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Thread: City Plot Prices and Upkeep

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    you do have access to wahat you pay for. everyone has access to cities. moreso now than ever before since now there's no artificial scarcity (unlimited instanced cities meaning you don't have to wait for an org to sell one if all the plots are full)

    as for the price of renting a city, well see my previous comment about combined sets. having access to something doesn't mean you get it handed to you when you step off noob island.
    Some of us want to stay in a small org and enjoy the game. Not gridng for the city upkeep every time we are online. We don't want it handed to us for free, but the same time we want time to enjoy the game. It's not every month I want to do city raids to sell armour or something valuble, but with dubble or tripple prices I have to
    RK1 - Atlantean
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    Rudolph "Nissemann" Juhl - Omni- Level 220/30/70 Engineer
    Omni-Mining
    Mary "Gimpa" Wormwood 2xx/30/xx Advy R.U.R
    Josephine "Gimpyposer" Dredd 21x/30/70 mp Omni-Pol
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    Proud member of Leet Protection Agency

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    . It's not every month I want to do city raids to sell armour or something valuble, but with dubble or tripple prices I have to
    uh, no. a small (6man) org can raise the funds to cover city rent on a large fully furnished 150m/mnth city by investing exactly 15 minutes per month each. if you can't find 15 minutes in a month to scratch together 25m then i dont know what to tell you.

  3. #203
    Also I would like to clarify. There is a lot of talk about entitlement. Well yes, everyone who plays the game and pays for it should be entitled to the opportunity to obtain the same benefits if they chose to make the effort to do so. Doen't mean anything is handed to them. But with the recent changes, the opportunity to play casually, or is small groups deprives player of the opportunity because of the artificially high rents. Which by the way are also far higher than what funcom said they would be. Anyway, I suspect many of you would feel disenfranchised if they change the rules to ban selling loot right, to prohibit lower than 205 from Inferno, making Pandemonium Omni or Clan only, or any of thousands of other ways funcom could limit or restrict opportunity in the name of forcing a particular style of play. By the way 80-100M is still 2-4X what most cities cost today, so it is not exactly a giveaway. Just makes it a more reasonable balance between the cost and the ability to bring credits into the gasme.
    Last edited by Deemure; Jan 29th, 2013 at 21:55:43.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    ... i dont know what to tell you.
    Then dont.
    The day the game becomes a job is the day I quit. I already have one.
    RK1 - Atlantean
    Lise "Gimpeline" Everwhite - Omni - Level 220/30/70 Martial artist
    Rudolph "Nissemann" Juhl - Omni- Level 220/30/70 Engineer
    Omni-Mining
    Mary "Gimpa" Wormwood 2xx/30/xx Advy R.U.R
    Josephine "Gimpyposer" Dredd 21x/30/70 mp Omni-Pol
    Jarwar 2xx/30/xx Crat Wanderers Sanctuary
    Proud member of Leet Protection Agency

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    But you can now decide how high upkeep you can afford to have as your organization expands. No one is forcing you to place all buildings at once. To have an operational city you would need HQ, Satellite Uplink and an ECM tower. That is 35m/month in a small city and 45m/month in a large city built to expand. This is a lower upkeep than the serenity island city.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    The discussion was about small orgs (how many players has never been mentioned as far as I remember). With Genele's comments, it seems that they feel small orgs (#s?) should merge to larger ones -
    I didnt take the post that way...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    Some of us want to stay in a small org and enjoy the game. Not gridng for the city upkeep every time we are online. We don't want it handed to us for free, but the same time we want time to enjoy the game. It's not every month I want to do city raids to sell armour or something valuble, but with dubble or tripple prices I have to
    I think what Gene is saying is that small cities are meant for farming. If you want all the bells and whistles you have to pony up some credit sink dough. If you just want to get some ai bots farming with friends then a small bare bones city is what you need. If you want bells and whistles either you better find some money grind time or find a larger more affluent org to join that already has them and can afford to maintain them.

    Same thing goes with ql200-300 towers, if you can't get the benefits on your own with small org you willhave to join a large org that has them.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    Then dont.
    The day the game becomes a job is the day I quit. I already have one.
    doesn't have to if you don't want it to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    Some of us want to stay in a small org and enjoy the game.
    buy a small plot for your small org and enjoy the game. i REALLY don't see the problem here. if you don't wanna pay 150m/mnth for a city you can scale the price down to whatever you're willing to pay (starting at 20m/mnth iirc) you set the price of your city and what you pay for it.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    doesn't have to if you don't want it to.



    buy a small plot for your small org and enjoy the game. i REALLY don't see the problem here. if you don't wanna pay 150m/mnth for a city you can scale the price down to whatever you're willing to pay (starting at 20m/mnth iirc) you set the price of your city and what you pay for it.
    I'm a member of 3 small orgs so I have to come up with 75 milion every month. Where do I put in the time for fun?

    Edit. Forgot the wanderers so acordig to layz caltulations it's 100 million a month
    Last edited by Gimpeline; Jan 29th, 2013 at 22:34:59.
    RK1 - Atlantean
    Lise "Gimpeline" Everwhite - Omni - Level 220/30/70 Martial artist
    Rudolph "Nissemann" Juhl - Omni- Level 220/30/70 Engineer
    Omni-Mining
    Mary "Gimpa" Wormwood 2xx/30/xx Advy R.U.R
    Josephine "Gimpyposer" Dredd 21x/30/70 mp Omni-Pol
    Jarwar 2xx/30/xx Crat Wanderers Sanctuary
    Proud member of Leet Protection Agency

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    I'm a member of 3 small orgs so I have to come up with 75 milion every month. Where do I put in the time for fun?
    And plainly this is FC's fault.


    Let's look at this another way. If this was real life, you'd basically be saying that you live in 3 different apartments at once, because you like the people that live with you in those apartments, but you'll cover all the rent/utilities/general bills of said apartments. See why your arguments don't sway us to your side? Being in 3 orgs is your own choice, covering the city of each is your own choice. No one is forcing you to do either of those things.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I didnt take the post that way...



    I think what Gene is saying is that small cities are meant for farming. If you want all the bells and whistles you have to pony up some credit sink dough. If you just want to get some ai bots farming with friends then a small bare bones city is what you need. If you want bells and whistles either you better find some money grind time or find a larger more affluent org to join that already has them and can afford to maintain them.

    Same thing goes with ql200-300 towers, if you can't get the benefits on your own with small org you willhave to join a large org that has them.
    You didn't quote the right part of the post I was referring to - this one sentence is where I question the "why" of all other decisions being made.

    " I also won't deny that I have made my decisions to encourage you all to make larger organizations and play together"

    It has me scratching my head...and I have asked the obvious question - what is small vs larger vs larger as to org numbers. Is the next step to give benefits to those orgs with # of players/toons? I dunno, in a game that is declining in popluation it seems like an incredibly odd statement - by a player, ok - but the GD?
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    I'm a member of 3 small orgs so I have to come up with 75 milion every month. Where do I put in the time for fun?
    Here is where you lost me.

    You don't have to pay for 3 cities, that is purely a choice. You could run raids for all 3 orgs from 1 city. Besides the adds it wouldn't make any difference, you still get a general and with team of 4 you still get ship invite.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    You didn't quote the right part of the post I was referring to - this one sentence is where I question the "why" of all other decisions being made.

    " I also won't deny that I have made my decisions to encourage you all to make larger organizations and play together"

    It has me scratching my head...and I have asked the obvious question - what is small vs larger vs larger as to org numbers. Is the next step to give benefits to those orgs with # of players/toons? I dunno, in a game that is declining in popluation it seems like an incredibly odd statement - by a player, ok - but the GD?
    AH I was actually thinking about these posts from a different thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I dont think the small plots were meant for anything more than pure farming sites. Not really for buffs. But even starting with small plot might be a nice option to have an "upgrade to large plot" feature so smaller orgs could work toward it without sacrificing current plot and starting over from scratch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    The small city was made for organizations that don't care about city bonuses, only having the ability to do alien raids, placing various social buildings and pushing costs to an absolute minimum.

    A typical farm organization and perhaps some RP organizations would chose this option. Any other organization should buy the large city.
    I just realized I was thinking about a diff thread post. Definately different perception from this thread.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    I'm a member of 3 small orgs so I have to come up with 75 milion every month. Where do I put in the time for fun?

    Edit. Forgot the wanderers so acordig to layz caltulations it's 100 million a month
    fc credit store. and you have rent paid in 3 cities for 3 months. job done.
    Last edited by Lazy; Jan 31st, 2013 at 02:13:25.

  13. #213
    There are too many posts to quote ...

    A small city rent with bare minimum bldgs is 35M ... small HQ, Sat Uplink and ECM. An minimum large city with only large HQ, Sat Uplink and ECM is 50M rent ... if you want to scale it up later after you can afford the rent. A large city with all the beneficial bldgs minus the Tax bldg, Swimming Pool and Landing pad is 90M ... plus 2M if you want a wampa. A large city with all the bldgs is 140M plus any wampas you plant. A Serenity Islands city cost 191M and 46M for rent. Outdoor medium/large cities apparently ranged from 22M to over 100M for rent.

    Some say who cares what the cost of operating an I-city is ... the current large orgs can afford it ... so new players can start playing a game that is new to them and join a large impersonal org if they want to have access to alien raids.

    Others say, yes the game economy has tons of credits, but that does not mean established small to medium orgs made up of a group of friends must suffer disbanding their org and joining a large impersonal org.

    More or some of the same folks say, why can't a group of friends that are bored of WOW all come over to AO as a group of New players and start a new small org and have the opportunity to have their own small functional city and access to the game they/we pay for?

    Which among you actually believe that a new player or small group of new players are going to get the org rank and rights to do raids at a large org city? The more established players of a large org will get first chance at raids and loot, not the brand new player.

    No one is saying combined armor should be handed out to everyone for free ... just that we all can play this game as we prefer. I have played AO since 2003, but I would not want to be one among a multitude of players in a large org where I don't know the members any better than players on a pick-up team. Others who play like to play in large groups ... 6 team raids etc. It seems to me there should be room for both types of game-play.

    Kinnik

  14. #214
    Sorry, but you honestly think a group of people from WoW would quit that game, which has content harder than any AO has ever seen, and come here? That's hilarious.

    Look, we're sorry that you aren't very good at socializing, but "I prefer knowing the people I play with" isn't a valid excuse. Storm is a "large org" that can afford the new city rent, and when I joined I barely knew anyone, but that changes when, you know, you actually play the game and perform activities with your org. Now, if any of the people I met in Storm were in the neighborhood, I'd be happy to lend them my couch, and I believe most of them would say the same. Just because we're a large org doesn't mean we can't be a family. We're not as impersonal as you make us out to be, we take care of each other.

  15. #215
    The arrogance in this thread has now reached critical mass.
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    .... snip .... and I haven't logged on in close to a year. I'm not even that rich when it comes to AO players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Sorry, but you honestly think a group of people from WoW would quit that game, which has content harder than any AO has ever seen, and come here? That's hilarious.
    So I guess WOW is where you have been for the past "close to a year" that you haven't logged on to AO ...

    Then why are you even posting here if you prefer WOW?

    Kinnik

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    So I guess WOW is where you have been for the past "close to a year" that you haven't logged on to AO ...

    Then why are you even posting here if you prefer WOW?

    Kinnik
    Yes, I've been playing WoW. And Rift, Planetside 2, TSW beta, SWTOR, Far Cry 3, Battlefield 3, Halo 4, and many other games. I wasn't aware that should disqualify me from the AO forums. Nice to know that's all you focus on, instead of my actual points.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Deemure View Post
    Also blitzing nano does not bring credits into the game unless you loot every mob and chest along the way and sell it at a kiosk. It only transfers it between toons to sell on gmi or channels.
    When I rolled my Fixer I decided I would have some fun and see how it would be to not use any existing creds I had built up, which at that stage was not much. I used to farm solo/team missions, loot everything not bolted down, and sell it off to the vendors. When I got usable nanos I tried to sell them to other players, as well as CRU from team mission bosses, but ~80% of the income I generated on him was vendor based and not player based. It didn't take me to long to buy all the gear I used while I leveled up, and then eventually his Symbs/CSS set that he's currently wearing.

    It might not be as fast as selling stuff to other players, but you can happily make some decent coin and you could support a full city with all buildings by yourself with a couple evenings work.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
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  19. #219
    I did a very un-scientific study of large orgs and city raid access ... basically I looked at 3 orgs with 1200 to 1400 members.

    All three had in the neighborhood of 1000 applicants. I can't tell how many were active or inactive members, but many were 220's.

    Of the remaining members not all had access to raids because their rank was too low. For two of the three orgs those members with a high enough rank to trigger a city raid was less than a third of the potential membership. The third org had between 2/3rd's and 3/4's of the active players able to start a city raid.

    So are these the definition of a large org? If so, how long does it take a new player to be promoted to a high enough rank? What is a new player's likely access to do city raids when 100 to 300 or more people are also trying/wanting to do city raids? You can only do 10 or 12 a day at best.

    Another question, what org leader wants to coordinate and/or monitor whether or not 1200 members have contributed their share of the rent each month? Or, do these large orgs levy an org tax on all members regardless of their rank, level, and/or ability to contribute?

    These are some of the reasons why I prefer a smaller org. In our org everyone who has the expansions has access to do city raids after their first toon has been with us for 2 or 3 weeks. We also have many applicants as we do not kick them for inactivity as we never know when they might return.

    Kinnik

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    I did a very un-scientific study of large orgs and city raid access ... basically I looked at 3 orgs with 1200 to 1400 members.

    All three had in the neighborhood of 1000 applicants. I can't tell how many were active or inactive members, but many were 220's.

    Of the remaining members not all had access to raids because their rank was too low. For two of the three orgs those members with a high enough rank to trigger a city raid was less than a third of the potential membership. The third org had between 2/3rd's and 3/4's of the active players able to start a city raid.

    So are these the definition of a large org? If so, how long does it take a new player to be promoted to a high enough rank? What is a new player's likely access to do city raids when 100 to 300 or more people are also trying/wanting to do city raids? You can only do 10 or 12 a day at best.

    Another question, what org leader wants to coordinate and/or monitor whether or not 1200 members have contributed their share of the rent each month? Or, do these large orgs levy an org tax on all members regardless of their rank, level, and/or ability to contribute?

    These are some of the reasons why I prefer a smaller org. In our org everyone who has the expansions has access to do city raids after their first toon has been with us for 2 or 3 weeks. We also have many applicants as we do not kick them for inactivity as we never know when they might return.

    Kinnik
    You know that anyone who is in the guild during a change of governing type gets auto-set to the lowest level? Chances are, since the game used to be a lot more populated than it is now, that a vast majority of those applicants are simply inactive.

    Next, when was the last time you were in a large org? Raids aren't being run all the time, and even those orgs with 1k+ members, probably 80% of those are inactive, and that's a low estimate. Plenty of time for whoever wants to run raids to do so, and all the people that are lower ranked have to do is ask for someone to lower the cloak. In Storm, we have a thread on our guild forums where you can ask for Squad Commander rank to be able to run raids without bothering others. We won't give SC to just any random recruit, but after a couple months (during which they can still simply as a higher ranking member), they can request SC.

    However, now you're arguing about something completely different. It's great that after 2 weeks you're comfortable with giving people the ability to blow up large swaths of your city, but even those of us with plenty of money to replace any lost buildings are cautious about this. The reason you don't just let anyone have the rank to raise/lower cloak is because at that rank they can also destroy buildings. Which is an important issue, but completely unrelated to the discussion at hand, so why bring up the ability of new recruits to raise/lower cloak?

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