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Thread: Monthly Development Update: August 2012

  1. #141
    Hiya, Thanks for using my video in the update! I appreciate all the hard work that is being done!
    Catpuccino 220 MP

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Cindersylph View Post
    Neutrals aren't a faction, they're a collection of everyone who is not Omni or Clan, and as such can be any number of different factions, but there is no common bond in the neutral camp.
    Cyborgs, Dreadloch, Medusa, Mutants, Mercenaries


    And that's just counting RK "factions" that aren't covered by your "collection of everyone who is not Omni or Clan"

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Cyborgs, Dreadloch, Medusa, Mutants, Mercenaries


    And that's just counting RK "factions" that aren't covered by your "collection of everyone who is not Omni or Clan"
    And if you read the lore you'll see that Neutrals are such factions as SOL Banking, ICC, and others. Every organisation of neutral players is its own faction. For ease of implementation, they are just stuffed together in one pile and called "neutrals" to allow for such things as 3 way pvp, which was never a thing, precisely because they're "neutral" and most players are attracted by the advantages and strength of having an actual side to identify with. If neutrals had been labeled differently and implemented differently, it would've been a different story. Look at Planetside for instance.

    But just to clarify, cyborgs, Dreadloch Arms, the medusas, the mercenaries, Dustbrigade, they are all neutral in the matter of Clan vs Omni. Mutants I don't know if I'd even call a faction. That'd be like saying hobos are a faction.
    Last edited by Cindersylph; Sep 10th, 2012 at 09:02:17.
    Ebony Cindersylph Sunset - Gothic Enforcer
    Pain leads to ascension... let me be your guide.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Why dwell in the past? ... with "balancing" comes change ....

    Besides the towers we hold are 'real' our defenders should be allowed to be 'real' too.

    Kinnik
    i agree. they should "change" neuts to not be allowed to hold towers.

  5. #145
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Byste's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    While we are trying for balance, etc. among professions ...

    Lets make it so Neutrals have the same access to token boards, armor, etc. as Omni and Clan.

    We are expected to defend our towers against Omni or Clan and the Neutrals that heal them while attacking our Neutral towers.

    We Neutrals should be able to wear the same equipment, token boards, etc. as our attackers have access to.

    Kinnik
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    We are expected to defend our towers against Omni or Clan and the Neutrals that heal them while attacking our Neutral towers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    and the Neutrals that heal them while attacking our Neutral towers.
    Ahahahaha. So you were that 100 player complaining about not being able to attack a 156 neutral *gimp* doctor while it wasn't doing a damn thing.
    Clan for life

    Great orgs:
    -Defenders of Rubi Ka (PvM)
    -Devil Inside (PvP)
    -Equilibrium


    Quote Originally Posted by jijie2 View Post
    have no make stone to for sword we make sword box for sword to put sword in for sword ?

  6. #146
    I love your sig
    Last edited by Lazy; Sep 10th, 2012 at 12:02:43.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Byste View Post
    Ahahahaha. So you were that 100 player complaining about not being able to attack a 156 neutral *gimp* doctor while it wasn't doing a damn thing.
    She(your alt) was healing a clan enfo (your alt) attacking our neutral towers.

    She was doing something ... she was healing your enfo and others during a tower attack. She should have been flagged and attackable by anyone in her range, but she wasn't. Our neutral defenders in her range could not attack her ... we kept getting the message you can not attack a toon of the same side as the conflict.

    Kinnik

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    She(your alt) was healing a clan enfo (your alt) attacking our neutral towers.

    She was doing something ... she was healing your enfo and others during a tower attack. She should have been flagged and attackable by anyone in her range, but she wasn't. Our neutral defenders in her range could not attack her ... we kept getting the message you can not attack a toon of the same side as the conflict.

    Kinnik
    I recommend learning about how flag mechanics work before you start trying to do towers.

    PROTIP: you can't get a flag off someone that isn't flagged
    Last edited by Lazy; Sep 10th, 2012 at 16:46:24.

  9. #149
    So I guess Lazy, you must like the idea that for instance a clan alt of an omni can come heal omni attacking a clan tower field. Or as I have seen clanners with an appropriate "side" outside doc attacking. Guess that falls under "good strategy" even though the pocket docs heal the attackers and cast ubt on defender without getting flagged or even allowed to be attacked. Wow, some kind of pretzel logic.

    Lets go back to the original pvp rules. You hit a tower 4 hour flag. You hit another player with nano, deduff, or physical, 4 hour flag. Along with the new rule of casting to aid a flagged player (maybe 5 minute is ok, but would prefer 4 hour), that should stop a great deal of the nonsense going on in disguise of "good strategy."

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Deemure View Post
    So I guess Lazy, you must like the idea that for instance a clan alt of an omni can come heal omni attacking a clan tower field. Or as I have seen clanners with an appropriate "side" outside doc attacking. Guess that falls under "good strategy" even though the pocket docs heal the attackers and cast ubt on defender without getting flagged or even allowed to be attacked. Wow, some kind of pretzel logic.
    they can do that if they want. it really doesn't matter. but of course you'd know that if you knew how flag mechanics worked.

    EDIT: are all rk2ers as clueless as you and kinnick?
    Last edited by Lazy; Sep 10th, 2012 at 18:11:26.

  11. #151
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Byste's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    She(your alt) was healing a clan enfo (your alt) attacking our neutral towers.

    She was doing something ... she was healing your enfo and others during a tower attack. She should have been flagged and attackable by anyone in her range, but she wasn't. Our neutral defenders in her range could not attack her ... we kept getting the message you can not attack a toon of the same side as the conflict.

    Kinnik
    False.

    When she was teamed with my enforcer (and healing/attacking/UBTing, or even NOT doing those things), she was quite attackable.

    When she wasn't teamed, she wasn't doing any of those things, just standing there, and therefore technically your ally, since she's neut and all.

    Ask your orgmates better, cuz she died several times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    they can do that if they want. it really doesn't matter. but of course you'd know that if you knew how flag mechanics worked.

    EDIT: are all rk2ers as clueless as you and kinnick?
    Heyyyy you know that's not fair; these are neut pvmers we're talking about

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    I love your sig
    Me too!
    Last edited by Byste; Sep 10th, 2012 at 18:22:35.
    Clan for life

    Great orgs:
    -Defenders of Rubi Ka (PvM)
    -Devil Inside (PvP)
    -Equilibrium


    Quote Originally Posted by jijie2 View Post
    have no make stone to for sword we make sword box for sword to put sword in for sword ?

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Byste View Post
    Heyyyy you know that's not fair; these are neut pvmers we're talking about
    imo neuts shouldn't have forum access.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Cindersylph View Post
    And if you read the lore you'll see that Neutrals are such factions as SOL Banking, ICC, and others. Every organisation of neutral players is its own faction. For ease of implementation, they are just stuffed together in one pile and called "neutrals" to allow for such things as 3 way pvp, which was never a thing, precisely because they're "neutral" and most players are attracted by the advantages and strength of having an actual side to identify with. If neutrals had been labeled differently and implemented differently, it would've been a different story. Look at Planetside for instance.

    But just to clarify, cyborgs, Dreadloch Arms, the medusas, the mercenaries, Dustbrigade, they are all neutral in the matter of Clan vs Omni. Mutants I don't know if I'd even call a faction. That'd be like saying hobos are a faction.
    I know the lore. I was pointing out how incorrect your statement was. Probably because it deals in absolutes, Sith.

  14. #154
    Well, there they go again. The same group that thinks pvp as implemented is great and wonderful, or should be made even more of what it already is going after those with different opinions. Seen it on way too many threads too many times. From my perspective, every time they have changed pvp over the last few years to make pvp "more assessible and enjoyable," they have consistently enabled more "creative strategies" that have actually reduced the enjoyment of pvp. Currently, in most instances it is little more than how many outside buffs can I get, how much outside help, haw much special equipment can I get, how many "creative strategies" can I figure out.

    They toon skill set and toolkit are little more than an afterthought. When I started playing, it took knowledge and use of your toolkit to pvp. Not now. I am sure this will get flamed as all the other "non-acceptable" comments have been. But the changes that have occurred continue to take pvp in the wrong direction from my perspective. Dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator. Probably why I rarely participate anylonger, it just isn't as fun as it used to be.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    I recommend learning about how flag mechanics work before you start trying to do towers.

    PROTIP: you can't get a flag off someone that isn't flagged
    I know you can't get a flag for healing an un-flagged toon ... that is my point! Byste's doctor didn't get flagged even though she was healing a clan tower attacker ... she should have been flagged for this activity. Just because FC did not think of this scenario when they changed the pvp rules does not mean it is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    imo neuts shouldn't have forum access.
    Neither should Bytse then I guess, she is neutral. I wouldn't be surprised if you have a neutral toon as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byste View Post
    False.

    When she was teamed with my enforcer (and healing/attacking/UBTing, or even NOT doing those things), she was quite attackable.

    When she wasn't teamed, she wasn't doing any of those things, just standing there, and therefore technically your ally, since she's neut and all.

    Ask your orgmates better, cuz she died several times.
    I did ask my orgmates ... my neutral orgmates could not attack your doctor. From what I could see and was told, only the omni friends that came to help us could hit your doctor.

    I am not sure how a defender can be expected to tell when she was teamed or not ... she should have been flagged and wasn't.

    I am aware that "technically" she was an ally and that your enforcer wasn't flagged for attacking because you have towers so attacking other towers doesn't flag you. That does not make the activity "correct".

    The point of my posts was that this was a "loop-hole" in the new/recently changed pvp rules and that your doctor should have been flagged so that the 'same side' rule would be over-ridden.

    Kinnik

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    We Neutrals should be able to wear the same equipment, token boards, etc. as our attackers have access to.
    Everytime you login and don't sign a corporate shill/unwashed terrorist application form, you're making a choice to not have the same equipment options as those factions.

    I don't see the problem.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Biancha View Post
    Everytime you login and don't sign a corporate shill/unwashed terrorist application form, you're making a choice to not have the same equipment options as those factions.

    I don't see the problem.


    Wow, perhaps we should go back to the original concept. You know the one where omni had all the cool equipment and weapons and clan didn't. Cause every time you chose to log in a clan toon you were deciding to go with a faction that did not have such items.

    Over the years, largely as a result of a whole lot of comments on the forums, clanner received equipment comperable to what was available to omni. Guess that was ok, but neutrals should not have such.

    The mind boggles. personally would like to see them take the sided identifier off all items, including token boards, etc. Who cares if you earned them as clan or omni or neutral. Otherwise it is nothing more a version of well I got mine, but you --- well you can't have any because we need some less well equipped people we can easily kill.

    Not particularly funny in real life, but downright hysterical in pictal worlds.

  18. #158
    Why even have sides :|
    Ebony Cindersylph Sunset - Gothic Enforcer
    Pain leads to ascension... let me be your guide.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Deemure View Post
    Wow, perhaps we should go back to the original concept. You know the one where omni had all the cool equipment and weapons and clan didn't. Cause every time you chose to log in a clan toon you were deciding to go with a faction that did not have such items.

    Over the years, largely as a result of a whole lot of comments on the forums, clanner received equipment comperable to what was available to omni. Guess that was ok, but neutrals should not have such.
    There's a storyline reason for clans getting better items. More raids, perhaps capturing important objectives. Research and development, perhaps some reverse engineering was done. Maybe clans just got better technology and were able to recreate the effects through a different method than the omni items.

    What's the storyline reason for neutrals? These factions are neutral for a reason, because it doesn't benefit them to get caught up in the omni vs clan war, yet you're all arguing that you should be part of the war. Instead of trying to get items for neutrals, pick a faction or try to convince FC to change your side from neutral to a third faction.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Deemure View Post
    Over the years, largely as a result of a whole lot of comments on the forums, clanner received equipment comperable to what was available to omni. Guess that was ok, but neutrals should not have such.
    I see what you're saying, but I just disagree. Staying "neutral" in AO is one of the few character choices left that means anything at all, and that's part of what I like about it.

    If people are freaking out about points on their neck item maybe they should reconsider their position and sign up with a "real" faction. Or, I guess they can continue in discussions like this and hope that Funcom continues to make changes they want, that's fair enough.

    I'd rather have more meaningful and diverse story-based stuff in game though, and not have the game keep moving toward more sameness.

    Just my opinion /shrug

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