You're the exception, Gatester. Most people who are capable of making brilliant twinks ditch the Trader. Traders are now mainly for the lazy and the stupid, at low levels, and these idiots are quite easy to beat - everyone has the ability to Alpha these traders, too. My Enforcer rushes them, gets 2-3 hits in and then, when they root, I start with the TOTW rings. They are squishy as hell.Originally Posted by Gatester
I don't think twinking a level 1 trader makes him an exception , nor does it show that traders are the lowbie profession for the lazy and stupid and that they are easily-beaten idiots. Your experience with traders is an exception to the collective experience of years of many people doing lowbie PVP and taking trader twinks to orders of magnitude higher effectiveness than any other profession in the game. If your experience was indicative of the general population, then we wouldn't be seeing the number of traders that exist at those levels right now.
They are squishy? Depends on the situation but if you were killing them like you say, you obviously weren't drained which means you were zerging them OR they weren't prepared for PVP with their buffs, etc... . I think it's a pretty dishonest approach to make claims based on a select encounter and conclude there isn't anything of concern here. It's evident to experienced players or by looking at the demographics of that range that you are describing a very situational scenario that isn't typical. Even an average geared trader has a massive advantage over EVERY other profession in lowbie PVP.
The argument here is about principles, not figures. The fact that there are hordes of traders running around at these low TL's is indicative of a problem and it's a problem that has been persistent for far longer than is reasonable. It dilutes and deprives this level range of diversity, interest and ultimately, players who want more something more in PVP than just a win. The debate shouldn't be about IF there is a problem but what could be done to fix that problem.
Last edited by Obtena; Jun 4th, 2012 at 23:10:37.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
From my vast expierience, I can say that traders are beatable - but its all down to know'how and situation. In BS, its better to be aware of trader (name/look/skills). If I see trader or expect a trader, I have all toolset ready for him - even after he jumps me first, there is good chance I might pull off damage that forces him to heal/run. From most encounters, I stayed alive (3/4).
But whatever I say, true is that for most players trader opponent is undefeatable - ffs, took me "only" 7 years to learn all odds of fight vs traders and still I can be pretty much supprised.
I like PvP
TL6: Tereshkova 200 eng / Patrollerz 200 sol / Tankietka 200 NM enf / Pielegniarka 200 Tank Doc / Oleska 200 SOLIKeep
TL5: Miazga 150 sol / Piknababa 150 NM Enf 2he / Gigantika 150 NM Enf / Malutki 150 Enf Trox WIP
TL4: Ladyrazor 112 fixer (retired) / Shha 100 NT / Cycolina lvl 100 NM Enforcer
+ Tons of other chars...
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By all means, lets hose another profession. We've just reamed MAs, lets do traders next. You know they're a love proff because they just pack high level teams.
Who's after that? Agents? AS'ing rats. Crats! Charming and stunning their way through fights with squishy behinds - they're like psycho babies!
Lets not stop until every profession is a slow, meaningless, joyless slog.
Let's see:
MPs can stack their buffs so they can cast higher buffs, they can moch themselves up to godmode soon as their NCU can hold all the buffs, say about level 40 for the ingenious, maybe 30. Mochs and they have level 120 pets. That's obscene! We should lock mochs at level 120, and pets should only be castable at the level of the pet! Yes, that's only fair to people who can't just cast a higher level fist.
Enforcers: behe soon as they can crawl, am I right? And MR... what is that, +1500 AR?! Yah, MR should be available at level 220 only. Behe should be self only and castable only at level 140. Keepers are 2HE only, Enforcers should be 2HB only. Change all those green melee skills to deep blue.
It's only fair! Enforcers have beaten me in PVP, or they might, or I'm bored and dickless!
Doctors can nerf the hell out of any opponent, slowing them to a crawl. Makes sense long as they're the level of the init crusher. And SFA?! SFA should be level locked! It was clearly not intended that level 10 twinks should be able to get +80 FA and Treatment! And those DOTS! They should be self only.
Crats: should be able to cast their pet when they reach that pet's level! And that fear, hahahahahaha, MAs have had a fear for 12 years that has worked on, what, one person for the past year? But crats can fear a zip code! What's the check on that? Psychology? No matter. Crat should be able to fear as many people as they are - 1. And you know that "unstunnable" MA line? It should actually work against Crat stuns. That's not an exaggeration.
Mochams are not self only like the trader drains, a trader can have the drains running and get mochams, and trader drains are making targets weaker. It is completely different and your argument has far too many issues to work. That and possiblly if MP's had comp lit buffs giving them enough NCU to actually hold every OSB in game at tl3 rather than 3 mochams a hot and a runspeed buff then an MP having mochams might be a more serious issue. You cannot have most everything like traders and agents can.
The enforcer thing I do not really get. The doctor thing would be bad, except a low level doctor will actually run out of nano and can also be killed by regular damage which lower levels actually have. Tl5+ doctors do have infinite nano and are too difficult to kill in one on one fights, but they are a healer profession so it is expected. Crats...they are difficult enough to play before 160ish and the fear may help but all you need is one profession to nullify it, and there are more keepers than crats in PVP
I have had several low level traders myself, and spent the most time on the level 1, and have leveled a trader to 200ish (cannot remember). The drains are too much for PVP.
Last edited by Gatester; Jul 28th, 2012 at 03:20:13.
Enforcers are only good in the right hands, as are MPs and, well, any other profession. Everyone has their weakness, and a small change to a Trader can change them so they are easy at low levels (Remove the Roots!)
Doctors... as Gatester said. Hard in a 1v1, except if you gain the upper hand when the debuff runs out, they are screwed. They gotta focus 100% on healing and you just keep pumping that in.
Traders are the opposite, kill 'em before they get a threshold on you. Predraining and Roots should be disabled, as they essentially REMOVE this weakness.
I remember having these kind of discutions in an older topic here : http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=570554
All in all, trader unbalancement (especially in low levels) is just the most visible part of the rebalancement iceberg : trader abuse of power (best example: nanites at level 40ish !) justified to let enfo (1HE+B) and agent (in a minor way) be so strong in TL3 so they can be serious opponents. But this left ALL OTHER PROFESSIONS totally useless until level 100ish for very few (MP, Sold, Engi may be ?) & even TL5 for most others (Doc, Crat, Sold, MA, Adv, etc).
That trader crazyness once fixed (see proposals in the topic i mentionned), all the job wouldn't be over, but this would start allowing to rethink (among other things) NR perks, enfo AAO & combos, low/mid healing capacities (agent, doc, adv, MA), and other professions DD/perks/nanos according to level ranges, as they would be viable again - wich means not 25% (or 0% ...) efficient after 6 seconds against a trader as most professions are now.
This is quite a big deal of a job, trader's just the beginning ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M
!whois Rudsephe
NR Keepers <3 Traders!
Been there, done that. Unless it's level 60 or higher for NR2, traders circles around them. Even with NR2 it's not a very even fight.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Trader is not the most OP profession/class/whatever in any MMORPG I have seen... In a game called Flyff there is a class called billposter. 1 button from them does 200k damage at the level they get it and it takes a split second to use it. Its been there since beta and they have not fixed it. The cost is all their "nanopool" but since its cash shop.. their nano pool will never drop. Their maxed out level and geared toons costing about $2000 dies to a toon with only $10 invested. Trader is 3rd most OP profession I have ever seen. The only way to kill them is to hit them first.. but since they run as fast as a 220 enfo vs a lvl 60 totw twink its useless.
220 crat ~Frocratarox~
130 doc ~Mrfunny~
150 engi ~Miniwheats~
220 Shade ~Tsume~
60 NT ~Nomorenano~
220 fixer ~Barlock~
Spirit Guide You
Agreed.
I have not read through the pages and pages of debates on this thread. But I must say the problem for me wouldnt be tl1 traders, where it becomes OP in my view is late tl2s/tl3s using nanites...
EDIT:: I just thought this through and actually I guess they are pretty op at tl1, if youre not fighting another trader(cant say ive been in this scenario many times)
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