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Thread: Monthly Development Update -- January 25th 2013

  1. #301
    Back on topic: AO is death death.

    Discuss
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizenglish View Post
    My approach to things on rk4 or rk2 are the same - If I love doing something I put in a lot of effort, and make big achievements.

    You can go through life blaming others or making excuses for why you do nothing - or you can make the effort positively. I know which is my approach.
    No offense but your approach seems to be to bury your head in the sand like an ostrich and blame all the bad things on the few people that are keeping the game alive, rather than the real culprits: the company behind the game. You seem to think that new players would be too stupid to figure things out for themselves if we stop pointing out the obvious which is just.... ludicrous. If FC does not care enough about their own game to fix it, then why should I, or anyone else, waste their time trying to fix something that simply is not possible for us to fix?
    Last edited by Luminita; Jan 31st, 2013 at 17:10:10.

  3. #303
    "If you trully love AO then do something to help it grow".

    i don't think paying for 1 or 2 or 3 account or buying items shop help it grow, you wont make AO more profitable for FC than it was and when it was, they didn't do anything ...

    Only things that seems to actually make em move was the massiv unsuscribe wich seems to weirdly bring some new stuf.

    i know a lots of ppl that love that game just as you do , but they think they gave enough money to FC like that, to wait on announced things that never happen and see unexcpected things happen (someone asked an itemshop here?).

    when i started this game ppl were already saying it was dieing so player statment has no real effect... time to stop being a sheep or at least don't blame those who stoped fgs.
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  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminita View Post
    No offense but your approach seems to be to bury your head in the sand like an ostrich and blame all the bad things on the few people that are keeping the game alive, rather than the real culprits: the company behind the game. You seem to think that new players would be too stupid to figure things out for themselves if we stop pointing out the obvious which is just.... ludicrous. If FC does not care enough about their own game to fix it, then why should I, or anyone else, waste their time trying to fix something that simply is not possible for us to fix?
    Your view of my approach seems to be the mirror of how I see the approach of people that do nothing more than moan.

    AO has one of the steepest learning curves of any MMORPG. Newbies needing some help/guidance is somehow ludicrous? I know because I personally deal with about 30 newbies (to AO) per month. Some need more guidance than others.

    Funcom is a business. If you don't help fund that business, the business is sure to fail.

    Do I think Funcom has made mistakes? Of course I do. BUT, I don't sit back and whine about it.

    I love AO, and I haven't played it for years for the graphics, for example (that so many seem to think is all a MMORPG is about), but for other things - like the depth of it, and the community.

    Do I contribute to the game I love - Yes I do. Do people, that log in to moan the game is dead or just troll, contribute - No.

    If it is that bad in your opinion, why bother log in or post on forums? Go play WoW - that's surely better in your business model ideas.
    President, The House of Black Star

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Misat0 View Post
    I love the music of AO, even got the soundtrack CDs and enjoy listening them once in a while.

    But oddly I have it turned off in the game, as I can't stand it there.
    I too like the music but have it switched off, mainly because I like to hear the sound effects, and the music spoils them.
    A new light shines upon Rubi-Ka,A new channel is opened in the grid feed,
    A new Team dedicated to the distribution of knowledge is formed.
    >>> AO-Universe <<<
    For the People, By the People.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizenglish View Post
    I know because I personally deal with about 30 newbies (to AO) per month. Some need more guidance than others.
    Wow, I don't mean to troll, but I honestly did not think there were that many newcommers to AO :S
    Where do you hunt them ?
    Thornee - resurrected lowbie, former 200 Fixer
    Stannerd - 220 Soldier
    Megusta - TL7 Doc
    Kaleeh - TL5 Shade

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorneee View Post
    Wow, I don't mean to troll, but I honestly did not think there were that many newcommers to AO :S
    Where do you hunt them ?
    We (a Neutral org) advertise on Neut OOC, and Newbie OOC. I keep a toon lev 9 logged in to watch for people asking for help in Newbie chat.

    I keep our org membership iro 1,000 by regularly clearing inactives.

    We grew from 700ish to 1k+ last year using the above approach.

    I help newbies that join us by providing a starter bp (carb armour set, imps, belt, and a few nanos), as I don't like just giving credz.

    It is a quiet time of year so we have iro 20 online at a time. At busier times it is often 30-50.

    We have many members that keep toons specifically for tours of RK/SL and dungeon loot runs etc. Our own version of a new player experience.
    President, The House of Black Star

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorneee View Post
    Wow, I don't mean to troll, but I honestly did not think there were that many newcommers to AO :S
    Where do you hunt them ?
    Myself i hunt in Galway Shire; Rome Blue / Red / Green and Jobe.

    You learn to tell from a glance; or from a quick scan of their gear - who's likely to be a new character and who's a new player.

    You ask; they admit to being new - then you can embark upon giving them useful items, credits to get started; advice - the works. Anything to help someone beat AO's bleak start and get interested in the game.
    I tend to also ask if the person can afford to pay for the game if they wanted to - so I know whether its cruel or not to then tempt them with every subscriber-thing I can muster to convince them to sub.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizenglish View Post
    We (a Neutral org) advertise on Neut OOC, and Newbie OOC. I keep a toon lev 9 logged in to watch for people asking for help in Newbie chat.

    I keep our org membership iro 1,000 by regularly clearing inactives.

    We grew from 700ish to 1k+ last year using the above approach.

    I help newbies that join us by providing a starter bp (carb armour set, imps, belt, and a few nanos), as I don't like just giving credz.

    It is a quiet time of year so we have iro 20 online at a time. At busier times it is often 30-50.

    We have many members that keep toons specifically for tours of RK/SL and dungeon loot runs etc. Our own version of a new player experience.
    Yeah, you're the guys who are constantly /macro Advertisement /g Neu. Newbie OOC Join our org! Don't go Omni or Clan, just stay Neutral!

    I see what you're doing there ;D
    AO - JukeJoint "Nuhmudiira" Jezebel - 208/18 Trader - Omni

  10. #310
    I've been avoiding posting on the forums because well.. it's become a bad habit, but figured I'd chime in on this.

    I started in the org now presided by Liz, back in 2004. Black Star =UO= had a very helpful and friendly atmosphere and it is (in many ways) the model I used when I created my own orgs (Neutral, Majestic and later Clan, Events by Jill). That being said, despite the fact that I was doing as much as I could/desired to try to be part of the solution, I always felt as if my effort was in vain.

    Sure, I helped newbies, provided some raids for players, did education seminars to teach people different aspects of the game, etc.. but at the end of the day that didn't stop those same people from eventually quitting the game due to factors that were completely out of my control (such as population, missed deadlines on critical game updates, subscription cost, too much reliance on higher level toons for even basic things, etc). When you spend the amount of time I spent helping other people only to see that Funcom's own actions were the ultimate cause for people leaving, despite what you tried to do, it is disheartening. (And no I don't think I'm anything special in this regards. There are plenty of people that have helped others, but I can only tell things from my own perspective.)

    It's coming up on 9 years since I first stepped foot in Anarchy Online. The time I've spent in game and friends I've made are not something that I take lightly. When you care about a game, like I know I do, you want to see it improve.. you want to see it grow. So yes, over the years (especially the past 4 or so), I have been very vocal in regards to what I felt was going wrong. I felt it not only my obligation as a fan of the game but something that I had a right to do as a paying customer. Pretending that issues do not exist and not letting the people that can fix said problems (Funcom) know your thoughts are not necessarily the right solution, in my opinion.

    We all have our own thoughts on what is the right thing to do to try to keep the game alive. For me, it was to try to organize events in game for players, continue to pay for at least 3 subscriptions while at the same time staying up to date on things on test server, posting my thoughts on changes and situations that were affecting players and, in a couple situations, making guides to help others with things in-game. Now, my approach is different. I decided last year that the best approach would be to speak with my money and stop funding a game that didn't have enough people to qualify it as a MMOrpg (and of course that always gets delayed by buying large chunks of play time at a time) while at the same time continuing to provide constructive feedback on relevant topics that would affect the game's future.

    I logged in to AO a couple days ago and there were literally 2 people in Old Athen. I checked all around (with the exception of inside the shops) and there were only TWO people when normally at that same time I can remember the place being almost annoyingly littered with people. I'm not sure what's going on with the game these days as I simply can't be bothered to log in.

    To be honest, at this point, I don't even know what could motivate me to seriously play the game again. The server merge is a small attraction but the drama I believe will take place over Sector 42 is not something I personally feel like dealing with (I doubt funcom will instance sector 42 before the merge and my faith in AO players not griefing each other is pretty low at this point). I would like to get my accounts in order, but the lack of knowledge as to how the whole thing will play out keeps me from resubbing inactive accounts to get things swapped around. The server merge that was supposedly so close to being done that it was announced as possibly being rolled out in November or December hasn't even had a simple FAQ posted for players. They still haven't told us how many slots we'll get.. even though supposedly it was almost ready for roll-out 2 months ago.

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but at the same time I am a pretty logical person. If they announced that the server merge was ready to happen at the end of November yet still can't tell us basic information (like # of account slots) then I get the feel that perhaps the end of November thing was an intentional ploy to get people to resub accounts for an influx of year-end cash.

    Anyway, I'm ranting so i'll just stop here.
    Events by Jill is a premier event planning organization. We organize events such as scavenger hunts, educational seminars, tours, raids and social gatherings.

    "If it's an Event by Jill.. you know it's done right!"

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuhmudiira View Post
    Yeah, you're the guys who are constantly /macro Advertisement /g Neu. Newbie OOC Join our org! Don't go Omni or Clan, just stay Neutral!

    I see what you're doing there ;D
    Well, the honest advice we give is:

    "If new to AO, here's a little advice to get you started. Speak to NPCs (Blue Names) for missions/quests. Collect loot from dead mobs to sell or use. Buy the starter nano pack for your profession. Upgrade your starter weapon: http://www.ao-universe.com/index.php?id=14&pid=106 (Some upgraded weapons allow you to buy another to dual wield - Engies keep 1 un-uprgraded). Stay Neutral until you have learnt the basics of the game. Join an organisation (most orgs help/advise their own members). Finally, remember to have fun "

    I do believe staying Neutral whilst at least learning the basics is good advice.

    Traderjill is someone (despite having diferent opinions on some things [as seen by our posts here]) that I have always had a great deal of respect for. I admired the efforts put into raids organising and training events, etc. Your presence ingame is sadly missed.

    *** BTW I don't believe 'In-game development by players actions' is off topic
    Last edited by Lizenglish; Jan 31st, 2013 at 18:56:43.
    President, The House of Black Star

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizenglish View Post
    Funcom is a business. If you don't help fund that business, the business is sure to fail.
    Do I think Funcom has made mistakes? Of course I do. BUT, I don't sit back and whine about it.
    A business wich rely on customer charity (or help as you name it) is kind of dead already, and QQing on forum about FC draining the last bubble of blood from our fav game isn't conflicting with helping nooby or buffing people.

    About graphic, it's not that graphic are everything ofc, specially if you love already the game. It's not about graphic rly anyway, it's about getting the stuf FC promise back in JANUARY 2008 ahah
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  13. #313
    I have often done my best as a player to keep this game alive. Which is to point out the things that I think need to be changed to improve the game and make it more attractive for new players. It is up to Funcom's management to hire enough people capable of evaluating and upgrading the game so that new and old players enjoy and stay in the game.

    To ME it seems obvious that FC is NOT interested in investing in this game to renovate it.Merely in milking it bone dry.

    Organizing a "salvation army" for the poor is very good for the ego of the passionate. But by its own nature it is a self defeating strategy. People dont play games to make other people feel good. They play games to feel good themselves. Most players want to see that they achieve something, not handouts nor sterile and boring gameplay that takes them nowhere.

    There is nothing, NOTHING the players can do to keep a game alive when the game is neglected and the gameplay broken to keep a few friends happy at the cost of making the game unplayable for most.

    But we are all "barking to the moon", and the moon is just like the honey badger. So lets all just keep the old forum traditions alive.

    FLAME ON!!

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizenglish View Post
    Your view of my approach seems to be the mirror of how I see the approach of people that do nothing more than moan.

    AO has one of the steepest learning curves of any MMORPG. Newbies needing some help/guidance is somehow ludicrous? I know because I personally deal with about 30 newbies (to AO) per month. Some need more guidance than others.

    Funcom is a business. If you don't help fund that business, the business is sure to fail.

    Do I think Funcom has made mistakes? Of course I do. BUT, I don't sit back and whine about it.

    I love AO, and I haven't played it for years for the graphics, for example (that so many seem to think is all a MMORPG is about), but for other things - like the depth of it, and the community.

    Do I contribute to the game I love - Yes I do. Do people, that log in to moan the game is dead or just troll, contribute - No.

    If it is that bad in your opinion, why bother log in or post on forums? Go play WoW - that's surely better in your business model ideas.
    I pay for 4 full accounts. That is quite a bit of $$$ support and it allows me to post on the forums and express my like/dislikes with everything going on. If FC doesn't want to folks to talk/moan/groan/etc - they can shut down the website tomorrow.

    How much more contribution do you think a player should give? If the game was F2P - maybe your comments would be valid, P2P no.
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  15. #315
    There is a major difference between helping the community of this game, and helping the developers of the game.

    After 8 years I'm still sympathetic towards the community and if someone needs help with their bot or whatever I'm usually more than welcome to help, and I still log in to the PoN org every now and then because I can.

    However, I don't share these sympathies towards Funcom, and by extension, the developers of AO. In fact, I'd go as far as saying unsympathetic. I laughed when Vhab lost his job, and the worse Funcom is as a company, the better I feel. That is how betrayed I feel right now, with all the broken promises.

    So yes, helping the community of AO, which in itself are quite the fun people (and have nothing to do with the state this game is in now), is all fine and dandy. However I'll never send any money or extend a hand to Funcom ever again; it only leads to disappointment.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpynoob View Post
    People dont play games to make other people feel good. They play games to feel good themselves. Most players want to see that they achieve something, not handouts nor sterile and boring gameplay that takes them nowhere.
    I do get enjoyment out of helping someone to see the wonders of the game that is AO. The excitement and enthusiasm from them is reward enough.

    BUT, I am the sort of player that would rather get a 'plz' and 'ty' than a tip for my help (buffs/TSs).

    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    I pay for 4 full accounts. That is quite a bit of $$$ support and it allows me to post on the forums and express my like/dislikes with everything going on. If FC doesn't want to folks to talk/moan/groan/etc - they can shut down the website tomorrow.

    How much more contribution do you think a player should give? If the game was F2P - maybe your comments would be valid, P2P no.
    I agree by paying for accounts you have the right to make your feelings known. You are making a contribution.
    My comments are targeted at people that make no contributions other than negative complaints (as previously stated).
    Last edited by Lizenglish; Jan 31st, 2013 at 19:25:57.
    President, The House of Black Star

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizenglish View Post
    I do get enjoyment out of helping someone to see the wonders of the game that is AO. The excitement and enthusiasm from them is reward enough.

    BUT, I am the sort of player that would rather get a 'plz' and 'ty' than a tip for my help (buffs/TSs).



    I agree by paying for accounts you have the right to make your feelings known. You are making a contribution.
    My comments are targeted at people that make no contributions other than negative complaints (as previously stated).
    You say that and yet I have played this game since 2003, have multiple paid accounts (even a couple of toons in your org) and still I don't seem to be entitled to an opinion if it differs from yours.

  18. #318
    [QUOTE=Lizenglish;6113640]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpynoob View Post
    People dont play games to make other people feel good. They play games to feel good themselves. Most players want to see that they achieve something, not handouts nor sterile and boring gameplay that takes them nowhere.
    QUOTE]

    I do get enjoyment out of helping someone to see the wonders of the game that is AO. The excitement and enthusiasm from them is reward enough.

    BUT, I am the sort of player that would rather get a 'plz' and 'ty' than a tip for my help (buffs/TSs).
    You play the game because you enjoy helping others. But what enjoyment does someone get out of being helped instead of doing things by themselves?

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizenglish View Post
    ...I agree by paying for accounts you have the right to make your feelings known. You are making a contribution.
    My comments are targeted at people that make no contributions other than negative complaints (as previously stated).
    This is where we differ. Negative comments are a contribution. In fact, they may be more helpful than positive comments to the company as they illustrate things where the company is not meeting customer expectations.
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminita View Post
    You say that and yet I have played this game since 2003, have multiple paid accounts (even a couple of toons in your org) and still I don't seem to be entitled to an opinion if it differs from yours.
    Depending on what topic you are refering to?

    We as an org have policies against taking sides, seeing true neutral as not doing towers or flagged PvP. Other than that, behaviour is such as racism, homophobia etc ...

    Nothing to do with my opinion, I just stand by the policies of the org as they have been for nearly 10 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpynoob View Post
    You play the game because you enjoy helping others. But what enjoyment does someone get out of being helped instead of doing things by themselves?
    Helping someone to help themselves. Helping when someone is in a rut or stuck.

    Not the same as doing all their leveling for them.
    Last edited by Lizenglish; Jan 31st, 2013 at 19:39:29.
    President, The House of Black Star

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