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Thread: City Plot Prices and Upkeep

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    You know that anyone who is in the guild during a change of governing type gets auto-set to the lowest level? Chances are, since the game used to be a lot more populated than it is now, that a vast majority of those applicants are simply inactive.

    However, now you're arguing about something completely different. It's great that after 2 weeks you're comfortable with giving people the ability to blow up large swaths of your city, but even those of us with plenty of money to replace any lost buildings are cautious about this. The reason you don't just let anyone have the rank to raise/lower cloak is because at that rank they can also destroy buildings. Which is an important issue, but completely unrelated to the discussion at hand, so why bring up the ability of new recruits to raise/lower cloak?
    Yes, I am very much aware that when you change the government type everyone is changed to applicant and the org leader then re-promotes active players. As I mentioned our org has many applicants for this reason also.

    You have out-dated information about the rank required to lower the cloak for a raid vs the ability to destroy buildings.

    That was changed awhile ago so that the lowest rank eligible to lower the cloak can NOT destroy buildings. So yes our org is comfortable with new members who have been with us for awhile being able to do their own city raid with their friends and/or org members.

    My point was to illustrate how difficult it can be to have access to do city raids when you are a relative newcomer to a large org ... because you likely do not have the appropriate rank ... well in 2 of the 3 large orgs I looked at anyways.

    Kinnik

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    My point was to illustrate how difficult it can be to have access to do city raids when you are a relative newcomer to a large org ... because you likely do not have the appropriate rank ... well in 2 of the 3 large orgs I looked at anyways.
    "Hey, I want to run a city raid, anyone around that can lower the cloak for me?"


    You're right, that is extremely difficult, I don't know how anyone could handle such stringent requirements.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    "Hey, I want to run a city raid, anyone around that can lower the cloak for me?"


    You're right, that is extremely difficult, I don't know how anyone could handle such stringent requirements.
    Your logic has no place here ;( all these people have never been in an org larger than 3 people active and they don't know how a well organised one works and for some reason imagine that orgs are filled with hostile people who will hate you for asking questions, will never help you, and in general just ignore eachother. Except to go for raids for selfish loot attainment.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  4. #224
    Please stop with straw man arguments (all of you). I'd suggest that it is better to not make assumptions about how others orgs operate unless you've been in such places.

    We are talking about a requirement that will be doubled post merge for most people, and that's my most optimistic version. We may argue that a swimming pool is a luxury. Computer literacy, nanoskills and abilities however are not, and I never had a large HQ. No one like paying twice the next month's bill.

    I am sure those who spoke against the rise of the upkeep have no trouble raiding or farming with friends. It seems to me that those players have less time to play.

    Let's say that you can pay with only a couple of evening of work, what if one has a few evenings of play in the month? This means that that he will spend most, if not all his time paying the bills, or letting his org pay for him. In such case anyone sane will reconsider his hobbies.

    I am afraid that you may be right. AO would not be for people with less than several days of game time a month, and perhaps a category of players should leave, or plain drop their play style (I may assume that they liked it that way). That would be a shame because AO has been the most flexible game so far.

    I have no trouble about raising the difficulties of the city, I like the high initial price on the plot to start with. I can only approve the mechanics that brings joy and feeling of accomplishment in the game, and the upkeep does not bring any. It's an hassle.
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  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Boltgun View Post
    We are talking about a requirement that will be doubled post merge for most people, and that's my most optimistic version. We may argue that a swimming pool is a luxury. Computer literacy, nanoskills and abilities however are not, and I never had a large HQ. No one like paying twice the next month's bill.
    But all of the benefits from a city is a luxury, much like having tower sites and the associated contracts. I always built my chars, lowby or not, around not relying on towers / city benefits (because this was back when benefits used to bug all the time), and I don't see anything wrong with people going back to that.

    If you need to twink in a super-duper item that requires everything on the planet to accomplish, ask a friendly org which has a city / tower sites if you can join so you can achieve your goal, and then done.

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  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    But all of the benefits from a city is a luxury, much like having tower sites and the associated contracts. I always built my chars, lowby or not, around not relying on towers / city benefits (because this was back when benefits used to bug all the time), and I don't see anything wrong with people going back to that.

    If you need to twink in a super-duper item that requires everything on the planet to accomplish, ask a friendly org which has a city / tower sites if you can join so you can achieve your goal, and then done.
    I don't see it that way when we speak about some, but not all, of those bonus. I will not cast the top nanos, or keep bracers out of OE without a city. The later issue is specific to neut solds but I'm sure many had to lay down some IP in nanoskills to redistribute elsewhere. At least I'd say tradeskills can be borrowed from a friendly org easily.

    It is best for me to not qualify any stat benefit as a luxury, not even towers. Otherwise, what should be a luxury and what is not ? We can take a leap and tell that most high end bonuses and gear will be luxury, but start adding them up and you realize how short you fall. I have passed on many 'luxuries' already and this really shows now.
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  7. #227
    Once we couldn't cast top nanos without stuff like Professor Jones' Vest and wielding intelligence buff things and wearing Azure armor or similar. Some couldn't even cast the top nanos on basis of breed and had to make due with the next best thing.

    It's apparently become a part of the game that you should automatically have access to the top of the line, and it should not require sacrifice anywhere to do it. Some cry about this, some don't. Who's right, who's wrong? Not really possible to tell, it's a design choice, the problem comes when it only affects some small percentage of things.

    But would you, for instance say that as soon as you ding a certain level, you should, without any gear or what not, be able to cast the best possible nano for that level, now that we have level locks?
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    But would you, for instance say that as soon as you ding a certain level, you should, without any gear or what not, be able to cast the best possible nano for that level, now that we have level locks?
    Of course not! In fact I don't even use AMS V as I prioritized other stats over it. But I need to be able to cast pre nullity, after perking nano combat and equipping high end symb of course.

    I was just pointing that, as a permanent bonus to nanoskills, I cannot consider that a luxury but a part of the gear my character use (otherwise I can claim token boards and combined as luxury).

    We need hard objectives to achieve and I'm eager to fetch the nano mining ops in the deep end of pande if I have to (or make a big initial payment, whatever).

    My only way to get around the proposed system is to tell the org "okay we gather 1 year of rent in the bank, then we buy the city. I'll give a hug to the biggest donator, and we forget about it", I'm not challenging the money sink itself but its form.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Once we couldn't cast top nanos without stuff like Professor Jones' Vest and wielding intelligence buff things and wearing Azure armor or similar. Some couldn't even cast the top nanos on basis of breed and had to make due with the next best thing.....
    What does this have to do with AI Citys?
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  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    That was changed awhile ago so that the lowest rank eligible to lower the cloak can NOT destroy buildings. So yes our org is comfortable with new members who have been with us for awhile being able to do their own city raid with their friends and/or org members.
    There's another side to this issue, too, though, that the only solution is to use Department ranks. Give people SC and they're good. BUT under any other structure, there is no rank to allow someone to invite others to the org without giving them the ability to blow up the city.
    Because Race Yalm

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    There's another side to this issue, too, though, that the only solution is to use Department ranks. Give people SC and they're good. BUT under any other structure, there is no rank to allow someone to invite others to the org without giving them the ability to blow up the city.
    Organization rankings needs to be reviewed and revamped.
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  12. #232
    I agree with devs 100%. Our org now has the city for .. 2 years? Upkeep was never a problem, neither was raiding it. Infact most of the time 60% of the day it's unraided.

    2-3 man orgs however are bad for the game. If you are able to play 2-3 evenings a week or month, find an active org and let them pay for your city.

    I can imagine no active org would ever struggle to pay upkeep. I just don't see it... All it takes is to make one org Pande raid per month and sell 2-3 zod items. ... so 1 hour of fun per month to cover expense for largest city. If org can't do that why would it have city in the first place?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    There's another side to this issue, too, though, that the only solution is to use Department ranks. Give people SC and they're good. BUT under any other structure, there is no rank to allow someone to invite others to the org without giving them the ability to blow up the city.
    Our org uses the Pres, Advisor, Veteran, Member, applicant ...

    Veteran can drop the cloak but can not destroy buildings. The org rules only allow us 9 or 10 advisors so we don't really have to worry about that small a group destroying buildings. Org leader keeps one advisor on a froob/bank account so she/he can always invite new members if the other advisors are busy.

    But yes, there are differences between the government types and trade-offs if you want lots of people to be able to invite more members or lots of people to be able to drop the cloak without being able to destroy bldgs. I am assuming that you are saying that a SC can invite new members to the org and drop the cloak.

    Kinnik

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    I am assuming that you are saying that a SC can invite new members to the org and drop the cloak.
    Yup, and they can't blow up the city.

    As soon as I figured out Veteran didn't have the same privileges, I had to switch back. :\
    Because Race Yalm

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Georgesmith View Post
    All it takes is to make one org Pande raid per month and sell 2-3 zod items. ... so 1 hour of fun per month to cover expense for largest city. If org can't do that why would it have city in the first place?
    I know this is just one example of how to make money, but I'm going to say it anyway: Raiding anything solely to sell lootrights is not my idea of fun in any sense of the word. Infact I find it quite sad that so many people consider this normal and acceptable as opposed to actually doing things yourself with friends and rightfully earning it.
    Last edited by MajorOutage; Feb 1st, 2013 at 06:54:01.
    Because Race Yalm

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    I know this is just one example of how to make money, but I'm going to say it anyway: Raiding anything solely to sell lootrights is not my idea of fun in any sense of the word. Infact I find it quite sad that so many people consider this normal and acceptable as opposed to actually doing things yourself with friends and rightfully earning it.
    Well.. here is the logic.

    You go and do something for a bit, sell lootrights, cover a few months worth of upkeep for org city and then... for all those months, have fun?
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  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    What does this have to do with AI Citys?
    Because AI cities provide nano skills and ability benefits? If people weren't worried about these benefits, they could just pay 20m/month for the small city rather than worrying about how much the large city costs.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    I know this is just one example of how to make money, but I'm going to say it anyway: Raiding anything solely to sell lootrights is not my idea of fun in any sense of the word. Infact I find it quite sad that so many people consider this normal and acceptable as opposed to actually doing things yourself with friends and rightfully earning it.
    You don't have fun with your guild? Sorry, that's all I got out of that. I didn't think it was too difficult to understand. You kill some bosses with your guild, sell the lootrights for an item or 2 and then don't have to worry about rent for months. If selling the lootright completely negates all the fun you had while slaying that virtual enemy with your guild, I think you have a problem that might necessitate a psychiatrist.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpeline View Post
    What does this have to do with AI Citys?
    That there appears to be a belief that the buffs they provide should just kind of be there, without any sacrifice required.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    I know this is just one example of how to make money, but I'm going to say it anyway: Raiding anything solely to sell lootrights is not my idea of fun in any sense of the word. Infact I find it quite sad that so many people consider this normal and acceptable as opposed to actually doing things yourself with friends and rightfully earning it.
    So seeing a challenge, going out with your friends and overcoming it and making choices that matter and have impact on the present and future is not amusing to you? O.o
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Feb 1st, 2013 at 09:25:24.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Well.. here is the logic.

    You go and do something for a bit, sell lootrights, cover a few months worth of upkeep for org city and then... for all those months, have fun?
    Fun for you, but not fun for the people (your "customers") which you exploited as credit providers instead of including them in the content.

    And once the number of people willing to generate credits "for you" by grinding shop food reaches a critically low number, your system will simply cease to function.

    And then we all look for a new game
    No further significant work is expected to be done on this project going forward.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    I know this is just one example of how to make money, but I'm going to say it anyway: Raiding anything solely to sell lootrights is not my idea of fun in any sense of the word. Infact I find it quite sad that so many people consider this normal and acceptable as opposed to actually doing things yourself with friends and rightfully earning it.
    There's other point of the story.. you go to TNH with your boys, all of you have all belts you ever need... Pop belt drops. You let it disapear or you sell it and get months city upkeep? It's as simple as..

    /tell dnet !lootrights WTS Agility/sense TNH belt!
    Howmuch:Price?
    Me:100mil?
    Howmuch:I take it!
    Me:Can you wallhop?
    Howmuch:Yeah sure.
    Me:k crat is comming for escort.
    *Moments later*
    Howmuch has looted ze belt.
    Me:Gratz Thank you for shopping with us, let us know if you need more phatz!
    Howmuch: Thanks will do!

    It's kinda fun, we do not go raid ipande to sell lootrights we go to have fun, all it takes is 3 people to do fun content and unneeded loot drops. You sell it and city upkeep is covered. Infact more than that you usually get money leftover. All Org needs for this is a population of 3 people that can raid at 220 level.

    If Org has less than that in my humble oppinion org should not bother to exist at all. Why rent an appartment building for 2 people? Why not rent a small house? Devs give us an option to rent an appartment building and a large house. Why are we even complaining appartment building is hard to mintain by two people? And why are we complaining large house does not have a swimming pool, gym, shops, seperate bus station, bar inside it? Some houses have all that but they are called mansions and people pay big money to upkeep them.

    Move on with the times and connect with more people, join orgs, get toggether, have some fun, raid something with newbies, 100mil on 220 is "oh by the way" money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

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