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Thread: Monthly Development Update: May 2012

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kron View Post
    I have worked with some archaic databases in the past. As one adds to them the systems become exponentially complex and inefficient. I suspect that it has not been communicated to the players just what a monstrosity the system has become...
    Become? That assumes that AO was once well designed. There's been plenty of evidence over the years that that was never the case (to be fair, it was their first MMO, back when MMOs were fairly new things, so no-one having much of an idea how to build one well is hardly surprising).

    A lot has been redone (all hail Macrosun!), but I get the impression that it's still pretty damn messy in there.
    "Do not try and catch the hamster... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no hamster, only a deadbeat rollerat..."

    [Social] Means: I don't think we removed any bosses because of bad pathing...there wouldnt be any left if we did :P

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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbane View Post
    Become? That assumes that AO was once well designed. There's been plenty of evidence over the years that that was never the case (to be fair, it was their first MMO, back when MMOs were fairly new things, so no-one having much of an idea how to build one well is hardly surprising).

    A lot has been redone (all hail Macrosun!), but I get the impression that it's still pretty damn messy in there.
    Also it was originally planned to only run for 4 years, not indefinitely. I can see a lot of hoops being jumped through in order to get it to "good enough"

    Though, I wonder why they haven't redone the characterdatabase in recent years. Obviously as they can use the content, they can parse it, so why not parse it out of BLOBs and into a proper structure? Would've made things a lot easier.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Though, I wonder why they haven't redone the characterdatabase in recent years. Obviously as they can use the content, they can parse it, so why not parse it out of BLOBs and into a proper structure? Would've made things a lot easier.
    Yeah, one would have to only modify the interface that handles requests to/from the char database.

    ...or the 350-odd places in code where the database is called directly and a certain format reply is expected, each with their own special needs and unintelligible parsing of character data...

    Which one of the two holds true, I must wonder.
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  4. #84

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Though, I wonder why they haven't redone the characterdatabase in recent years. Obviously as they can use the content, they can parse it, so why not parse it out of BLOBs and into a proper structure? Would've made things a lot easier.
    The blob is not entirely a bad thing.
    For a lot of the data in there it's actually a really efficient and fast method to store and retrieve data.
    Performance always is a concern on an MMO server.

    However, there indeed is a significant portion of data in the blob that we'd rather not have in there. Moving this data out of the blob will open up some new opportunities but also involves significant research, development and testing.
    Modifying data on a live system is always tricky and dangerous, regardless of how well it has been planned and tested.

    There's also another reason that it hasn't been done yet, that's because of the sheer volume of data in the database.
    Doing an offline conversion actually made take a week or more, which of course is unacceptable downtime.

    We are however looking into some opportunities we may have during the server merge.
    But nothing definitive regarding 'the blob' has been decided there.

    A lot of the time, the blob is a necessary evil.
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  5. #85
    "sounds very flexible" . I have to agree with Mastablasta

    Quote Originally Posted by Vhab View Post
    The blob is not entirely a bad thing.
    Performance always is a concern on an MMO server.
    I am concerned right now. Some of the lagg is totally ridiculous..
    Last edited by Ironmax; Jun 1st, 2012 at 18:01:25.

  6. #86
    Meh, i think a lot of people are aware by now that what seems like an easy change or fix from player perspective, often turns out to be monstrous task for devs. They always seem to get mad at phrase "its a copy past fix whats taking so long"

    But honestly, working within archaic ecosystem stopped being an excuse long time ago.

    If things are really so bad ( rumours i heard about f.e. making weapons ,sounded like from 1970s), at some point someone should have start playing a long game, sit down and fix it. Half a year of delay in current development to speed things out for years to come, doesnt sounds so bad in terms of 11 year old game. Its not like anyone expects patches to be on time anymore.

    I wouldnt mind a week of downtime either, if it would get rid of some of the ridicolous server problems AO runs into periodically. Over the years there were several cases of game being unplayable for longer than that.

    But its just the bandaid mentality and complete lack of long term approach that has plagued this game for years.

    After all we are talking about company who attempted to picked OGRE over their own modern in-house engine,, all the benefits that come with exchanging know-how and expertise under the same roof. Only to change their minds couple of years later. Good God.

    Not pointing fingers here, maybe people up there are under pressure from the suiuts to deliver content patches. Who knows. But it is, what it is.
    Last edited by IHaveHugeNick; Jun 1st, 2012 at 15:58:06. Reason: formating

  7. #87
    I personally wouldn't mind a 1-week downtime either if the outcome is a significant design improvement. Especially since you can probably reward players for that, like one or two social items for all and some 'premium' items such as xp-boost for paying customers, free FC points, and special offers (one month subscription for 1/3 the price...).

    Whatever...
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  8. #88
    I'd go along with a week downtime too for a significant upgrade to the system occuring with the merge of servers. Perhaps time could be saved by archiving accounts that have been inactive for a long time beforehand?

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    We really need some cheese in this thread
    Cheese!!! there you go...
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by neksus View Post
    Cheese!!! there you go...
    i actually just learned some things about cheese. finally some substance in this thread
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  11. #91
    Count me in for downtime to fix shizz!

    I think I can find a way to pass the time.
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  12. #92
    There are alot of folks already on a one week downtime...oh, wait.....
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  13. #93
    If Damon's in, I'm in.
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  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    Pick up the slack, Funcom. We've all grown used to an outdated engine, unbalanced classes, parry not working, etc. It's the new changes we need your communication on (think itemstore - which made me cancel personally -, think new GMS, think removing player cities, etc.)
    I might add that you can not put all the blame on lindelu, better put some of the blame into an envelop and mail it to Means and if you still got some blame left put it into another envelop and mail it Znore. The system is fubar since years but for the first time a GD is working ON the system instead of AROUND it. And do not forget that lindelu is a GD and not a PR person.

    Who knows where the current changes will lead AO to? So many classes are fubar since years, YEARS, so a few more months to see where this leads wont kill anybody except maybe AO but we are looking towards that for a long time now...

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Garremp View Post
    I might add that you can not put all the blame on lindelu, better put some of the blame into an envelop and mail it to Means and if you still got some blame left put it into another envelop and mail it Znore. The system is fubar since years but for the first time a GD is working ON the system instead of AROUND it. And do not forget that lindelu is a GD and not a PR person.

    Who knows where the current changes will lead AO to? So many classes are fubar since years, YEARS, so a few more months to see where this leads wont kill anybody except maybe AO but we are looking towards that for a long time now...
    Very true ... and maybe future communications will be more timely.

    Kinnik

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Garremp View Post
    I might add that you can not put all the blame on lindelu, better put some of the blame into an envelop and mail it to Means and if you still got some blame left put it into another envelop and mail it Znore. The system is fubar since years but for the first time a GD is working ON the system instead of AROUND it. And do not forget that lindelu is a GD and not a PR person.

    Who knows where the current changes will lead AO to? So many classes are fubar since years, YEARS, so a few more months to see where this leads wont kill anybody except maybe AO but we are looking towards that for a long time now...
    Actually you cant really fault Means, he was one of the best things in AO for many years, I don't remember many Ninja changes whilst he was at the helm and I believe the one towards the end were due to the changing of staff.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by wkdboi2 View Post
    Actually you cant really fault Means, he was one of the best things in AO for many years
    Well , yes and no.

    His first year was great and i was never as excited about AO as when he took over and released first few patches.

    Then he proceeded to run this game into the ground with weekly empty promises and never giving any attention to the real problem which was always the population.

    If i had to list two things i hear the most from people who quit , it'd be: tired of lies, and not enough players.

    So yeah, whatever state this game is in, you can blame Means all right.
    Last edited by IHaveHugeNick; Jun 2nd, 2012 at 22:18:44. Reason: sp

  18. #98
    So we canblame means for /pet hunt being removed No We can blame Means for removing auto attack No, We can blame Means for the New GMS which is not liked by anyone at this moment in time, We can blame Means for all that can We ???

  19. #99
    This is interesting. 6 months ago (almost) everyone was weeping about the departure of Means; hell - people wanted (and some still want) Funcom to create a statue of Means at ICC. Now - he's one of the main culprits of AO's failure.

    I don't idolize anyone, but I think Means did a fairly good job as a GD and had excellent communication skills. I really do hope Lindelu will be at least as good as him.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by wkdboi2 View Post
    So we canblame means for /pet hunt being removed No We can blame Means for removing auto attack No, We can blame Means for the New GMS which is not liked by anyone at this moment in time, We can blame Means for all that can We ???
    For all i care you can go ahead and even blame pope for those things , none of them happened yet last time i checked. When it hits live server i will check them out and see whats all the fuss about.

    Quote Originally Posted by BytEfLUSh2 View Post
    This is interesting. 6 months ago (almost) everyone was weeping about the departure of Means.
    Yep, one of benefits of chasing 90% of players away - the merry band of cheerleaders will stick around, playing their last song on a sinking ship.
    Last edited by IHaveHugeNick; Jun 2nd, 2012 at 22:53:18.

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