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Thread: Get rid of AR template over 1k for profs

  1. #1

    Get rid of AR template over 1k for profs

    One thing thats really silly is how a trader with over 3k AR only has an effective AR of about 1.3k whilst other profs Solds, MAs etc have an effective AR of 3k.

    The template for AR which determines how much you hit for is making some profs damage way way over others. Sure make something which allows certain professions to hit harder but not via an AR template. The difference should not be as much.

    If a 220 trader used the same shotgun as a 200 soldier, the 200 soldier would be hitting as hard as me if I hit with 3k AR and they have 1.3k. There is something really wrong here and it needs to be addressed.

    I used trader and sold in the example but you can substitute neglected prof v lovechild prof.
    BarginDealer The Trader
    Moretea The Enforcer
    Bahba The Adventurer
    Lesstea The Shade

    General Knights of Ka

  2. #2
    Soldiers get nerfed over 1k along with everyone else.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  3. #3
    Well, there are different AR nerf template...

    but it's quite stupid to ask for same DD between DD profs and support profs ...
    // Break time //

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  4. #4
    "Support profession" is such a meaningless term. Is a trader or MP a support profession if nobody actually wants them for their support abilities? No, they're just DDers, and substandard ones to boot.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post
    "Support profession" is such a meaningless term. Is a trader or MP a support profession if nobody actually wants them for their support abilities? No, they're just DDers, and substandard ones to boot.
    we need to stop calling them "support" vs "dd" professions and separate them as "good" and "worthless".


    i.e. doc/enf/crat/sold/shade = good
    everyone else = worthless.


    will make threads like this much more easy to manage as gridpain's post becomes

    "Well, there are different AR nerf template...

    but it's quite stupid to ask for same DD between good profs and worthless profs ... "


  6. #6
    Nobody recruits a trader for his damage. A trader gets recruited only for support services or for Sacrifice in DD teams.
    Contra
    Urynt
    Malraux
    Fontane
    Critbull
    Cleanex
    Fontane2

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post
    "Support profession" is such a meaningless term. Is a trader or MP a support profession if nobody actually wants them for their support abilities? No, they're just DDers, and substandard ones to boot.
    it comes down to the fact that most profs people class as "support" have tools beyond straight up damage that most DD's have and thus there damage is lowered to take those tools into account.

    Now wether those tools are strong enough to warrant the reduction or not is another question.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenotric View Post
    it comes down to the fact that most profs people class as "support" have tools beyond straight up damage that most DD's have and thus there damage is lowered to take those tools into account.
    Which falls apart when you consider that the professions with the most valuable support abilities (Bureaucrat, Soldier) also just happen to have good damage capabilities.
    Now wether those tools are strong enough to warrant the reduction or not is another question.
    It's not a question at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malraux View Post
    Nobody recruits a trader.
    Fixed
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  9. #9
    Dont get rid of it at all, the DD would skyrocket! But at least take another look on then. Seriously, I think I get... hmmmm w00ping +10 damage from +1.3k AR over 1k on my MP.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  10. #10
    It could certainly use a rework.

    These templates served some purpose in the past. But the concept of having seperate teamplates for different profession types is very outdated, years have passed and AO professions have evolved from classic RPG types (Monk, Druid, Mage, Paladin, etc) into MMO archetypes , which are basicallly Heal, Tank, Damage and Hybrid.

    The whole mechanic was also definitely never intended for today's 3.5k AR ranges.

    As it is some professions can have high crit weapons and crit with them for less then Enf would do with regular hit. Which is ridicolous.

  11. #11
    Yeah I look at greed and think "Wow awesome crits!" but they are only marginally higher than my shades :/

    Anyways, AR templates arent the only way to modify damage. Soldiers will still have their specials and superior perks over traders.

    Traders specifically need a rework of their template though. I believe MPs, crats, and doctors are in the same boat as them. MPs/crats have other sources of damage, pets, decent nukes.. Traders only have their weapon, a decent crit chance, but only a 1k nuke... boosting the traders AR template to at least the same as an engi would make sense to me.
    Lilkueg 220/26/6x Opifex Shade
    Kuegen 211/11 Atrox Enforcer
    And Many More!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    Well, there are different AR nerf template...

    but it's quite stupid to ask for same DD between DD profs and support profs ...
    Where did i say all profs should do the same DD however the difference shouldn't be as huge. There are many things that determine the damage output as Kuegen said which allow for higher DD profs and lower but the difference shouldn't be 1 shade/sold/MA/engie etc > 2 traders.

    As AR increased and is increasing this template is getting way out of wack. I have a 220 shade and 220 enf as well as trader. Trader takes so long to kill stuff compared to the others, the others even have better defence so its not a trade off DD or defence.
    BarginDealer The Trader
    Moretea The Enforcer
    Bahba The Adventurer
    Lesstea The Shade

    General Knights of Ka

  13. #13
    is it a thread to unnerf TL7 traders (and MP) ?

    or a thread about a modification that would raise DD of ALL proffs ... including some that really dont need...
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
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  14. #14
    Its a thread to remove the template and correct a mistake by way of deciding how much damage a prof should be able to achieve and with their weapons/perks/skills rework it to allow that.

    In my opinion the range should be maximum 30% highest DD to lowest. I dont think trader should be lowest DD but somewhere in the middle as defence isn't that great.

    They could maybe start by reducing the nerf from 1/6 to something higher 1/4 or higher for profs nerfed the most.
    BarginDealer The Trader
    Moretea The Enforcer
    Bahba The Adventurer
    Lesstea The Shade

    General Knights of Ka

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by -Barg- View Post
    In my opinion the range should be maximum 30% highest DD to lowest.
    30% less than "enough" still enough? i think it is.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuegen View Post
    .... MPs/crats have other sources of damage, pets, decent nukes..
    LOL at MPs having a decent nuke. Or decent pets. Just... LOL
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  17. #17
    AR nerf is silly. perhaps there could be some other way to keep damage in control, like buffing armor or make AR scale bad in all stages of game without 1 hard line.
    there still would be damage difference between professions because of profession abilities, self-buffs and perks.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  18. #18
    The AR templates are a red herring. Even if traders suddenly switched to a top tier template, they'd get, what, a couple hundred extra DPS at most? Their damage would still be miserable.

    If traders are to do decent or better damage they will need actual toolset support for it.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post
    The AR templates are a red herring. Even if traders suddenly switched to a top tier template, they'd get, what, a couple hundred extra DPS at most? Their damage would still be miserable.

    If traders are to do decent or better damage they will need actual toolset support for it.
    Without template

    With template
    BarginDealer The Trader
    Moretea The Enforcer
    Bahba The Adventurer
    Lesstea The Shade

    General Knights of Ka

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by -Barg- View Post
    thx for these exemples...

    obvisouly, 9k crits / 3.6k reg on 10k AC is completly OP.

    So you just proved that FC should NOT get rid of templates of ver 1 k.
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
    220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...

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