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Thread: Monthly Development Update: June 2012

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    People just have to adjust, it seems.
    They are "adjusting" by "Not playing".
    perhaps you could explain how this is a good thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by egadsrk2 View Post
    In the case of this little drama, Party A created a situation. Party B perpetuated it with name calling. Party A finished it with violence...
    I was "party A"

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Uaintseenme View Post
    They are "adjusting" by "Not playing".
    perhaps you could explain how this is a good thing?
    Aren't people constantly saying that AO is a hard and complex game of many mechanics that you need to master and that keeps out the WoW-noobs and so on? So I guess we're weeding out the WoW-noobs that were attracted over the years... but yeah, I guess the devs are working towards fixing some of the flagging issues introduced with the latest patch and its attempt at streamlining the mechanic.

    Maybe we're seeing AO go back towards being more accessible while retaining the hard part of old. I am looking much forward to seeing tons of hardcore nerfs to everyone. When specials go back to 30 second lockouts we can all be happy again.
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  3. #123
    It's a stupid mechanic with no benefits. Nobody likes it. The community has spoken. You seem to be pretty much the only person that I have ever seen defend the new flag system. The community has already given multiple different fixes to the "pocket pvp" problem. All of them better. They chose the worse possible way to "fix" the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undercutting View Post
    Bs isn't where the real pvp happens, tis' where the pvmers' go to feel like they've pvped.
    [Zacyx]: i will perma bann u from MR

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyingengi View Post
    There are 370 outdoor cities on RK. There are 2 servers. That's 740 cities. Let's assume 50m rent a month. We know that is a very low number. Let's assume 2% tax on shop sales. Let's assume that sales from shop alwys paid for city rent, which is a safe assumption. In order to get 50m in tax, a shop needs to sell 2.5 billion. 2.5 billion across 740 city shops would net 1.85 trillion a month. Now, that is with a very, very conservative 50m a city rent. That is also not counting the neutral orgs shops that were rented. Those shops probably sold 50+ billion each.
    I am in a neutral org, we have a medium city with a rent of 22m. Our org started our city with no excess credits in our org bank, we had to borrow from friends to buy the city and make the buildings. In past years we were making more than our rent with only 1% commission rate ... so 3 - 5 billion is sales per month, if I did the math correctly. In the most recent months we were just making rent or a bit lower. So we have the credits to wait out this tax building debate ... from the sound of it we won't be able to build (because of late of space) until after the server merge and we move to an I-city.

    Not sure if our numbers help in the comparison to the numbers quoted in the June update. I am guessing that on average every outdoor player city with a market was making more credits than they needed for rent or FC wouldn't see the need for a credit sink.

    If the GMI continues as it is going lately, we may not build the tax building at all. So far our members who have tried selling on the new GMI have removed their items and either stopped selling or cut back significantly. There is no point for the tax building if our org-mates aren't using the GMI enough to produce a useful return.

    Kinnik

  5. #125

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Kopecz View Post
    See what you did now FC?! SEE!

    On a side note, why the hell do we need a tax building at all when there's already an org tax functionality in game. It's something orgs have never used much, if at all, because city shops were taxed and were capable of supporting city upkeep quite easily. Now it will actually serve a real purpose no?
    We looked into the org tax functionality awhile back... it's not working as one would think it works (lets just say it has issues), and it's something we want to revisit when we get to more comprehensive org improvements... but this is down the road. It's not something we have time to touch right now due to everything that's going on. The team felt a better, and more immediate feature to give orgs an income is the building/market house.
    Last edited by Ilaliya; Jul 9th, 2012 at 16:39:40.

  6. #126
    So if our org don't have the tax monkey house, we still pay sales tax but get well... let's call it a popular treatment buff often cast by doctors?
    Last edited by Notcrattey; Today at 05:51:45. Reason: Didn't actually edit it, was a mistake!

  7. #127
    Players (even those who left AO months or years ago) usually had their shops full of items, including common nanos, implants, and all kind of crap.

    Launching GMI has reduced A LOT availability of all common/normal items and that is the biggest problem!

    With old shops I could buy easily most of implants of different QL, majority (if not all) of rollable nanos etc.

    Now buying majority of those for a leveling toon is a dissaster because there are only 2 options:

    1. The item I need like rollable nano or popular dyna drop is not listed by anybody on boths server
    2. There is only 1 nano for 10-20m when in the past there were always 10+ nanos sold priced between 500k and 2-3m maximum.

    If it was intentional then I would never understand who would like to ruin economy and playability by doing this.

    If it was unintentional then [edited before I got more infraction points for verbal abuse of FC staff]
    Awikun 220/70/30 Ranged adv - my Main that I hardly ever log
    Awisha 220/70/30 Shade - Can solo 95% of all bosses
    Cratawi 200/70/30 Crat - S7/DR Solo farmer
    Awiken 220/70/30 Eng - Pvm Eng
    Nukiwa 200/70/30 NT - almost forgotten (awaiting retwink)
    Awidoc 200/70/30 Doc - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awix 200/70/30 Fix - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awienf 220/70/30 Enf - tanked every single boss (and still lives)
    Soldawi 220/70/30 Sol - Pvm Sold
    Awima 150/xx/xx Ma - best S10 MA farmer
    Doctorawi 220/70/30 - Pvm Doc
    Awienfo 200/70/30 - Atrox with Pande red belt and 2xQL300 hammers
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    Zlakobieta 220/70/30 - max complit +top tradeskiller

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    We looked into the org tax functionality awhile back... it's not working as one would think it works (lets just say it has issues). It's not something we have time to touch right now due to everything that's going on. The team felt a better, and more immediate feature to give orgs an income is the building/market house.
    Yes, the infamous FC bandaid solution to everything. No, really, why would you want to actually resolve a coding issue?
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  9. #129

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Kopecz View Post
    Yes, the infamous FC bandaid solution to everything.
    Considering that the org tax building is something that we've talked about fairly early on in the process as a feature of the market, I wouldn't call it a band-aid. Any more so than any feature you spend time on is a "band-aid."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kopecz View Post
    No, really, why would you want to actually resolve a coding issue?
    We didn't want to divert coding resources away from other high priority projects -- such as the server merge, market improvements, engine upgrade, new player experience, profession changes, etc... to dig into really old org tax code. Basically, that was the call that was made, and (obviously) I think that's the right call. You are free to disagree, however.
    Last edited by Ilaliya; Jul 9th, 2012 at 18:06:39.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Awikun View Post
    Players (even those who left AO months or years ago) usually had their shops...
    locked down.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
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  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Kopecz View Post
    Yes, the infamous FC bandaid solution to everything. No, really, why would you want to actually resolve a coding issue?
    Because they promised a profession re-balance and a new graphics engine. I agree that the taxing and many other changes are needed, but I want them to concentrate on finishing something before starting on something else. If AO is to have a future, the re-balance and graphics engine will be required.

    Funcom knows the formula to kill AO. Make lots of promises about things that are coming and never deliver them. Make changes that nobody wants and then break other stuff. The population will dwindle to the point that nobody will care if they shut down the servers. In other words, continue what they have been doing the last few years (intentional or not). We have repeatedly asked for more progress reports (pictures) but only seen a minute video (we have seen that trick before). How are we to know if progress is being made or their milking us? Ilaliya said they made progress last month and will make more progress this month.

  12. #132

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Socrattes View Post
    We have repeatedly asked for more progress reports (pictures) but only seen a minute video (we have seen that trick before).
    Let me ask you an honest question here. Other than a delivered, fully-working engine, what sort of progress indicator would you actually consider meaningful and not a "trick"?

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Let me ask you an honest question here. Other than a delivered, fully-working engine, what sort of progress indicator would you actually consider meaningful and not a "trick"?
    silliy ilaliya. don't you know that logic has no place in an fc h8 circlejerk?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Let me ask you an honest question here. Other than a delivered, fully-working engine, what sort of progress indicator would you actually consider meaningful and not a "trick"?
    Fix OMHH
    Fix Mongo
    Remove AS pistol
    Lockout 1he/1hb perks working simultaneously like you should have the first time
    Fix Devastating Blow so it's 100% vs 100% instead of 100% vs 50%
    Fixers with EVERY ranged special
    Buff Agent PvM damage
    Remove RI spammability
    Remove effing Triples
    Nerf Crats more, they are still godmode

    I'll stop there as that's enough for 1 patch.
    Last edited by Kopecz; Jul 9th, 2012 at 18:19:59.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Let me ask you an honest question here. Other than a delivered, fully-working engine, what sort of progress indicator would you actually consider meaningful and not a "trick"?
    I suspect a living game world would help. I know that there was a leet in a picture somewhere, but I suspect progress will feel real when it's relevant to the players. Some pictures/videos that include players interacting with the content, maybe with the new GUI, would go a long way. I understand that you're not there yet; I'm giving you my opinionated answer to your question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    i might be a troll

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Let me ask you an honest question here. Other than a delivered, fully-working engine, what sort of progress indicator would you actually consider meaningful and not a "trick"?
    Speaking as one of the less technologically advanced folks (meaning I'm not a programmer and do not work on PC's for a living like it seems many posters do). Most of the updates you guys have given over the years actually go over my head and mean almost nothing to me.

    I'd like to see something, written in layman's terms, that explains progress. It doesn't have to be lengthy or overly detailed. I'd expect it to be no more than 5 or 6 lines something like:

    Target Goal-Date/Description

    August 2012/ Some short descript here

    October 2012/ Beta Server Up

    January 2013/ Something Else

    March 2013/ Go live with dual clients

    June 2013/ Etc Etc

    Basically something simplistic that gives non-techies an idea of timelines without having to come up with wild guesstimates in our head based off of information we don't understand. I think that's been my biggest frustration with the communication. I see things like 'we need to update our toolset' or 'we need to import assets' or whatever and I have no idea if that's a week project or a year as I don't work in your industry. Basically you end up telling me a lot of nothing.

    While I don't agree with a lot of changes you guys have made, thus far you guys have been fairly decent about meeting commitments and expectations. So seeing what type of timeline you're working on would be something interesting to me as a player.
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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Hey guys,

    Posting on behalf of Fia.

    ...

    • The Keeper Aura "Courage of the Just" will no longer affecting the vicinity, instead it has been converted to a Team Aura. This is a change that is good for letting the user gain control over who they buff, and as part of a larger attempt to stabilize our performance and get rid of some lag. The fear resistance part of this aura will be shared with the team, and the add all def modifier will be Keeper only. In addition to this chance, casting this aura will now remove fear from your team mates, to accompany this we have added a short local cooldown.

    I have one thing i'd like clarifying here, since one of main/only PvM uses for this nano (and what i'm presuming is one of the main reasons the instance i'm gunna mention works like it does) is the 12m LoX raid. When you say it'll be "shared with the team" do you actually mean it will shared with the raidforce, or are we going to start needing 1 keeper per team for it to be even the slightest bit sensible in 12m? (before anyone points out that it is in fact *possible* to do this raid wihout a keeper at all, i've done it this way before, it was a pain in the bum even with 2 full teams of friendly org mates.)

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Let me ask you an honest question here. Other than a delivered, fully-working engine, what sort of progress indicator would you actually consider meaningful and not a "trick"?
    To stop "fixing" things that aren't broken. Or at least when you do, actually fix them. Do you know what your pvp patch fixed? Nothing. People still pocket heal lowbies in cities. Every time I've flagged up on a lowbie alt since the patch, it's happened. Do you know why? Most the people that are doing it are pvp twinks themselves and don't care about the flag. Your "solution" did nothing to the problem. All it did was inconvenience everybody else.

    Want to make my happy? Explain why the much praised and player back suggestion of fixing this problem was not implemented. You should require anybody that wants to buff a flagged player to be in their level ranged and flagged themselves. Sure, it would have taken a little more coding to begin with. But then you wouldn't have had to re-code every friendly aura to be team only. Which, in essence, destroyed most of the fun in MASS PVP.

    I'm waiting for your response that will never show up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undercutting View Post
    Bs isn't where the real pvp happens, tis' where the pvmers' go to feel like they've pvped.
    [Zacyx]: i will perma bann u from MR

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    I'd like to see something, written in layman's terms, that explains progress. It doesn't have to be lengthy or overly detailed. I'd expect it to be no more than 5 or 6 lines something like:
    New Engine - Announced: June 2007 ETA: Soon™
    Rebalancing - Announced: January 2009 ETA: December 21, 2012
    New TL7 Pets - Announced: March 2009 ETA: Uh...
    AS Changes - Announced: July 2009 ETA: TBA
    Parry/Riposte - Announced: October 2009 ETA: ???
    Perk Changes - Announced: October 2009 ETA: Right after server merge
    Breed Change - Announced: November 2009 ETA: Hell freezing
    Beta Server - Announced: January 2010 ETA: Pigs Flying


    Courtesy of Rocker
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaurt View Post
    I have one thing i'd like clarifying here, since one of main/only PvM uses for this nano (and what i'm presuming is one of the main reasons the instance i'm gunna mention works like it does) is the 12m LoX raid. When you say it'll be "shared with the team" do you actually mean it will shared with the raidforce, or are we going to start needing 1 keeper per team for it to be even the slightest bit sensible in 12m? (before anyone points out that it is in fact *possible* to do this raid wihout a keeper at all, i've done it this way before, it was a pain in the bum even with 2 full teams of friendly org mates.)
    The second one. 12man will officially become 6man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undercutting View Post
    Bs isn't where the real pvp happens, tis' where the pvmers' go to feel like they've pvped.
    [Zacyx]: i will perma bann u from MR

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