer to get there now :[

[erozc]

It makes perfect sense to adjust garden key rewards. It's the only way to prevent people from intentionally skipping useful stuff (their garden keys) in favor of getting a crapload of XP later.

I think garden keys are essential for SL, and it's bad design to favor those who decide not to get them until at near endgame. So they're fixing the design flaw. I wouldn't go as far as to call e.g. Scheol quest rewards to be anywhere as essential and as such don't really see a tight bonding of this decision to other quests.

Of course it could be that they're trying to promote teaming by eliminating these sk-o-mats :tinfoil:

Then again a third view for these "other" quests is, they're really best enjoyed at intended level ranges content-wise - if you exclude some interesting design decisions such as Ado quest dryad and tower keeper, certain mobs in Scheol quest, Penumbra Alappaa, etc etc that can require a high level helper instead of a functioning team of the proper level.

[Raggy]

I think garden keys are essential for SL, and it's bad design to favor those who decide not to get them until at near endgame. So they're fixing the design flaw. I wouldn't go as far as to call e.g. Scheol quest rewards to be anywhere as essential and as such don't really see a tight bonding of this decision to other quests.

Except it's a player decision. The inconvenience of not having the key in exchange for additional SK later on. It's called balance.

[Seoin]

Except it's a player decision. The inconvenience of not having the key in exchange for additional SK later on. It's called balance.

I can understand you here, but people not having keys they would have gotten if they weren't saving them for sk makes teaming harder for everyone, waiting ages for people to run from ely or pande to get to simple things like ado hecks or alappaa. Teaming is already hard in this game, no need to kill it more by breaking teams because people have to go before half the people can even get there.

You pay for the convenience of having keys by putting the effort in to do the quest, you shouldn't have to pay for it in sk too. I usually get keys early on, and don't personally mind leveling slower at high levels because of it. But it doesn't make much sense to me to scale the rewards based on level, since you do the exact same job no matter when you do them.

I think FC should keep the TOTAL amount of sk gotten from keys/quests at about what a 215 toon would get from them though (so while they low level quests give a lot less, the high ones give more) to keep all the people that are currently complaining about them happy, as they would still get the same boost from key quests if they saved them until 215+ as they get now. They would just lack keys at lower levels due to masochism, but that's their choice.

[Colrain]

I am not sure I see why FC is making this change for the SL garden key quests. I did two Scheol keys yesterday to help out one of my smaller toons and guildmates. We did the Roch key and Roch Sanctuary keys, my 'main' is 215 and had only done the Ocra keys previously.

It did not take too long to do the regular key, probably about an hour with all the running around, but that does not count any of the preparation time collecting pattern pieces, novictum and filled crystals. However, this is still more time than it takes a 215 to do a 'daily' mission. My 215 received the equivalent of two daily missions for a similar amount of time spent doing the regular key as doing two dailies. So why make the change FC?

We took a break and then we started the Roch Sanctuary key. This key took at least 2 hours maybe three ... I should have set a timer, it felt like it took 'forever'. In the end one of the members of the team did not even get her key as the spawn of the 'defiled pattern' did not work correctly. This sanctuary key I would estimate took the time of 6 or 8 daily missions to complete ... even if my 215 had solo'd it so she did not have to wait for her guildmates to run the distances and mezz the spirits I think it would have still taken multiples of the time spent on a 'daily' mission. This key also got her the xp/sk reward equivalent to 2 daily missions. So why the change FC?

Unless I am missing something here and Scheol is not a good example ... the garden keys or at least the Sanctuary garden keys take way longer to finish than the equivalent time spent to complete two daily missions and/or an inferno mission. I don't see the need for any change to the xp/sk rewards ... it is not like we can repeat the garden key quests over and over.

Maybe there is room for adjusting the xp/sk for title 7 players who save the Nansence and/or Elysium keys, but Scheol and on up take appropriate amounts of time to complete to be comparable to two daily missions. Usually much longer than two daily missions take to finish.

Also, I suspect the time I spent was shorter than most because being neutral I don't have to deal with as much aggro at the temples, etc. as a sided toon would.

Unless there is some 'bug' that gives 219 players way more sk per garden key than 215 players receive I don't see any need for changing the rewards for garden keys.

Colrian

[Notcrattey]

Unless I am missing something here and Scheol is not a good example

It's a terrible example, as it's one of the worst keys to get

[Utopian]

I am not sure I see why FC is making this change for the SL garden key quests. I did two Scheol keys yesterday to help out one of my smaller toons and guildmates. We did the Roch key and Roch Sanctuary keys, my 'main' is 215 and had only done the Ocra keys previously.

It did not take too long to do the regular key, probably about an hour with all the running around, but that does not count any of the preparation time collecting pattern pieces, novictum and filled crystals. However, this is still more time than it takes a 215 to do a 'daily' mission. My 215 received the equivalent of two daily missions for a similar amount of time spent doing the regular key as doing two dailies. So why make the change FC?

We took a break and then we started the Roch Sanctuary key. This key took at least 2 hours maybe three ... I should have set a timer, it felt like it took 'forever'. In the end one of the members of the team did not even get her key as the spawn of the 'defiled pattern' did not work correctly. This sanctuary key I would estimate took the time of 6 or 8 daily missions to complete ... even if my 215 had solo'd it so she did not have to wait for her guildmates to run the distances and mezz the spirits I think it would have still taken multiples of the time spent on a 'daily' mission. This key also got her the xp/sk reward equivalent to 2 daily missions. So why the change FC?

Unless I am missing something here and Scheol is not a good example ... the garden keys or at least the Sanctuary garden keys take way longer to finish than the equivalent time spent to complete two daily missions and/or an inferno mission. I don't see the need for any change to the xp/sk rewards ... it is not like we can repeat the garden key quests over and over.

Maybe there is room for adjusting the xp/sk for title 7 players who save the Nansence and/or Elysium keys, but Scheol and on up take appropriate amounts of time to complete to be comparable to two daily missions. Usually much longer than two daily missions take to finish.

Also, I suspect the time I spent was shorter than most because being neutral I don't have to deal with as much aggro at the temples, etc. as a sided toon would.

Unless there is some 'bug' that gives 219 players way more sk per garden key than 215 players receive I don't see any need for changing the rewards for garden keys.

Colrian

This was my thought exactly. We have dailies that take less than 2 minutes to complete - why is this such an issue now? For those that worry about folks to team with - you should be complaining about the daily missions, cause they require no teams and are what most of us are doing with our lowbies to level. Log on - do 4 dailies - log off - log next toon - rinse and repeat.

[Wakizaka]

It's a terrible example, as it's one of the worst keys to get

It's gotten a lot easier since they fixed the drops on pattern pieces at least.

[MajorOutage]

It's a terrible example, as it's one of the worst keys to get

It's gotten a lot easier since they fixed the drops on pattern pieces at least.

I've never had a problem. Then again I farmed a backpack full of those patterns ages ago.

[Pomidor]

It did not take too long to do the regular key, probably about an hour with all the running around, but that does not count any of the preparation time collecting pattern pieces, novictum and filled crystals. However, this is still more time than it takes a 215 to do a 'daily' mission.

You expect that content designed for lvl 100-130 should be as fast/SK rewardous as daily for 215? I dont understand you...

[Wakizaka]

I've never had a problem. Then again I farmed a backpack full of those patterns ages ago.

But are you clan or omni ? Because the only mobs that used to drop the pattern were Redeemed so clans had to bugger up their faction in order to get pattern pieces firstly, and then the drop rate still sucked somewhat.

Pretty easy these days, just farm at Temple Bog, and if you've got a char that's done the Scheol Quests there's a device you get that you can hand to the Yutto by where you enter Scheol from Elysium along with 3 pieces of the pattern, and he'll hand you back a complete one.

[Ahndracorvid]

I'm a bit confused. My impression had previously been this change was only going to affect the key quests, but the patch notes say this:

• We have modified XP rewards for Shadowlands Quests to offer maximum benefits to players of the intended level range of the zone.

So my question is are all quests affected (ie. including Ado brain, Pen Xan, Scheol Yuttos, Inf Tours, etc.) or is it just the garden key quests?

[cybertron]

I'm a bit confused. My impression had previously been this change was only going to affect the key quests, but the patch notes say this:



So my question is are all quests affected (ie. including Ado brain, Pen Xan, Scheol Yuttos, Inf Tours, etc.) or is it just the garden key quests?

wtf? when and where was this mentioned? Don't tell me i have to rush through that crappy scheol quest now to get all the SK goodness before they drop this on live?

[Ahndracorvid]

wtf? when and where was this mentioned? Don't tell me i have to rush through that crappy scheol quest now to get all the SK goodness before they drop this on live?

As I said:

[...snip...] the patch notes say this:

And if you click the little arrow icon next to lindelu's name where I've quoted her, you get taken to her full post here:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...77#post6042777

:P

[cybertron]

This will be pretty crappy if they've ninja-introduced the nerfs to the other SL quests when they had just mentioned they were going to just do the garden key quests.

I'm hoping lindelu just missed the word "Garden" in those patch notes statement...

[Ahndracorvid]

Meh, I can understand why they've done it to be fair. I'm in the same situation you are where I've been saving those quests until after TL6 because they are a nice source of SK that doesn't require me to grind Inf missions or wait for daily lockouts, and yeah it's gonna feel like a wasted opportunity. But as someone else mentioned earlier in this thread the game already feels kinda top-heavy lately, so a move to encourage more activity at lower levels is understandable even if it means I personally lose out a little.

If this is the intention then I agree with and support the principle. My only concern is that at those "intended levels" some of the SL playfield quests are difficult for a team of that level to do. Take Ado Brain for example. I'm not sure if even a full team of TL5s would be able to handle Muddy Dryad on their own...

[Rosss]

What were you all thinking doing quests for sk!? Get back in those inf missions where you belong!

I fail to see why this was needed at all. After doing a zillion bar tours, enigma dogs, Rats!, and other ridiculously easy daily missions, I don't know what harm a couple key quests on my TL7 makes, most of which were more interesting, took more time and skill than stupid dailys.

[Raggy]

How retarded do you have to be.

Again and again and again FC nerfs stuff that had no reason to be nerfed.

"Don't fix what isn't broken" - Someone should get the dev team to paint this all over the office so maybe it sticks, because this is f*cking stupid.

[Pomidor]

It was not broken and its not fixed - its jsut adjusted to apropiate level ranges, so those who are in fact in playfield range get best gain, while higher characters wont get such powerfull benefit.

[Raggy]

It was not broken and its not fixed - its jsut adjusted to apropiate level ranges, so those who are in fact in playfield range get best gain, while higher characters wont get such powerfull benefit.

[Social] Michizure: For example:
Nascence Mission Reward
This item will give you 1 level if you are below level 60 and 203500 xp if you are above level 60.

(with patch now on Testlive)

203500XP is 203.5SK.

That is 1 Inf Easy mob. That is a nerf. That is a MASSIVE nerf.