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Thread: Buyable Garden Keys

  1. #21
    Geesh people, get over it already. Who cares how someone gets a key or some of the other items now in the funcom market. I know I don't. While I will agree that ado is one of the easier keys, I doubt anyone can say that doing a Scheol key or sanctuary solo at level is either quick or easy. My opinion is that if it makes another segment of the population happy, makes a little money for funcome, and doesn't really harm the game, why should I care. In fact, I personally think they are giving up some pretty easy levels from not doing the quest, but again it is their choice. So overall, I think it is fine.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Deemure View Post
    Geesh people, get over it already. Who cares how someone gets a key or some of the other items now in the funcom market. I know I don't. While I will agree that ado is one of the easier keys, I doubt anyone can say that doing a Scheol key or sanctuary solo at level is either quick or easy. My opinion is that if it makes another segment of the population happy, makes a little money for funcome, and doesn't really harm the game, why should I care.
    /thread

    I don't care how people get the keys either as it never affected me in any way. So what if people got the money and wish to buy it? I actively play 4 toons atm, all of wich have at least 4 keys. After doing the same quests over and over you kinda get a bitter taste about them.
    GJ FC on this great addition. However, do NOT add items that enhance performance to the item store. This game should be like AO, not like wow on private servers where if you donate 15$ you kill everybody and everything....
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  3. #23
    I care. Very much.

    First it kills my achievements. I play for hours/days/weeks to achieve something that someone can buy with a few bucks and nobody will know the difference.

    Second it reduces the small chance I have of getting someone to team me even further.

    Third what do you call a game that people pay to not play?

  4. #24
    Achievements? Dude....all garden key quests are soloable and can be done in few minutes, maybe 1h, except the inf key wich indeed is harder. Doing adonis key on 15 toons is not an achievement.
    If someone, like you, did this and simply refuses to do it again, they now have to opportunity to pop the dollar and get it.
    Nobody ever bragged about garden keys as an achievement....and the only garden key quest that actually needs teaming is Inferno G.
    I pay for the game to enjoy it. I don't enjoy doing repetitive stuff over and over on each toon(hi bazzit quest and garden keys!). While I won't ever buy a garden key, I'm delighted that people who got fed up of those quests have now received an option.
    Thx
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Malraux View Post
    Achievements? Dude....all garden key quests are soloable and can be done in few minutes, maybe 1h, except the inf key wich indeed is harder. Doing adonis key on 15 toons is not an achievement.
    If someone, like you, did this and simply refuses to do it again, they now have to opportunity to pop the dollar and get it.
    Nobody ever bragged about garden keys as an achievement....and the only garden key quest that actually needs teaming is Inferno G.
    I pay for the game to enjoy it. I don't enjoy doing repetitive stuff over and over on each toon(hi bazzit quest and garden keys!). While I won't ever buy a garden key, I'm delighted that people who got fed up of those quests have now received an option.
    Thx
    If it is easy, do it. Do it and reap the benefit. To boring? Then dont do it and dont have the benefit.

    I dont care what you consider or not an achievement. I care that people will have an item that they didnt make any effort to get. And that those who want/need to team will have even less people to play with.

    And what will we get next? 200/25/56 toons with ql 240 symbs, Ofab armor and kyr weapons sold for 100 bucks?

    AOs biggest drop in players was after the introduction of the item shop. FC now wants people to pay to play AND to pay to NOT PLAY. You may not care and even like a system where people pay to bypass content. Are you willing to dual log when you want a bit of PvP action?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Malraux View Post
    /threadAfter doing the same quests over and over you kinda get a bitter taste about them.
    We agree here. I never said they shouldn't have the item in the shop, my biggest issue is that they can be purchased by someone that hasn't even done the content a single time. I've been playing WoW and I love how Blizzard has it set up so that some things are account wide and you don't have to farm it over and over on multiple toons.. that's great stuff (mainly referring to mounts, pets and bind on account).

    I don't see how other players don't get the slippery slope Funcom is on at the moment by selling quest reward items in the itemshop and allowing people to totally bypass game content. I'm constantly hearing people complaining about unskilled players in game and yet those same people somehow support these types of changes. I guess I just don't get it.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    I looked in the item store at the descriptions there ... no mention of any level locks being any different from the regular quest key.

    It should say on the item in the item store before you buy it what any requirements are to spawn and/or use the item. It should not rely on whether or not all of us have read every forum post about these or other items sold in the item store.

    The information below from the 'small item shop update' thread should have been included in the descriptions of these garden key "boxes" before anyone purchases them. The description in the item store should also explain if the level locks below are for "spawning" and/or "using" the keys. For example you can wear a Quest-Inferno key at level 195, have it equiped for the treatment buff and to use your SL beacon to go the inferno garden ... but you have its level lock at 201 below.

    It would also be nice to know in advance which garden a neutral toon will get if they purchase one of these garden key "boxes" ... do we get to choose?
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    I just want to clarify a few things about the garden keys:

    1: The garden key boxes have level requirements already
    Nascence: no level requirement
    Elysium: level 61+
    Scheol: level 101+
    Adonis: level 131+
    Penumbra: level 161+
    Inferno: level 201+

    2: Just for the record: Paying to skip this content means you won't be able to do the quests later and you don't get the xp/sk you would get if you did the quests.

    I also have an update about the side change items:
    I will look in to making a neutral application form.
    I asked the question above and made comments about the lack of descriptions of how the purchased garden keys work ...

    I have not seen anywhere an explanation of how these Item Store garden key boxes work.

    Are the level locks mentioned in the Item shop forums the level required to "open or spawn" the garden key box? Or, the level to use the included key? Or, the level to wear the included key?

    Somewhere I saw that the box will spawn the key to match your faction ... What happens for neutral toons? Do we get to pick which garden key we want? Does it look to which faction we are 'most' friendly with? What if we are friendly with both factions?

    Somewhere I saw that purchasing the garden key box meant you could not later do the key quest. What happens if you change sides later, can you do the quest for your new 'side'? What about neutral toons ... can they do the garden key quest for the other key?

    These Item Shop Garden Keys could be a very useful item for new players that have never been to the respective playfield ... i.e. buy the key for their first toon only so they can learn the area, etc. The Inferno key could also be very useful for established players that don't already have a high level toon that can farm all the pocketbosses and/or play at a time when there are enough high level friends online and/or in their guild to sucessfully spawn all the pb's needed for the key assuming they somehow had access to a set.

    It would be very helpful to have a full explanation of how these key boxes work.

    I know I would not buy any until there is a complete explanation.

    Kinnik

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpynoob View Post
    ...
    AOs biggest drop in players was after the introduction of the item shop. FC now wants people to pay to play AND to pay to NOT PLAY. You may not care and even like a system where people pay to bypass content. Are you willing to dual log when you want a bit of PvP action?

    A) Not true: AO's biggest drop in players - total number - was when the MBS nerfs were implemented a few months prior to SL's release. Whole professions were nerfed, skills that it had taken years to acquire became useless. In terms of total numbers I'd guess this was the biggest drop. SL's release brought a whole bunch of new people in though.

    B) The massive departure at the same time the game shop was released probably had as much to do with the S10 $5M item nerf as anything. There was a whole industry based on raiding S10, making AI armor and selling it. There were teams that wore full CC, names you'd never heard of before nor would you see in any other context, teams who never invited anyone else and didn't mind training everyone - that just did S10. They'd pop up and disappear based on the boss' spawn cycles. Plenty of the rest of us just loved logging in and fighting mobs - and trains - to get ubers and weapons and all. S10 has been dead since the nerf.

    I don't doubt that the first clear signs of monetizing AO threw some players off but I do doubt that that was the principal reason for their departure.

    I agree with Dramage that the keys should have been made available free to paying players. But what's lurking around the corner, I suspect, is the biggest nerf bat of all: game closure. Some skulking little weasel at Funcom HQ is trying to figure out how he can get out the back door with as much money as possible and if AO and AOC and TSW don't show enough money coming in then that skulking weasel will break up the game, maybe the whole company, and sell it for parts. So if parts of this game are 'monetized' enough to keep that weasel at bay then I'm not complaining... long as it doesn't reach the soul of the game.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpynoob View Post
    ...stuff...
    Just curious - and truly not picking on you directly, but since you brought it up last and it has always made me wonder when I hear it.

    How does anything that someone else does affect you?

    I can name so many things that have happened to make some of the "hard" things to finish so easy now its laughable. What about the folks who buy lootrights? they dont do the content and get the reward (and for Inferno Key is real common one) - so how is that any different? What about people that farm PVP levels? I mean, there are so many things that at one time meant something but the game has changed and those "accomplishments" are really nothing now. This is just another step in that direction.
    Last edited by Anarrina; Oct 5th, 2012 at 13:54:59.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpynoob View Post
    ...stuff...
    Just curious - and truly not picking on you directly, but since you brought it up last and it has always made me wonder when I hear it.

    How does anything that someone else does affect you?

    I can name so many things that have happened to make some of the "hard" things to finish so easy now its laughable. What about the folks who buy lootrights? they dont do the content and get the reward (and for Inferno Key is real common one) - so how is that any different? What about people that farm PVP levels? I mean, there are so many things that at one time meant something but the game has changed and those "accomplishments" are really nothing now. This is just another step in that direction.
    You go climb a big mountain and you come down with fotos to show your friends. Everybody knows there is a helicopter that flies to the top of the mountain every day. Unless you can document in detail all the steps of your epic trip there will always be a doubt if you did it by yourself or cheated.

    It doesnt bother me that other players can bypass content, it bothers me that it is possible to do it. And all the examples you give of bypassing content bother me too. The way the game functions now there is no epeen past the first 220 toon. All you need to make in AO now is a good 220 crat, everything else you can buy.
    Last edited by Anarrina; Oct 5th, 2012 at 13:55:28.

  11. #31
    With the way the game has gone the past few years at least. I think fc should just go ahead and put all the quest and raid nanos and equipment into the online shop. I mean really. You virtually never see a "in range" person or even a team doing any of the quests. They always have one or more 220s to outside tank. kill the harder mobs, buff runspeed, etc. I honestly don't see one bit of difference in whether someone pulls a 220 out of storage to do the quest, raid, faction farming, or xp (so that their alt can get the goodies) or whether it is bought via the ingame store. If people are honest about it, I bet very few of the people complaining actually do the quests, keys, etc. with the toon that received the reward either. The lowbie is almost always just "along for the ride. Same with inferno missions and the like. This whole game has deteriorated to just get one toon to 220 and the rest is easy. That is the main reason so many "bigger toons" have never developed the skill sets. Whether fc sell keys and other items in the online store will do nothing to effect this trend in any significant way.

    That being said, there is the issue of some players not ever doing any of the quest, and others simply not wanting to do it again. Both sentiments are valid. But again, how is that different from the 220 trailing a 130 to farm hecklers or some 220s holding faction parties with hoards of lowbies munching up the faction on the sidelines, or kite teams, or any of the other way people use shortcuts to level as quickly as possible. Selling loot rites is another reality of the game, so is doing db then logging in alts to get the equipment, biodomes so your alt can get the pet nano, pande, beast, the list is endless where the toon does not actualy do the work themselves. The harsh reality is that there really are not a host of new players in the game, and I bet most of those doing a particular quest have done these quests on another toon, and for some of the quests once is quite enough. How many actually enjoy the Ado brain quest, the Scheol quest, or the Alappa quest (I admit I actually like the Pen one and yes I use an outside helper for two-time Maloney as he is virtually impossible for an at level team to kill quickly enough). So to deal with the boredom and the oversided mobs (two time, muddy dryaid, synaptoids, and several others, people use alts to do the work instead of their new toons. Because frankly most of the quests border on brain-numbing boredom running back an forth across the playfield interspaced with mobs that "at level" cannot possible kill.

    All of this has contributed to the game, in my opinion at least, degenerating for most people into get one toon to 220 than drag all the others up through outside tanking, quest assistance, etc. etc. etc.

    I don't personally play that way, preferring to get each toon up the hard way (normally though I do give them 1M credits to start with and give them some help with the stupid hard mobs for the level). I must admit that rather than farm a set of inferno key pbs for the 15th time, or making inferno boots/hhab for the 30th time, maybe spending $30 (or using some of the 20+K points accumulated through remewals) might be a good alternative.

    The only other option I can see is a game change so that if there was any teaming of outsized toons during the quest/raid it automatically cancelled. Similarly you have to be in the playfield in the raid teams to loot . Other changes would be needed so that each toon would be played. But that is not the game we have or are likely to have. While this would enable people sufficient practice to master ther profession tool set, in the end all these would do would be to subject more people to the tedium of farming all the goodies themselves, for each toon. With the current population, this would put a lot of the items beyond reach. So, I honestly think more would quit if that were to happen. I know that just because I choose to play the game a certain way does not mean everyone would like to. In this game one size does not fill all players or toons. That is why I would actually prefer they put everything in the store. Not that I would use it, but there are those who do not have the interest in camping for 27 days to get the correct +10 ring or go on 150 beast raids in hope of winning a boc, only to see it won by someone selling loot rites or getting an alt to loot it. This has almost caused me to quit more than once. There is another thing to consider. The cost of buying everything for each toon would be formidable. I think for most people the $20 here and $30 there, or $50 elsewhere would soon disuade them from buying everything. But for those items theya re too frustrated to continue to camp, yeah this maybe the option that would keep them playing.
    Last edited by Deemure; Oct 5th, 2012 at 03:57:02. Reason: bad typos, no cookie

  12. #32
    I have never done inferno key quest. I have done all the others. Whilst the idea of spending €30 for the Inf key is attractive, I don't feel I should be able to. If you must sell keys I feel you should have done that key quest at least once on a toon on that account.
    Paying to avoid content is a dangerous thing to introduce. I'm sure FC are reading these threads with one eye on introducing buying level boosts in the future. The level grind to 220/30/70 is so tedious that again I see this as being a great seller.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhinn View Post
    I'm sure FC are reading these threads with one eye on introducing buying level boosts in the future.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    I just want to clarify a few things about the garden keys:

    1: The garden key boxes have level requirements already
    Nascence: no level requirement
    Elysium: level 61+
    Scheol: level 101+
    Adonis: level 131+
    Penumbra: level 161+
    Inferno: level 201+

    2: Just for the record: Paying to skip this content means you won't be able to do the quests later and you don't get the xp/sk you would get if you did the quests.
    These level locks for using the new item shop Garden Key boxes appear to be aligned with the Doja Chip levels for the playfield. Is there a specific reason for these level choices? For example, the Inferno garden key can be equiped at level 195, but we can't spawn the box until 201.

    Perhaps choose the lower of the Doja Chip level for the playfield or the level to actually equip the respective garden key?

    I know I would be tempted to purchase the Inferno key package except that my toon is only 190 ... if the requirement was 195 I would level my toon up and then do my research. With a 201 requirement it is much harder to justify as I prefer to get my 9's done before leveling past 200.

    Kinnik

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    These level locks for using the new item shop Garden Key boxes appear to be aligned with the Doja Chip levels for the playfield. Is there a specific reason for these level choices? For example, the Inferno garden key can be equiped at level 195, but we can't spawn the box until 201.
    Kinnik
    I'd say that those are the levels FC says a toon should be in that zone. If you Have a 195 that weaseled his way into an Inf key then by all means you now have a 195 with a "twinked" Inf garden key. However FC is not going to allow any toon to purchase through item shop unless you are 201.

    (At which point you really don't need it if you also have LoX)
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I'd say that those are the levels FC says a toon should be in that zone. If you Have a 195 that weaseled his way into an Inf key then by all means you now have a 195 with a "twinked" Inf garden key. However FC is not going to allow any toon to purchase through item shop unless you are 201.

    (At which point you really don't need it if you also have LoX)
    Equiping an Inferno key at 195 isn't twinking ... that is the standard level the key itself defines as the level required to wear it. Many people have toons that go to Inferno at level 161 to do Inferno missions and/or have done the Inferno key quest with the help of higher level toons.

    The garden key that spawns from the Item store Inferno garden key box can be equiped at level 195 ... you just can not currently "open" the box until you are 201.

    FC could have just as easily decided to make the level required to "open" the box 195.

    Kinnik

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Equiping an Inferno key at 195 isn't twinking ... that is the standard level the key itself defines as the level required to wear it. Many people have toons that go to Inferno at level 161 to do Inferno missions and/or have done the Inferno key quest with the help of higher level toons.

    The garden key that spawns from the Item store Inferno garden key box can be equiped at level 195 ... you just can not currently "open" the box until you are 201.

    FC could have just as easily decided to make the level required to "open" the box 195.

    Kinnik
    Maybe you misunderstood what i was saying... (If you Have a 195 that weaseled his way into an Inf key then by all means you now have a 195 with a "twinked" Inf garden key.) The twink part is gettin into the Inf team in the first place not equiping it, or in 99% of cases just bought into the key team.

    The point was FC is still "rewarding" players that go the extra mile and do the key quests themselves as opposed to players that wait for to get the keys with $$$. You can do the quests and use the keys at a lower lvl than you can buy them and use them.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Maybe you misunderstood what i was saying... (If you Have a 195 that weaseled his way into an Inf key then by all means you now have a 195 with a "twinked" Inf garden key.) The twink part is gettin into the Inf team in the first place not equiping it, or in 99% of cases just bought into the key team.

    The point was FC is still "rewarding" players that go the extra mile and do the key quests themselves as opposed to players that wait for to get the keys with $$$. You can do the quests and use the keys at a lower lvl than you can buy them and use them.
    Pay 50m for a key quest spot. The person hosting isn't going to care what level you are. Tada! Inf key at 195. I think that's around when I did it on my first TL7 character, maybe I was a tad higher but not enough to make much difference.
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