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Thread: City Plot Prices and Upkeep

  1. #101
    Yeah, but bounties, etc. to me either fall into the mission reward or selling to shop groups. Just that some items/professions have "specialty" shop that increase the credits into the game.

    Similarly, the only way credits exit the game (permanently) are buying items from shops (basic advancd, trader, bounty buyers, npc, etc., from gmi sales commissions, from rents, and from players deleting toons with credits still on them. (even inactive accounts can be activated and the credits restored).

    Sorry I was not clear on what constitutes a "shop" but was referring to any npc, store, or kiosk where the credits are exchanged for an item or service to a funcom managed provider.

    But this really is the heart of the matter for the new rents. New (and probably many returning toons) simply do not have the capability without endless farming on RK or pearl farming in sl of generating the monthly rents. Because yes, it seems that with the massive credit sinks cities have become, more people are going to decide it isn't worth it. And, eventually the surplus built up over the last decade will be gone as well. There really needs to be some determination by funcom on the credit inflows and outflows so they can be reasonably balanced.

    I also disagree with making a pivotal aspect of the game a credit sink. Would much rather see "luxury" kiosk developed that would be unreasonably priced that would allow people to make their toon unique. Two items previously mentioned in other threads: Turn the cosmetic surgeon in the hq into a simplified version of the law enforcement sketch program where people could design a unique face. Then charge them massive amounts for the plesure. Second, do something similar with the social clothing in Muiir. I know many people would pay for ability to make their toons more identifiable/unique.
    Last edited by Deemure; Jan 22nd, 2013 at 01:34:32.

  2. #102
    Acctually the discrepancy between old rich players and newer not so wealthy is kinda scary. I calcuated that I have billions in GMI buy-orders alone, and I suppouse I'm not only one. If I cared one could do some calculations based on it...

    I do agree that new rents are high, but I still think they should be higher or same for majority maybe in 75M range for fully outfitted city...
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
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  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekarona View Post
    I do agree that new rents are high, but I still think they should be higher or same for majority maybe in 75M range for fully outfitted city...
    You mean higher than current rents on Live I assume ...

    I think most would be happy if the new rents for a fully outfitted large city was in the range of 75M ... rather than the 135M currently on TL (if you include all the buildings). That would mean a modestly outfitted large city would be somewhere around 50M? That would be double the low end of current modest cities (22M).


    Kinnik

  4. #104
    Though it doesn't affect me personally too much i do think the rents on TL are a smidge high. I do like how they scale more based on what buildings you have though.

    I would much prefer to see the rents as they are on TL currently cut in half, and the sales tax from GMI changed slightly. I think 8% sales tax of which 1/4 goes to org bank (2% of sale price) would suffice. This means that 6% of all sales is taken out of circulation to offset any reduction in presumed city rent takings.

    There is a few major reasons i think this would be best. Then biggest of these is that sales tax scales automatically by the size of the market. Higher price sales = more sales tax, and high prices are controlled by the total number of creds floating round the system. It follows that the more creds in the system, the more sales tax is taken. This will allow the economy to auto stabilise more effectively to changes in the games credit balance.

    This, in my opinion, is a better system than city rents as it required no intervention if/when it gets to the point where so many credits have been taken out that people cant afford a city anymore without a large scale credit influx system.

    This also has the advantage of hitting the greatest proportion of playerbase with the same % decrease in credits. While new players may experience a slight rise in prices, more experienced players will feel the same slight increase, but will also get the decreased sales income that comes with the majority of income coming from selling things via GMI. In comparison city rents affect the playerbase by the same credit value nomatter new player or vet.

    However this method would require the playerbase to get behind the changes and not whine and abstain from the use of the GMI because of a tax rise. *cough cough*

  5. #105
    Ergo, FC was wrong in the fact that ONLY a farming org would be using a small city. I got one so that myself and a few friends would be able to enjoy at least some of the city benefits, you know, things like comp lit, nano skills, ability skills, while not having to worry too much about spending time farming credits to maintain it. The rent for that is just over 40m. New rent = 65m. Yes, I could afford to pay that for a year by myself, the question though ... How can you reasonably justify that large of an increase? An increase up to 50M ... may be semi reasonable. I know that part of the main issue is, the plots for a small city are ONLY conducive to a single person farming org, not for a small org of friends. Yes, a large plot can easily be supported by a large org with lots of active players. That is one group of people that play this game.

    There is another group that have smaller amounts of people that play this game for fun. Maybe a couple of hours a week, maybe more often. FC has already managed to drive off a significant amount of people due to many broken promises and otherwise bad decisions on their part. Those people that have made billions and have 8+ 220 toons all with 4.5 billion on them and all of the phats in the world may not be affected by any decision FC makes because it honestly does not affect them at all.

    Part of the major discussion about this thread is that FC is doing more to drive people away, than attempt to increase the player base and keep people.

    If you can honestly say that increasing the city rent will attract new players and not drive anyone away, then I ask you to prove that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khlin View Post
    Fiddled a bit on Test with a small city plot. You can't use the Notum Mining Operations and Notum Silo buildings in a small city since there's no place where you can place it.

    The only space big enough to fit them is the one available for the ECM tower.

    And yes, no space for large HQ, Tax house, Sky bar, Sidewalk cafe or Swimming pool as well - they don't fit anywhere.

    Ergo, FC was right when they said it will be for 1-man orgs - aka farmers. Upkeep is no different than what farmers are currently paying for their Serenity Island cities today. Just a few less advantages with new plot.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post

    Not sure where you're going with "grid exits". At TL the city grid exit exists, it going to your city and the grid house @ your city sends you straight to the grid because they've upgraded the building.

    If you mean the hundreds of whompahs from the player cities which were shortcuts, well with Fgrid, Beacon Warp, all the old whompahs and regular grid terminals... we should still be good.
    I believe what was meant by grid exits are the current exits we get when we grid out to current outdoor city. For those of us with cities in zones without grid exits, this is a big bonus that is being lost
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    I believe what was meant by grid exits are the current exits we get when we grid out to current outdoor city. For those of us with cities in zones without grid exits, this is a big bonus that is being lost
    It was an extra bonus, which I think most who know the whompah and grid network can compensate.

    MD city is in Pleasant Meadows, we use it as a shortcut to fly north, zone and do Prisoners dailies.

    Alternative? Grid to 2HO, whompah to 4 Holes, whompah to 20K and you're in Pleasant Meadows and fly north.

    Not much of a difference, just a few mins.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Also... the current prices and upkeep in TL may not reflect what will happen to live. Let's try to be positive.
    Seeing as we have nothing else to even suggest that current prices and upkeep in TL won't be reflected in Live once patch/merge goes live, we can only assume that with lack of any further information to the contrary, that is how the situation will play out. Which is why I think there is no better time to let our thoughts on this be known than now

    Or we can keep silent,cross our fingers and hope but i personally don't think that's going to accomplish anything
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  9. #109

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    It was an extra bonus, which I think most who know the whompah and grid network can compensate.

    MD city is in Pleasant Meadows, we use it as a shortcut to fly north, zone and do Prisoners dailies.

    Alternative? Grid to 2HO, whompah to 4 Holes, whompah to 20K and you're in Pleasant Meadows and fly north.

    Not much of a difference, just a few mins.
    I don't think anyone is going to begrudge the fact that it is a bonus and that there are ways of compensating for it. The point the person who initially posted that was that it was still a "feature/bonus" we will lose AND we have to pay more for the privileg, which was thought to be unfair

    Btw, I'm not particularly arguing for or against this particular point, I'm just interpreting his argument since you misinterpreted it in your reply to him/her

    My personal position would be, in general, i do think the new rents are a bit too high but there's enough people already backing that opinion that I don't particularly feel the need to add to it
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    Seeing as we have nothing else to even suggest that current prices and upkeep in TL won't be reflected in Live once patch/merge goes live, we can only assume that with lack of any further information to the contrary, that is how the situation will play out. Which is why I think there is no better time to let our thoughts on this be known than now

    Or we can keep silent,cross our fingers and hope but i personally don't think that's going to accomplish anything
    Hey guys! I suggest you take the time to read stickies before going bonkers.

    If it's to much work for you to do that, here's me lending a hand

  11. #111
    And let me lend you a hand, pointing you to another post from the same person a few hours later which confirms that there will be price rises coming. http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...20&postcount=2

    Granted, we don't know the full extent of the new pricing, but again if it's anything like what we've currently got, lots of folks won't be happy. Nothing wrong with letting our feelings be known on the matter. If you're happy with it, all good there too, no skin off my back.
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by randymp View Post
    Ergo, FC was wrong in the fact that ONLY a farming org would be using a small city. I got one so that myself and a few friends would be able to enjoy at least some of the city benefits, you know, things like comp lit, nano skills, ability skills, while not having to worry too much about spending time farming credits to maintain it.
    Comp lit you get it from the grid house, some abilities you get from small HQ.

    Nano skills - did you give up the ECM tower?
    ----------------------------
    Showing why AO forum is not to be trusted - on S10 inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Multiple players in my org can make 200-300m maybe even 400m depending on lucky drops in 2 hours of farming the place. If you cannot see this as being an issue, then I don't know how to help you.

  13. #113
    ITT: People who believe they should be able to solo-fund a city intended for entire organizations.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    ITT: People who believe they should be able to solo-fund a city intended for entire organizations.
    Well... I've been doing that for many years but I've never complained about it, actually I've enjoyed being able to do this for my orgmates.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Well... I've been doing that for many years but I've never complained about it, actually I've enjoyed being able to do this for my orgmates.
    Sure, but not right when AI came out. Increased player wealth and decreased population has made it much easier for single players to fund cities. I see the increased rent as a move in the right direction, to make org cities more of an org activity once again. Something a lot of people in this thread are ignoring is the initial cost of the plots. They're either cheap or free post-merge (from what I've been reading at least). Most orgs that have had large cities over the past several years paid 800m+ for their city plot. That's close to a year of rent, before even adding any buildings.
    Last edited by Esssch; Jan 22nd, 2013 at 08:31:50.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Sure, but not right when AI came out. Increased player wealth and decreased population has made it much easier for single players to fund cities. I see the increased rent as a move in the right direction, to make org cities more of an org activity once again. Something a lot of people in this thread are ignoring is the initial cost of the plots. They're either cheap or free post-merge (from what I've been reading at least). Most orgs that have had large cities over the past several years paid 800m+ for their city plot. That's close to a year of rent, before even adding any buildings.
    When AI first came out and people purchased cities, many were funded by single individuals within the org due to ingot income. I know that I personally built and paid for 3 cities way back in the new AI days without any contributions from members. The biggest pain when AI came out wasn't paying for a city but getting the materials needed to build them to higher quality standards as that generally meant lots of full city raids, including ship, to get the viral serums.

    With viral serums falling from the sky (practically) in the APF's and the advent of the <50m/month upkeep iCity, Funcom turned what was a rare/luxury item into something standard. That was their choice (and I understood why they did it).

    The problem is, as a community, we have now adjusted to AI cities just being a standard thing because that's what the game devs turned them into. I've built and let die and rebuilt and let die I don't know how many iCities since they've come out.. they are practically disposable. Now the dev team has changed their mind and decided that AI cities should be a luxury again and the fact that some players don't see eye to eye on it should not come as a surprise. Couple that with the kinda dodgy reasoning (we want people to join large orgs and play together?) and I'm personally confused.

    Over the years, the game has changed from large team content to small team content. By that I mean that the days where you had to gather a raidforce (multi-team groups doing the same activity) to do something in AO, on a semi-regular basis, are long gone (only exception being S42). They've gone from the days of multi-team things happening daily like Eel raids or Mercs to raids (using that term loosely.. they're no more raids than a frat boy entering a sorority girl's top dresser drawer) in Xan that only require 2 people.

    When you only need 2 to 6 people to do almost everything in the game there is no wonder that people have leaned towards smaller organizations. There's almost no real need to have an org with 40 or 50 or 100 people online because at any given time you aren't going to need more than 2 or 3 others to get something done. The lockout timers, poor loot tables, simple ease of content and such are all reasons to stay away from being part of a large group and stick with small, well organized strike forces. Couple that with the fact that more people = more personality conflicts and quite often more drama and the hassle of managing large organizations simply isn't worth the effort.

    So if the devs want people to form larger orgs and play together maybe give an in-game activity (i.e raids) that warrants the need rather than inflating the price of an AI city with the hopes that small orgs are going to feel squeezed out enough to merge into a big org. Actually I can make a list as long as the combination of the posts I've written this week with ways that the dev team can encourage team play. Almost all of the ideas would revolve around providing players with more engaging content and reworking the way loot drops and is distributed.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 22nd, 2013 at 09:38:26.
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  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Sure, but not right when AI came out. Increased player wealth and decreased population has made it much easier for single players to fund cities. I see the increased rent as a move in the right direction, to make org cities more of an org activity once again. Something a lot of people in this thread are ignoring is the initial cost of the plots. They're either cheap or free post-merge (from what I've been reading at least). Most orgs that have had large cities over the past several years paid 800m+ for their city plot. That's close to a year of rent, before even adding any buildings.
    Or the realy crazy prices large cities went before instanced ones...
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    Ekadv gimp/gimp Female Opifex Adventurer

  18. #118
    What about it being a "known issue" that upkeep prices are wrong?
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    What about it being a "known issue" that upkeep prices are wrong?
    Some buildings add which shouldn't and there is minor issues with prices. Still what we have gotten is that the price will be much higher...
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
    Ekaslave 220/low Female Solitus Trader, FLAT(TM) pricing TS, almost all can do!
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  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Sure, but not right when AI came out. Increased player wealth and decreased population has made it much easier for single players to fund cities. I see the increased rent as a move in the right direction, to make org cities more of an org activity once again. Something a lot of people in this thread are ignoring is the initial cost of the plots. They're either cheap or free post-merge (from what I've been reading at least). Most orgs that have had large cities over the past several years paid 800m+ for their city plot. That's close to a year of rent, before even adding any buildings.

    This concept might be reasonable if there were enough players left in the game to reasonably able to schedule and execute org. activities, or at least enough players with an interest in doing so. When cities came out, we were running raids of over 30 people regularly. Now we are lucky to get a full team. Nice idea, but without a massive increase in player base (which the merge won't really help as the same people play on both servers) it remains an exercise in wistful thinking.

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