PvM Imbalances

[Wakizaka]

Beast wipes essence, so that will work until the first wipe.

[Marinegent]

Beast wipes essence, so that will work until the first wipe.

A good atrox agent can still attain a minimum of 25k hp without the 9k essence with a few swaps and the doc buffs and the enhance health perkline (which most agents have of they don't need nanoskills from nano doctorate) alone.

With auras debuffs ward and reflects that's still plenty.

[Psikie]

A good atrox agent can still attain a minimum of 25k hp without the 9k essence with a few swaps and the doc buffs and the enhance health perkline (which most agents have of they don't need nanoskills from nano doctorate) alone.

With auras debuffs ward and reflects that's still plenty.

The only issue with non standard teams would be if you got the unlucky double wave- adds kill.

[Xootch]

still gonna wipe with some adds imo.

[RedWatr]

just a note:

I've healed at beast with advs more than a few times (after doc deaths mostly), and all I can say is this, you really need 2 adv's unless it's a carefully planned out raid, and the adv is willing to give up a lot for concentrating on heals, he'd have to be ranged (to help at all with DD), and stay just out of Beasts aoe in tree morph spamming SSL/BoL. this presents a problem when it comes to use of perk healing such as bior. tree morph also gives the rest of the team a nice heal modifier boost, which iirc, works on perk heals as well. a drawback in tree morph, you limit adv's ability to help mezz adds.

[Byste]

I never noticed this thread til now but since it's already necro'd I'll just point out that in all the discussion of McKnuckleSandwich's 5-man team, it wasn't noted that MP has another debuff line that has -damage and -init. It's not a whole lot, but it makes his team setup more viable, especially with the lack of other sources of init debuffing (yes, there's the engi pet proc, but procs aren't consistent).

I think someone at the beginning of the thread chimed in about fixers being a good evade tank -- the first problem is holding agg. It's possible to be really good DPS as fixer but the swaps involved cut into your defenses significantly -- and this is basically going to be your only source of taunt aside from heals, since you should have no time or nano to be casting the monstrously nano-consuming SL snare. The other problem with fixer is not bringing enough utility to the team -- sure, the healing is nice, but NCU is OSBable, runspeed is useless, and you can't buff evades in SL (even if you could, trader is better). A fixer might make a good 6th for the extra healing and dps, and technically you can help with the crowd control by snaring adds, but I'd still probably take NT over fixer for 6th.

[Otansaanpas]

I think someone at the beginning of the thread chimed in about fixers being a good evade tank -- the first problem is holding agg.

its popular conception here in AO that tanking is only about surviving incoming damage. and like you said, if team has 2 fixers and one is designated to be the tank, after swaps will not do enough threat to even keep the other fixer out of harms way.

im semi-hyped over keepers nano-docs because there is a taunt introduced. making the profession much more desired for pvm.
the taunt is pretty worthless in its current form, but atleast there is a hint devs are thinking with the idea of adding more proper tanks.

[Porc]

AR debuffs
-1210 AAO (DVP)-150AAO (Divest)-150AAO(Plunder -102AAO-136AAO (procs)
Total: -1748 beast AR

Damage reductions on target:
-500 damage (divest damage)
-589 damage (desecration of resolve)
-294 (desecration of will)
Total: -1383 damage

Healing capabilities:

Primary:
Beauty of life (600HP/s)
Improved health haggler: 1827hp/4.56s rech = 400hp/s
MP pet: With SS10 trained Mortificant heals for 1216 - 1694 with 3s/4.5s attack/recharge =(275hp/s)
Total primary: 600+400+275=1275 hp/s vs BI 1444 hp/s (no adjustment for heal eff)

Secondary and perk healing:

Imp ambient invig: 1053/20s =53hp/s
Spirit of blessing: 1000hp/40s = 25hp/s
lay on hands 1110hp/40s=28hp/s
Curing touch 6900hp/120s=58hp/s
3x bio rejuv = 3*1450/30s = 145hp/s
3x bio regrowth = 3*500*30/300s =150hp/s
Awakening = 4250avg/105s = 40hp/s
Assume 3x solitus in group and all 3 are beta genome 10: Survival: 3*580*6/120=87hp/s
Purple heart: 7445hp/330s =22.5 hp/s

Total secondary healing: 53+25+28+58+145+150+40+87+22= 608hp/s

Total primary + secondary healing: 1275hp/s+608hp/s = 1883hp/s

So team healing capability *should* be more than enough given this motley crew, but realistically the problem would be everyone coordinating. I couldn't find any real init debuffs, so this could make the whole thing very difficult.


The -1700 AAO on beast, and 380ish extra evades is pretty significant. I've always found that when I can keep beast DVP'd on my engi that the tank takes significantly less damage. Playing with an enf who knows how to use absorbs and cycle mongo etc, I'd say there's no doubt in my mind that you can easily do beast without a doctor. So it's just a matter of trying to make the different methods of damage mitigation work in harmony and having enough heals on demand to pick up the slack if there's gaps.

The problem though would be that Purple Heart has a huge taunt and when the perk is active, you have no defense as a trader. So, if you get the aggro, the team loses the trader. Also, the Beast is not drainable and, for Nano/health healing, you forgot to include Your Enemy's Enemy is Your Friend.

[Otansaanpas]

BI 1444 hp/s (no adjustment for heal eff)

BI equals 2166 hp/s in SI-system we use in europe.

also its silly not to include heal efficiency, because its a part of typical docs build.
making regular doc with 40% eff pushing 3033 hp/s with BI alone.
with 3k additional heal every 12 seconds, its roughly 3280 hp/s

{Editted by Haquihana - this counts as flaming}

[wonderland]

BI equals 2166 hp/s in SI-system we use in europe.

also its silly not to include heal efficiency, because its a part of typical docs build.
making regular doc with 40% eff pushing 3033 hp/s with BI alone.
with 3k additional heal every 12 seconds, its roughly 3280 hp/s

Most people forget to include the improved complete healing every 20s (SHOULD, TYPICALLY, be used when the enforcer is getting low to keep nano and get the most healing). How much extra healing this gets could differ depending on the health of the enforcer, and how low the doctor lets them get. Only thing about this at beast, is, if One Foot in the Grave gets caught on the enforcer (Which doesn't honestly happen often, but sometimes) by a Corrupted Xan-Cur, then a doctor is not able to use it. It also has a 3.5s recharge.

I could not see anything short of an enforcer or soldier (With AMS up) surviving 4 to 8 extra monsters on top of beast, and that's if beast is init debuffed by a bureaucrat and at least muscular malaise. Too much damage.