Garden Key Quests

[sultryvoltron]

What was the point of nerfing the XP gain on those?

It was bad that people could grind SK solo without just logging on for dailies or spending an eternity doing Inf missions until their eyes bleed?

I just can't wrap my head around the reasoning behind that nerf.

[Mastablasta]

Probably that noone did them at the intended level, meaning people go through the game having a different, poorer experience than intended, and the whole thing about giving 10% of a lvl 220's lvl for finishing a nascence quest seems a bit silly when doing the inferno key quest is a million times harder so having the same reward level decreases the attraction of the highend quests.

[Lazy]

Probably that noone did them at the intended level, meaning people go through the game having a different, poorer experience than intended, and the whole thing about giving 10% of a lvl 220's lvl for finishing a nascence quest seems a bit silly when doing the inferno key quest is a million times harder so having the same reward level decreases the attraction of the highend quests.

so now instead of no one doing them at intended level no one does them ever. i dont see how that's any better.

[Mastablasta]

so now instead of no one doing them at intended level no one does them ever. i dont see how that's any better.

That is once again people's own choice. If they want to ruin the game for themselves, then there's nothing the devs can do to stop them. But then, who am I to guess at this. It's after all a thread that needs a response from the devs. Sorry for my reply, please disregard its content.

[Lazy]

That is once again people's own choice. If they want to ruin the game for themselves, then there's nothing the devs can do to stop them. But then, who am I to guess at this. It's after all a thread that needs a response from the devs. Sorry for my reply, please disregard its content.

confirmed: players would rather devs waste time answering forum posts than work on new engine.

[sultryvoltron]

Probably that noone did them at the intended level, meaning people go through the game having a different, poorer experience than intended, and the whole thing about giving 10% of a lvl 220's lvl for finishing a nascence quest seems a bit silly when doing the inferno key quest is a million times harder so having the same reward level decreases the attraction of the highend quests.

Probably because leveling in the 215-220 range is absolutely miserable and by far one of the worst parts of the game in my opinion.

[Saetos]

Probably because leveling in the 215-220 range is absolutely miserable and by far one of the worst parts of the game in my opinion.

Agreed. I have a Shade stuck at 217 and a Soldier stuck at 218 because leveling them feels like I'm waging a war of attrition against a barely creeping XP bar. There is not one alternative, other than dailies, to Inferno missions.

[Mastablasta]

Probably because leveling in the 215-220 range is absolutely miserable and by far one of the worst parts of the game in my opinion.

Heh, it's a walk in the park, and it's not like that quest change impacted that in any meaningful way, it's just kneejerk OMFG YOU RUINED IT ALL when in fact if you just ground out missions in the time it took you to finish those quests you'd get the same XP. Back in the day people used to stop at lvl 215 because lvling above was considered only for the elite hardcore no lifers. We used to grind 10 hours a day and see maybe 20% increase in xp to next lvl...

[Ekarona]

Probably because leveling in the 215-220 range is absolutely miserable and by far one of the worst parts of the game in my opinion.

Nah leveling with dailys is piece of cake. The research is the ...... ...... ...... part...

[Otansaanpas]

doing those xan-quests without a key is too much for me and leaving them to 215+ levels is plain stupid.

[lainbr]

Its so cool how ppl forget that there was almost no xp/sk reward from those Key quests. Its also fun to see ppl complaining bout inf mishs today. In the long past there was no missions at all. And in the not long past SL missions had no reward and nobody cared if the puller was 219 or 215 :3

[sultryvoltron]

Heh, it's a walk in the park, and it's not like that quest change impacted that in any meaningful way, it's just kneejerk OMFG YOU RUINED IT ALL when in fact if you just ground out missions in the time it took you to finish those quests you'd get the same XP. Back in the day people used to stop at lvl 215 because lvling above was considered only for the elite hardcore no lifers. We used to grind 10 hours a day and see maybe 20% increase in xp to next lvl...

But having an alternative to said Inf missions is bad?

[Mastablasta]

But having an alternative to said Inf missions is bad?

Not at all. I just don't think it should be quests in lvl 15 areas, and as such I don't think that the lowbie quests should be that source or that their fix should be lamented. Instead, I think we should have suggestions for what could be changed at that range, other than the oft stated "remove 5% caps on lvl 10 research", which should be removed.

[Loucretia]

....people go through the game having a different, poorer experience than intended

That is just soo subjective.

For me the poorer experience is grinding 210-220.

Yes, you may think its thrilling doing more inferno missions than you have had meals, but many people would rather take just about any alternative however "appropriate" you may think it is.

I would have no major problem with them "fixing" this if they had put in an alternative first, but as it is its just a major turn off - especially when the chance of even doing missions is vastly diminished. There was 1 omni on lft tonight - an all time low.

Things have moved on from the time most people were happy to do 12 hours of mind numbing repetition.

At this point in time the change was stupid.

[Mastablasta]

That is just soo subjective.

For me the poorer experience is grinding 210-220.

Yes, you may think its thrilling doing more inferno missions than you have had meals, but many people would rather take just about any alternative however "appropriate" you may think it is.

I would have no major problem with them "fixing" this if they had put in an alternative first, but as it is its just a major turn off - especially when the chance of even doing missions is vastly diminished. There was 1 omni on lft tonight - an all time low.

Things have moved on from the time most people were happy to do 12 hours of mind numbing repetition.

At this point in time the change was stupid.

OK. So not having garden keys throughout the leveling experience is considered less of a nuisance than being able to skip... what, 1, 2 levels at that range by doing a couple of simple quests? Bear with me here, I am not an alt lvling person, I haven't bothered lvling an alt to that high a range, because of the gear grind, but how much is it? How much XP was actually contained in the garden quests for a 210+ character?

I don't think it's thrilling to do inferno missions. Inferno missions are far too easy for the people doing it now a days with lowbies tagging a long. Back in the day we used to fear hecklers in Inferno, pulling two could mean certain death for a team if the team wasn't exceptional and there wasn't a calmer around... it wasn't a walk in the park, every teaming moment till you hit past 210 in average on the team was tense. I'd like something equally challenging today, though the reward could be scaled up 1000% pr time compared to what we had back then. Man that was the most brutal grind ever... I hope you never experience it.

[drainbamage]

OK. So not having garden keys throughout the leveling experience is considered less of a nuisance than being able to skip... what, 1, 2 levels at that range by doing a couple of simple quests? Bear with me here, I am not an alt lvling person, I haven't bothered lvling an alt to that high a range, because of the gear grind, but how much is it? How much XP was actually contained in the garden quests for a 210+ character?

It was significant enough that if you saved up all the non-level-capped quests you could go from 216 (possibly 217 or 218, can't remember the exact level) to 220 or close.

It wasn't a whole lot but it helped relieve the boredom. But now we're back to just flat-out grinding to 220, especially since dailies at 215+ are just pathetic.

[Loucretia]

OK. So not having garden keys throughout the leveling experience is considered less of a nuisance than being able to skip... what, 1, 2 levels at that range by doing a couple of simple quests? Bear with me here, I am not an alt lvling person, I haven't bothered lvling an alt to that high a range, because of the gear grind, but how much is it? How much XP was actually contained in the garden quests for a 210+ character?

I don't think it's thrilling to do inferno missions. Inferno missions are far too easy for the people doing it now a days with lowbies tagging a long. Back in the day we used to fear hecklers in Inferno, pulling two could mean certain death for a team if the team wasn't exceptional and there wasn't a calmer around... it wasn't a walk in the park, every teaming moment till you hit past 210 in average on the team was tense. I'd like something equally challenging today, though the reward could be scaled up 1000% pr time compared to what we had back then. Man that was the most brutal grind ever... I hope you never experience it.

It was always useful to have Pen key and Ado key, the rest could be skipped unless you did a lot of leveling in ely.

The sk was close to 2 levels if you did them at 215. Add to that the inf quests and you were almost there. That is a LOT of inferno missions avoided.

And yes i did experience the whole heckler thing. There were no inf missions when i started - there was no SL. And when SL came in I grinded out hecklers as much as I could stand for many hours at a time like many others.

With 5 accounts and 15-20 toons over 205 my experience is clearly different to yours.

There is a balance to be struck and its different for everyone. But as you say you havent bothered to level any alts that high, perhaps this is a pain in the **** you havent had to put up with as often as others.

[Gaveup]

Well I just had a thought thanks to Loucretia, it's been said when the new engine arrives not everything will be there. Today they announced you'll be able to purchase garden keys inplace of doing the quests for them, as well as other removing the need to do other paid content to reap the rewards. So are these things being done, removing the XP/SK reward from garden quests as an example as a pre-emptive strike at moving people away from these paid content quests because they simply won't exsist soon?

Have fun with that!

[sultryvoltron]

OK. So not having garden keys throughout the leveling experience is considered less of a nuisance than being able to skip... what, 1, 2 levels at that range by doing a couple of simple quests? Bear with me here, I am not an alt lvling person, I haven't bothered lvling an alt to that high a range, because of the gear grind, but how much is it? How much XP was actually contained in the garden quests for a 210+ character?

I don't think it's thrilling to do inferno missions. Inferno missions are far too easy for the people doing it now a days with lowbies tagging a long. Back in the day we used to fear hecklers in Inferno, pulling two could mean certain death for a team if the team wasn't exceptional and there wasn't a calmer around... it wasn't a walk in the park, every teaming moment till you hit past 210 in average on the team was tense. I'd like something equally challenging today, though the reward could be scaled up 1000% pr time compared to what we had back then. Man that was the most brutal grind ever... I hope you never experience it.

I'm neutral, so 36 daily missions worth.

[Gimpynoob]

The endgame grind should be alleviated by other means then giving disproportionate rewards to key quests. Specially making those rewards scale with the level of the players. The key quests should have a fixed reward. Because they are specific rewards that benefit the player at specific levels.