Monthly Development Update: March 2012

[Lazy]

SWToR PvP balance is a lot better than AO. There, I can kill everyone and they can't kill me. In AO, it's the exact opposite. Oh wait..

Reroll Adv. Then it'll be just like swtor

[Mastablasta]

Yeah, because DDing towers and then switching to a player is so much more superior.

I guess maybe you never took part in planning out strategies for splitting up the opposing force, figuring out which other towerfields to attack, how to best manage regrouping, retreating, etc., and just sit there going /assist. Yea, I can see how you don't like that and I can understand from your comment that you are also incapable of even seeing the game that sits on top of just running around trying to find the next target to get +1 kill count.

But that's OK, most people in any game that gives the possibility for teamwork and objective based victory are completely oblivious to this fact, just join any game of Battlefield 3 and see the headless chickens run into the grinder completely oblivious to any attempt at cooperating with the other players in an attempt to win the map. There's the enjoyment for simple folk in that too, and that should not be scorned. But the problem is, you'll scorn everything that's not according to your specific tastes.

[Lazy]

Masta u fanboi amg u suk

[Gridpain]

SWToR PvP balance is a lot better than AO. There, I can kill everyone and they can't kill me. In AO, it's the exact opposite. Oh wait..

they have trox ranged advi in SWTOR ??

[NoGoal]

they have trox ranged advi in SWTOR ??

They have exactly that, medium at everything and thus owning everyone :P I'm kidding a bit as ´class´ balance is quite good there, they have other issues though.

I guess maybe you never took part in planning out strategies for splitting up the opposing force, figuring out which other towerfields to attack, how to best manage regrouping, retreating, etc.

That's strategy, I believe that what most players want is tactics. AO has poor and limited tactics.

[Mastablasta]

That's strategy, I believe that what most players want is tactics. AO has poor and limited tactics.

It's also tactics, but then, all MMOs are pretty poor on doing much of anything at all in the tactics department because everything is generally quite drawn out or over with in an instant, without any hope of recovery. It's just a problematic part of the design of nearly every one of them.

[Aeliniyah]

1 forum post and you instantly equate that to some sort of proof. Cute.

Nope... not one forum post. I've seen several during the years i've just lurked on the forums quietly.

How about both?
VP farmers 4cap.
The other sides VP/SK farmers get 1/4 of the VP compared to the winning side.
When the BS is over, the losing sides VP farmers don't sign up again.

Simple. Happens every single BS round.

And that shows exactly how much people really do BS because of the PVP. BS only runs because of the VP farmers.

And btw, if there was a few "real pvp'ers" on both sides it wouldn't be any problem to prevent those damn "vp farmers" from 4 capping. Mostly though the reason of one side 4-capping is that the other side's "PvP'ers" are too busy farming greens at some spawnpoint/teleport and the other side having ONE active capper (usually a fixer).

The reward for the instance is tiny amount of VP.

You can't enter with a flag.

You can't tab your own side.

Why would anyone bother going there over Bor/OA?

I don't know really... maybe because they ASKED for a pvp instance, and FC made one for them?

What do you need a flag for in there? You can already attack everyone. And you can shift-tab your own side.

And about the reward, i think FC stated (and people actually asked for that in the forums) that this PVP instance is not about the reward, but only for fast paced PVP. I really don't know why they even added those notum miners to that. Would've been better without.

But meh, it really looks like the amount of PvP'ers who really only want a fair PvP with equally equipped opponents and a fair chance for winning or losing the fight are a really small minority and the rest of them really only begin a fight if they are almost 100% sure that they will win OR if there is some significant reward at the end even if they lose.

[Psikie]

But meh, it really looks like the amount of PvP'ers who really only want a fair PvP with equally equipped opponents and a fair chance for winning or losing the fight are a really small minority and the rest of them really only begin a fight if they are almost 100% sure that they will win OR if there is some significant reward at the end even if they lose.

You forgot to add in griefers aka title farmers. I don't like BS for that main reason, I do however like to duel. 1 on 1 heads up match face to face.

[Lazy]

all this talk about bs makes me wanna go and finish farming title 7 on my fix <_<

i guess i'll reinstall ao soon

[MassDebater]

I guess maybe you never took part in planning out strategies for splitting up the opposing force, figuring out which other towerfields to attack, how to best manage regrouping, retreating, etc., and just sit there going /assist. Yea, I can see how you don't like that and I can understand from your comment that you are also incapable of even seeing the game that sits on top of just running around trying to find the next target to get +1 kill count.

But that's OK, most people in any game that gives the possibility for teamwork and objective based victory are completely oblivious to this fact, just join any game of Battlefield 3 and see the headless chickens run into the grinder completely oblivious to any attempt at cooperating with the other players in an attempt to win the map. There's the enjoyment for simple folk in that too, and that should not be scorned. But the problem is, you'll scorn everything that's not according to your specific tastes.

Nothing you wrote is specific to your wet dream of objective based pvp.

[SoapTarder]

But meh, it really looks like the amount of PvP'ers who really only want a fair PvP with equally equipped opponents and a fair chance for winning or losing the fight are a really small minority and the rest of them really only begin a fight if they are almost 100% sure that they will win OR if there is some significant reward at the end even if they lose.

Quoting this because its completely on the money, and that its the obvious reason why the 'notum-miner pvp zone' failed so hard. either you are winning 99% of the time, or you are constantly getting steam-rolled by a Superteam. 5 minutes of that was all anyone needed to realize that without pve-style objectives in place, you lose things like:
- open world ganking of carebears doing pve stuff
- zone ganking & spawn camping
- killing cappers
- catch the flag-carrier trains (AO seriously needs a CTF zone.)
- timed rounds
- ability to say that your side won or lost (towers, bs)
- and... any other pvp activities that people love throughout various online games.

[Anna]

For those who weren't around or don't recall, when BS was introduced it was full, almost all day long. 210-220 BS would reach the maximum players and there would still be 20 people waiting outside. Now you can't even find 6 or whatever it needs to launch

*reminisces*

When LE first came out and Battle Stations initiated, each LE mission had comparable vp rewards to the corresponding level battle stations victory (about 80% if memory serves but it has been awhile). At day 2 after the introduction there were several threads about the lack of participants in BS due to the excessive VP rewards of the LE missions (and I do remember that higher BS was rather more heavily populated). Within a week, fc reduced the vp from LE to about 10% of the prior number in large part to respond to the number of complaints in those threads. So, did BS population increase, nope. Fc fixed a non-problem as many of the people doing LE were not participants in BS. This was clearly an attempt to force people into BS if they ever wanted any hope of getting enough VP to ofab-up. After that change I vowed to never again do BS because I personally do not like being coerced.

Recently, fc increased the vp from le missions somewhat, made the parts tradeable, introduced vp dailies to make vp more assessible to the non hard core pvp player. All good moves. For those that havin't noticed. Watch how busy John Smith is in Bor. Then notice all that comments on lack of BS participants. Wish I had some statistics, but I bet 80% of the missions being pulled are for tower tagging or notum miners. Especially noticiable during the recent period when Omni controlled all the notum lands. The chat was filled with people looking for clan towers to tag.

It would really help if there was some method of compiling data to gather facts to help identify the real problems and steps to fix them.

[Lazy]

There are also Roleplayers which are people whose major focus in game is roleplay.

rp'ers are killing ao!

[Anna]

With respect to BS and the number of participants there are other aspects to consider. Other people have commented on BS behavior but that has been a major factor in reducing BS participation. Before I vowed not to use that playfield again, I personally noticed groups of people camping the respawn points to kill ressing players killed elsewhere to "farm pvp titles." Fc tried to fix this with the introduction of safe respawn points and not losing buffs, but by all accounts that are still people who camp outside these places (not actaully seen it myself) to attack any who emerge to farm titles. They tried to fix other problems by instituting a penalty for abandoning the fight, etc. to attempt to overcome some of the pvp bad behavior. What seems to be forgotten is that this is a game people. It isn't fun when you have groups against one, lewd behavior, taunting, etc. And one person engaging in such can eliminate the enjoyment for all they encounter. If it isn't fun, people will do something else. As one person commented earlier, we get enough frustration in real life. Don't need more here. I know fc has tried to take steps to discourage bad beharior, but that cannot be totally controlled. So I respectfully submit that some pvpers bad bahavior has been directly responsible for driving players from bs. I know several players in real life who fit this profile. They now won't participate. At this point, based on anecdotal evidence, people are unlikely to return to bs without a monumental change in player behavior. Rearranging the deck chairs (by making some superficial changes in BS) won't save the ship called Battle Stations.

[MassDebater]

Your post uses a lot of words to say you dont like losing. This kind of attitude is why a lot of people refer to pvm care bears. There's a reason people spawn camped and it was because if you didn't you stood at mid with a dumb look on your face or spent the entire round chasing someone endlessly abusing the teleporters.

[Mastablasta]

Nothing you wrote is specific to your wet dream of objective based pvp.

Like I said, you are incapable of any observance other than your own belly button. But I guess that is alright.

[Psikie]

Your post uses a lot of words to say you dont like losing. This kind of attitude is why a lot of people refer to pvm care bears. There's a reason people spawn camped and it was because if you didn't you stood at mid with a dumb look on your face or spent the entire round chasing someone endlessly abusing the teleporters.

HAHAHA griefing title farmer. This is exactely why people don't like BS. Instead of capping points to win the round you would prefer ganking for epeen.

I would so love to duel you so you can't pop up and AS me while i'm fighting someone else.

[SoapTarder]

Your post uses a lot of words to say you dont like losing.

There is difference between losing a fight, and entering a fight where you cannot win no matter how gud your character is, or where you will be harassed with "U Dead! Reroll Nab" or "kkthxbye" by some ganking AS kiddie while you are already fighting someone else. bad behaviour is bad behaviour. I would love to see those people behave that way in real life and keep their facial features intact lol.

[Gunforhire]

Your post uses a lot of words to say you dont like losing. This kind of attitude is why a lot of people refer to pvm care bears. There's a reason people spawn camped and it was because if you didn't you stood at mid with a dumb look on your face or spent the entire round chasing someone endlessly abusing the teleporters.

Gankers have always been despised in this game as you will continue to be despised.

[Windguaerd]

all this talk about bs makes me wanna go and finish farming title 7 on my fix <_<

i guess i'll reinstall ao soon

what the... when did you uninstall AO?

Not allowed! Get back in here!