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Thread: A Small Item Shop Update

  1. #41
    I strongly disagree with any kind of permanent grid nano outside the professions who already have this option.
    Screwed over for the last time.

    Go find a new game to play, this one no longer deserves respect.

  2. #42
    So after reading all the thread and thinking about it I will post my feelings.

    Breed Change - While it would be nice to undo breed screw ups and avoid re-leveling a toon from level 1 I feel that the game will become Atrox-Online. Why? The games unreasonable and unrelenting quest for more and more powerful items. The fact that Atrox as a breed choice works for every class now screams that power is unbalanced across all the items in the game. Add to this the "Raid Buff Nano Cans" and I really don't know how any choice other than Atrox will be acceptable. What I am saying is - as a single point of interest it is a great idea but taken in context with all the other changes and additions this really is a step towards Atrox-Online.

    Garden Keys - Frankly, I think keys in the shops are just fine with pieces in place to avoid obvious problems and abuses. Of course FC needs to answer is this just Gardens or do they mean Garden and Sanc keys. Sanc keys are pretty powerful items and would change the twinking game for level 1-25 twinks for sure. Just the extra NCU would huge for TL1 twinking. Both Garden and Sanc keys give big Treatment boost and twinking a level 1 with a Inf Sanc key would be a huge advantage not mention this would make it easier to get +10 rings on said toon as well. Will it destroy the inf key pb set market? Yes. But overall this is a step towards "pay to win" and Sanc keys would be a bigger step if included in this.

    Heckler Juice - OK some are taking this is an XP% earned increase sort of like XP constructs but it reads more like it is pure XP gets added to you total XP. So I have questions about it. If it is pure XP is it also pure SK for toons over 200? If it is pure XP/SK does it go into Research if we are 100% research? I think FC needs to explain this better because if it is pure XP and it goes into research then we have buyable LE70 in some form. That would be a clear pay to win scenario. WTB more info please.

    Combat Buff Cans - Again I read this like everyone else as 12-man buff in a can. But then I re-read it and could it be just normal buffs that are used by all classes when buffing up for a raid? So I want to know for sure if this "Raid Reward Buff in a can" or is this like "RRFE in a can" and other common "please give me ABC before the raid starts" type buffs. If it is like "RRFE in a can" type buffs then I think they just screwed PVP in a very unpleasant way. I agree that "12 man in can" will screw up PVP to some extent but with the new stacking order of these buffs it will be limited to 2 or 3 that people buy. On the other hand the "RRFE in a can" type buffs would really just blow the PVP world a part. How many of them would you have to buy and use to remain competitive? WTB more specific info on which buffs are in these "Combat Nano Cans".

    Gender Change - Whatever. Don't care. Has no impact on actual game play. This is actually a good vanity item to have in store. But coupled with breed change it will never get bought as we will all be Atrox as really not being one will impact you negatively.

    Grid Nano - WTF? For the love of god just finally fix Run Speed. Make Run Speed like a top priority for code changes and all these give everyone a warp/grid/jet bike will not be needed. It is time to address the cause of complaint about moving around in AO and that is RUN SPEED! Before you take the tool set of the fixer and just destroy it completely please fix the problem. I already don't care for the instant grid beacons now. But I live with them because Run Speed is so broken. This is the old FC "we can't fix it because... but we can add... and problem TCO'd" nonsense that has created more problems than it ever addressed. You want the grid to be available to everyone then fix the grid entrance and exit requirements to be lower so that more people can use it sooner. Add grid exits at all outpost and cities on RK. Make the grid viable but leave the requirement that you still move through the world some to get to a grid terminal. With proper run speed and grid terminals in every outpost and city moving around would be much easier. I absolutely oppose these items.

    Recall Beacons - First, the new one best be in the vet store as well. Second all these items even the ones in the game now coupled with your Garden Key for sale is just over powered. Buy recall beacon for SL. Buy Inf Garden Key. All at level 1. Equip key. Recall to inf garden and save. But this is about the Recall beacons themselves. If you are going to sell a new one that takes you to your last save place then every one is going to be saved in Pande garden. Coupled with all the keys and a player will have total SL access at level 1. That I am sure was never intended.

    Side Change - This comes off as a money grab. Level 200 and below can side change now for free basically in game. But 201+ is going to have to pay for it? Just how much of the players are 201+ that log in each day? Sure feels like a money grab to me. My advice sure go ahead and be prepared to weather a hell of storm when you do.

    Twinking Buff Cans - Will say this once more in this thread. Just make it easy, create one "Twinkers Buff Can" that has SFA, BEH, ES, FG, PS, etc.. in it that uses 1 NCU and last 5 minutes and all that. Really these feel like money grabs and still make it worth my time to level buffing alts for some of these. But one can that gave me every possible buff and took 1 NCU would be something people would buy and use. But as it is that is a lot of FC points to spend to get buff cans for all those. Until FC can fix the population problem I see no other option than these twinking buff cans. So I am very torn on this as would like a 1 can to rule them all option that did not feel like FC was raping my wallet but also think the need for these speaks to much bigger issues with the game.

    Token Board - For subscribers. Wow just figuring out that your paying customers need to feel that paying one of the highest sub fees out there is getting them something. Of course we are back to my rant on the unrelenting quest for more and more powerfully items in the game. Since everyone has tokens to spare these days this subscriber board really has no meaning other than you are paying therefore you get more power. I also get the impression this will endgame only item so all those that pay but do not have 220's will get shafted. I sure hope the subscriber version is applicable to all boards and not just another endgame item.

    Pay To Win - With VP buy-able and now these combat buffs we are getting very close to buying a toon that is decent and payable. Just waiting on the buy-able levels (unless that is what Heckler Juice is) and then we will have crossed the Pay To Skip line and be standing right on top of Pay To Win. The item store already made tokens meaningless and yet there is another token board in the list that is for the paying players. I need to see what paying gets you but given the importance of token boards I cannot see this as anything but pay to win.

    General Thoughts - So really my take is FC upper management (outside the AO team) is listening to the bean counters and consultants that are saying players will pay to win. And the suggestions you acted on are the proof of that. Asian games proved that 5 years ago. And those games are full of epeen and rude people now because they feel they are gods and need to be treated as such because they did pay to win. Not an AO I look forward too. The sad part of that model is those Asian games that pay to win added items that are exclusive to the in game stores and are must need to be competitive. Ensuring they get bought and generate income. Not to mention that some models have those items being temporary forcing repurchases. So I am waiting now for FC to just cross that line and it is coming as long as business decisions and bean counters are in control, if in game store sales cover 100% of the games cost (at some point) then all the subs are profit. People get bonuses to help them with guilt over screwing the players. Yes it is doom and gloom because there is no game that added an in game store that has not proceeded down that road or are going down it right now. Overall I still think that the in game store is pandora's box and it has been opened.
    Lheann
    President of When I Grow Up

    Lhisa - MA - RK1
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  3. #43
    Wear a helmet, Wind is here.

    Breed Change – If I remember correctly, the community was promised a ONE TIME free breed change (per character) after the completion of the profession rebalance (now known as System Changes) about a year ago. If FC keeps the promise and this service as provided as an alternative and not as the only choice, then yes, I'm all for it.

    Garden Keys – I don't like it, but I think we can live with it as long as each of these garden keys have level locks for use (including the use of a garden key with a Recall Beacon).

    Heckler Juice – Another xp item, there are already in the item shop. These should be NODROP and in limited quantity per character.

    Combat Buffcans – Sorry but hell no. One of the reasons why players go to a raid where they are not looking for any items from such a raid is for the buff they gain from it. If these buffs could be purchased, then those who were raiding just to get that buff are less likely to join a raid for it. This discourages team play, so no.

    Gender Change – No problem, go for it.

    Grid Nanoprogram – Again, hell no. This is practically removing the unique aspect of being a prof that gets people into the grid (Doctor, Agent and Fixer specially). Don't do this please.

    Recall Beacon – I'm not too happy about this, you're selling items which were Veteran ONLY because it was a reward for customer loyalty. Now anyone with a credit card can get them? Not only that, but you add a new one which Vets (as far as I know) won't be able to get from the Vet Shop? If you're in need of money to the point of selling Veteran items... you better sell each for at least $358.8, because that is the exact amount it takes for a player paying $14.95 a month for 24 months to get 10 Veteran Points to buy ONE Recall Beacon. I may live with the RK Recall Beacon being sold, but the SL one and a new one? No.

    Side Change – I'm all for this, and would be happy to see available, I've met players who got to high level and were not satisfied with their choice of faction, but felt "stuck" after 201.

    Twinking Buffcans – I was never a fan of these, it discourages interaction between players. Why ask in a public channel for SFA, FG, ES, NS or any other buff and wait for an answer when you can buy it and get it in a minute? Maybe this works for the hardcore twinker.

    Token Board – I do like this one, but I'll need to see how much of a benefit it provides subscribers before giving feedback on it.

    Thank you Ilaliya for considering our feedback.
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  4. #44
    Just wanted to say that those thinking everyone will make all their characters atrox, at least at 220, are not entirely aware of how little use that would offer. In PVP, yes mongo rage is a tempting reason to go atrox, but generally that is limited to enforcers, keepers, and shades who more or less rely on it until having a complete setup. For other professions the other breeds tend to do better for various reasons, either nanoskills, ability to equip symbiants, or items like the nanomage booster. If everyone went atrox for PVP, then many would quickly wish they had not done so.

    In PVE, atrox is generally a subpar choice once you hit 220 for many professions. An atrox will not perform better than other breeds usually, and is often limited by nanoskills and equipment yet again. Where atrox excels is some particular setups, or with professions whose gear and symbiants are typically suited for stamina and strength.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Just wanted to say that those thinking everyone will make all their characters atrox, at least at 220, are not entirely aware of how little use that would offer. In PVP, yes mongo rage is a tempting reason to go atrox, but generally that is limited to enforcers, keepers, and shades who more or less rely on it until having a complete setup. For other professions the other breeds tend to do better for various reasons, either nanoskills, ability to equip symbiants, or items like the nanomage booster. If everyone went atrox for PVP, then many would quickly wish they had not done so.

    In PVE, atrox is generally a subpar choice once you hit 220 for many professions. An atrox will not perform better than other breeds usually, and is often limited by nanoskills and equipment yet again. Where atrox excels is some particular setups, or with professions whose gear and symbiants are typically suited for stamina and strength.
    wat

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    wat
    In much simpler terms, I found out the LONG way that being atrox was not worth it on several professions. On paper and in practice, it is two entirely different experiences.

    Beyond that, several breeds offer equal or superior advantages for many professions over atrox. Just list all the professions except PVP shade, keeper, and enforcer and you have your list. I do not need to be incredibly specific do I?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    In much simpler terms, I found out the LONG way that being atrox was not worth it on several professions. On paper and in practice, it is two entirely different experiences.

    Beyond that, several breeds offer equal or superior advantages for many professions over atrox. Just list all the professions except PVP shade, keeper, and enforcer and you have your list. I do not need to be incredibly specific do I?
    just about every profession benefits either from the extra hp or the 1500 ar and chance stun for their alpha. the only profs i can think of that don't benefit from either in pvp are crats, engies, nt's mps, traders and probably ma's. and everyone likes extra hp in pvm (with the exception of nt/trader since their nbs is breed dependant) with the gaunt buff most atroxes can get their alpha brains in (support and control still being impossible for some profs as far as i'm aware) so the gear limitation isn't really there either. the lack of nanoskills can be made up for with swaps. overall there absolutely 0 reason NOT to go trox for most profs.

    yes, nm coon and soli genome perks can be nice. yes you need more buffgear to put alphas on a trox. but from a min/max perspective the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo. i'll definitely change my fixer to atrox the minute that breedchange hits live because, quite frankly, the number of times i've thought "damn, if only i had 1500 more AR..." far outwieghs the number of times i thought "man good thing my alphas rightclicked in"
    Last edited by Lazy; Sep 18th, 2012 at 08:34:04.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Lheann View Post
    Twinking Buff Cans - Will say this once more in this thread. Just make it easy, create one "Twinkers Buff Can" that has SFA, BEH, ES, FG, PS, etc.. in it that uses 1 NCU and last 5 minutes and all that. Really these feel like money grabs and still make it worth my time to level buffing alts for some of these. But one can that gave me every possible buff and took 1 NCU would be something people would buy and use.
    That would affect low-level twinking a LOT. As it is the NCU limitation is one of the aspects twinkers have to figure out, especially on very low level toons (or when just starting the process). Like I said before, I don't mind the buffs themselves, but the reqs (NCU) need to be the same to not give very clear advantage.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    just about every profession benefits either from the extra hp or the 1500 ar and chance stun for their alpha. the only profs i can think of that don't benefit from either in pvp are crats, engies, nt's mps, traders and probably ma's. and everyone likes extra hp in pvm (with the exception of nt/trader since their nbs is breed dependant) with the gaunt buff most atroxes can get their alpha brains in (support and control still being impossible for some profs as far as i'm aware) so the gear limitation isn't really there either. the lack of nanoskills can be made up for with swaps. overall there absolutely 0 reason NOT to go trox for most profs.

    yes, nm coon and soli genome perks can be nice. yes you need more buffgear to put alphas on a trox. but from a min/max perspective the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo. i'll definitely change my fixer to atrox the minute that breedchange hits live because, quite frankly, the number of times i've thought "damn, if only i had 1500 more AR..." far outwieghs the number of times i thought "man good thing my alphas rightclicked in"
    Atrox is viable of course, I merely meant to stress that not everyone would necessarily gain enough to feel the change was worth it. That said, I still would like to try an atrox pistol MP using MR lol.

    Personally, I would not have the time to acquire even a fraction of the necessary buff gear anymore either, and there are probably others like this as well. Atrox MA has been a bit of a headache...which is funny because it is the beta brain I am like 5 points short of equipping.

  10. #50
    fair enough. not looking forward to farming int/psy/sen buffgear myself :/

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    the only profs i can think of that don't benefit from either in pvp are crats, engies, nt's mps, traders and probably ma's
    That's half the professions in the game right there you know And for pvm you don't really need to completely max out your char anyway, so I'd say having an easier time with symbs and swapping gear around for different situations can sometimes be worth the hp loss.





    P.S There's to little to do in game for vets as it is. No to killing instances with Combat buffcans...


  12. #52

    Funcom employee

    I just want to clarify a few things about the garden keys:

    1: The garden key boxes have level requirements already
    Nascence: no level requirement
    Elysium: level 61+
    Scheol: level 101+
    Adonis: level 131+
    Penumbra: level 161+
    Inferno: level 201+

    2: Just for the record: Paying to skip this content means you won't be able to do the quests later and you don't get the xp/sk you would get if you did the quests.
    The "xp nerf" to the garden key quest lines were a bug fix.
    The daily mission reward was added to these quests and this was not intended.
    We want to encourage people to do the quest while it is still a challenge to do them. I could agree that a % xp hit wasn't the best solution either since it discourages lower level players to try. I could look in to getting that fixed at some point.
    Doing a quest intended for a level 60 when you are level 200 is not a challenge and should not reward more xp just because you are level 200.

    I also have an update about the side change items:
    I will look in to making a neutral application form.


    Finally: Anything we add to the shop will not prevent us from improving our game.
    We love AO and want the game to be fun to play.
    Honestly, during the time I have worked on AO I have fixed so many bugs it is crazy.
    I will not stop doing so just because we sell things in the shop.

  13. #53
    @Genele On top of FC's financial problems, you are worrying the players that are left that literally Pay your wages. You can't bug fix a dead game, pay to win will kill any game. You lost a dev and a GD recently, beans counters like reducing wage numbers who is next.

    I personally don't pvp or did much when I did, but when you start selling buffs/items that give a advantage for pvpers with a healthly bank balance. You will loose paying players as those that can will use and abuse those buffs/items.

    e.g. Grid cans, nice you give griefers a bigger advantage, now anyone in a team can evac a team out of a hot spot if they have a Credit Card.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Borken View Post
    e.g. Grid cans, nice you give griefers a bigger advantage, now anyone in a team can evac a team out of a hot spot if they have a Credit Card.
    No real details about the grid can, I'm fully against it still, but it could be one which is NODROP, with a timer and only able to be used by the owner and not affect a team.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    No real details about the grid can, I'm fully against it still, but it could be one which is NODROP, with a timer and only able to be used by the owner and not affect a team.
    And only when you (and maybe whole team) is out of fight (in same way as those Health and Nano Rechargers are working). Using it could take 20 seconds time (in same way as RK/SL beacon does) and lock time could be maybe 20-30min+. But I guess its better that those grid cans won't come to item shop.. but if they come then they should have quite heavy restrictions.
    Mizufluffy (220/30/??) MA # Hopeasaukko (216/27/??) NT # Mustarotta (100/10/28) Crat
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  16. #56
    Never tried it on a froob account, so not sure if you can purchase items from the item shops with one, but just in case...

    You might want to make sure those garden keys would not allow froobs to warp into the shadowlands via the garden access points on RK I would love for froobs to have partial SL access but not through an unintended method.

    Otherwise just make them an expansion only purchase? Like I said, not sure if or how froobs purchase items from the item shop.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeasaukko View Post
    And only when you (and maybe whole team) is out of fight (in same way as those Health and Nano Rechargers are working). Using it could take 20 seconds time (in same way as RK/SL beacon does) and lock time could be maybe 20-30min+. But I guess its better that those grid cans won't come to item shop.. but if they come then they should have quite heavy restrictions.
    There's already a "instant grid" item in the 'nano cans' category, and it's consumed on use. It has been around for a good while. The new thing mentioned in OP is a one-time purchase of a nano program, which I assume can be used as many times as you'd like.
    Last edited by Demoder; Sep 21st, 2012 at 03:25:19.
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  18. #58
    So that's a go on garden keys!
    Gaveup 220/30/80 Smg

  19. #59
    I like the idea of the Garden keys, Token boards, Breed Change and side Change.

    Raid buffs - pointless, just do the raid.

    Fgrid - providing its not instant with a nice cooldown, im happy.

    Does anyone know, when these changes will hit Live?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    ...The "xp nerf" to the garden key quest lines were a bug fix.
    The daily mission reward was added to these quests and this was not intended.
    We want to encourage people to do the quest while it is still a challenge to do them. I could agree that a % xp hit wasn't the best solution either since it discourages lower level players to try. I could look in to getting that fixed at some point.
    Doing a quest intended for a level 60 when you are level 200 is not a challenge and should not reward more xp just because you are level 200....
    All of that makes sense in a purely logical fashion.

    It also removes one of the alternatives to the tedious inferno mission grind.

    Changing something because it is "right" doesn't necessarily make it less irritating.

    Changing it and providing an alternative would make it fine.
    stuff

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