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Thread: Mongo Rage

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Poko View Post
    Mr is really a fair perk, do you wanna know why? Because getting 1500 ar with one click is about us fair as getiing 1k def with one click. If after so many years you haven't found a way to evade it, or use your other tools for it. I don't think its a problem with the perk, it may be in how you play. :s
    sure. drop MR to 1k ar every 10 mins, make ai perks check aao once only and i'll agree it's balanced :S

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    sure. drop MR to 1k ar every 10 mins, make ai perks check aao once only and i'll agree it's balanced :S
    if it gives 300 perma ar and 80 crit inc, im ok with it!

    the problem is that some profs need mr to have a chance vs evaders(like most melee profs) and to some it gives them way too much power because they already have insane def and get insane off with mr at the same time(like you mentioned above: fixers)

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    speaking as a fixer with MR perked it's an ezmode iwin button that only fails when i'm too drunk to see the screen properly. MRing out of LOS and running in to queue perks on most people is instawin. on smarter people might take an AS after MR is down to drop them. i find it hard to believe that people actually believe MR is in any way a fair, balanced, well thought out tool that should stay ingame as it is.
    you know i respect you, but you havent easymode droppd my agent, my advy or my fixer with it. ever. doubt it helps you vs docs, enfs, nts, engis, mps and soldiers as well. so what are these most people you talk about?

    again, i never said it's fair, balanced and well thought out. i just don't get why its so much worse (and we're talking like 20-50 times, measured in posts) than other things i mentioned several times already. well i do get it, i just think don't think the priorities are in order here. and people just make stuff up to cry about it. it's just not true that every prof has enough perk dd to q in 0-1 sec to instakill everyone, even with specials.

    and i am saying, even with mr, there are encounters were people just don't bother to try to kill each other.
    Last edited by Xootch; Jul 13th, 2013 at 23:35:46.

  4. #44
    http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/...time/stats.php

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_time

    Just some basic information on reaction time, as the argument about mongo rage being balanced due to the existence of defensive buffs is also dependant on the defensive buffs being a viable tool to counter mongo rage. I could additionally bring up the issue about evasive buffs boosting player defensive values at amounts less than mongo rage boosts offensive values, and that mongo rage is not limited by profession as defensive buffs are, however there are far too many variables to make this a valid argument or to even make arguments against it (the static CiB defensive buffs and static acrobat defensive buffs should be added to the temporary perk buffs in an argument, while double AAO effects and reduced def checks should be included in the mongo rage argument.)

    The links to information about reaction time (which there are far more if people are interested in searching themselves) are for indicating the minimum time a player can be expected to use a tool like defensive stance "after" a player uses mongo rage. After being a necessary variable because no player will have psychic capabilities which extend through cyberspace enabling a player to predict when an opponent will use an offensive tool. There are also delays including latency, and a good average should be between 60 to 110 ms I believe based on distance from the servers (if someone knows a more accurate value that would be good).

    This should establish a minimum, reasonable reaction time to a player noticing another player using mongo rage and "clicking" to about 250 ms or 1/4 of a second. Unfortunately there are other variables, such as sensory overload from an active screen compared to a duel in an unpopulated area without distractions. In the case of towers or borealis, your ability to recognize mongo rage being used and reacting at optimal times will be hampered. Going into this much depth is unnecessary, however.

    After a player is aware of a target using mongo rage, and proceeds to use their defensive perk, they have only two issues left. The first is that defensive perks have activation times, this adds a necessary delay to defensive perks taking effect.

    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=239811
    Deceptive stance is 2 seconds

    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=214181
    Evasive stance is 2 seconds

    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=227062
    Dodge the blame is 2 seconds

    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=211453
    Dance of fools is 1 second

    For professions using Dance of Fools, you can reliably activate the ability within about 1.25 seconds of a player using mongo rage, for other evade professions using temporary perks you can reliably activate the ability within about 2.25 seconds of a player using mongo rage. This does not include a delay for players having to physically locate the key necessary for activating their defensive perks.

    So the question now becomes, after activating mongo rage, how long does a player require to fire his special attacks and initiate all his offensive perks? Without further including abilities such as stuns and fears, which not only delay reaction times but completely prevent the use of defensive tools, a player is required to hit only two keys on most professions to activate all specials and all offensive perks. Given the player is not reacting to an unexpected event, as is the case with the defender, an attacker is able to react to the use of his own perk much faster. For the sake of argument, let's put the total reaction time to 50 ms and latency at 100 ms, for a .15 second delay in activating their perks. This does assume that a player has hot keyed their offensive perks to 1 or 2 keybinds.


    The conclusion is that an attacking player has, from the moment they activate mongo rage, a typical time of about 2.1 seconds in which they can activate their entire offensive perk and special based toolset into a target before they activate defensive based perks which will prevent those perks and specials from landing successfully. Against some professions the time may be a minimum of 1.1 seconds. Unless the attacking player is high, intoxicated, or in some other way delayed by outside forces at the fault of themselves and not the game mechanics themselves, there is no reasonable way for an attacking player to not succesfully use mongo rage to "perk" and "hit" a target without the target being lucky. Luck is merely a factor of a player activating a defensive perk in reaction to either another player or simply activating it randomly with a positive result.

    Based on this, mongo rage is not balanced in comparison to defensive tools.



    TL : DR version

    Attackers always have the advantage over defenders because defenders have to react to the attackers after they use their tools. This is common sense, stop trying to be witty.

  5. #45
    that is true if you wait for the mr animation to happen.

    also, the two button argument isnt true for reasons mentioned above.

    again: i dont think its optimal. but you're infering mr should be counterable by evaders. if that way true, what point would there be in having mr at all?
    Last edited by Xootch; Jul 17th, 2013 at 19:22:18.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Xootch View Post
    that is true if you wait for the mr animation to happen.

    also, the two button argument isnt true for reasons mentioned above.

    again: i dont think its optimal. but you're infering mr should be counterable by evaders. if that way true, what point would there be in having mr at all?
    Your assumption that I made an inference is incorrect, I am only providing evidence to invalidate your own inference than MR is balanced due to the existence of evade toolsets. A series of information which conflicts with someone's statement does not necessarily make the claim for the opposite argument.


    If I were to make a claim, it would be that MR is an unbalanced tool regardless of any other existing tool based on it's functions as:

    An offensive tool

    A tool without meaningful drawbacks

    An effective tool

    Those three together create a tool which works on the advantage of attacker over defender (which is a factual advantage that cannot be argued in any situation other than player vs computer in which the computer can read your input and react to it "before" you even use your tool), does not leave the attacker vulnerable, and works as a tool which allows players to frequently kill players.

    There is no tool which can be compared to mongo rage, and if you would like to propose any specific tools which you may argue as equivalent in strength then I would be more than happy to provide valid reasons as to why they are inferior offensively.

  7. #47
    first of all, do you even have a pvp char or are your experiences only from the pvm chars in your sig?
    your argumentation was based on 1 possible situation in a fight and that was when the evade prof is flagged/attackable and the mr prof is not. thats always favorable for the attacker, with mr or without.
    if its the other way around, the mr prof is flagged/attackable and the evader attacks, the evader fires first his 1k aad perk, which lasts 1min, before attacking,and is unkillable with kiting(atleast vs melee profs) for the duration of the perk.
    if you take the third possiblity, that both are attackable(like on bs) you can see the mr prof coming and can fire your def perk. with a bit kiting it is activitated before the mr prof is in range(speaking here mainly of melee profs because they are the main mr profs).

    as i said before, i think mr is balanced because its not a 100% win button like most think. there are ways to counter it for evade profs and to survive it. and its necessary for melee profs to kill evaders.

    the only thing which needs fixing is the debuff. but on the other hand the 1k aad perk from evaders should get a debuff too
    Last edited by Hassler; Jul 17th, 2013 at 23:59:31.

  8. #48
    Cause clearly a on hand defense vs MR which u can use every 10 minutes is absurdly OP

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Hassler View Post
    first of all, do you even have a pvp char or are your experiences only from the pvm chars in your sig?
    your argumentation was based on 1 possible situation in a fight and that was when the evade prof is flagged/attackable and the mr prof is not. thats always favorable for the attacker, with mr or without.
    if its the other way around, the mr prof is flagged/attackable and the evader attacks, the evader fires first his 1k aad perk, which lasts 1min, before attacking,and is unkillable with kiting(atleast vs melee profs) for the duration of the perk.
    if you take the third possiblity, that both are attackable(like on bs) you can see the mr prof coming and can fire your def perk. with a bit kiting it is activitated before the mr prof is in range(speaking here mainly of melee profs because they are the main mr profs).

    as i said before, i think mr is balanced because its not a 100% win button like most think. there are ways to counter it for evade profs and to survive it. and its necessary for melee profs to kill evaders.

    the only thing which needs fixing is the debuff. but on the other hand the 1k aad perk from evaders should get a debuff too
    My argument was not based on 1 possible situation, it was based on all PVP in which players are engaging one another. When a player is using an offensive ability, he is an attacker, and the one receiving the offensive ability is called a defender. You do not need to be unflagged to use MR in PVP...why am I even having to type this out as if this is not common knowledge? Ever see someone use MR later in a fight? It's how you kill evaders who use their defenses.

    I would also like to know what this "mr prof" is if you could describe it for me and how you can freely expend your 10 minute lockout defensive perk just because you happen to see this player in the distance? That is, of course, if the defensive perk is not in cooldown.

    I would like to point out that people with MR can also be people with evades or people who are not easily ganked.

    Your suggestion about adding a debuff to a perk with a 10 minute cooldown which doesn't even prevent people from being perked, it simply prevents people without MR from perking you, is a terrible idea. As a little example to make this perfectly clear, if I, on my crat, can be perked by a shade who is not using MR while I am not using my 1000 AAD perk, how does boosting my AAD by 1000 save me from a shade who can boost his AAO by 1500?

    I will also not go into details about my PVP experience, but I would at least hope you would realize that a Remod Crat is not a PVM built character.


    As one last note I will point out a very simple fact. Failing to kill someone with Mongo Rage does not mean it is not a 100% win button against evaders, it means the player failed to use a 100% win button correctly. A tool is only as good as the person using it, and that includes tools that can kill someone without fail.

  10. #50
    pardon me then.

    as pistol.



    calling it a 100% win button is just plain ridiculous.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennypacker View Post
    Cause clearly a on hand defense vs MR which u can use every 10 minutes is absurdly OP
    did you know that most profs have more def perks/mechanism than just one? crat has 3def perks and a fear, advy has coccon, shade has 5k absorb and the new nemesis nano, ma has heal perks/items and a fear,fixer has already insane def even without the 1k aad perk and a meep

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    My argument was not based on 1 possible situation, it was based on all PVP in which players are engaging one another. When a player is using an offensive ability, he is an attacker, and the one receiving the offensive ability is called a defender. You do not need to be unflagged to use MR in PVP...why am I even having to type this out as if this is not common knowledge? Ever see someone use MR later in a fight? It's how you kill evaders who use their defenses.
    with later you mean after 1min? i really dont think most fights go that long except duels and after it you still have other def mechanism left. most duel chars dont even have mr perked or are a other breed because there are other ai lines too which give a higher benefit for duels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    I would also like to know what this "mr prof" is if you could describe it for me and how you can freely expend your 10 minute lockout defensive perk just because you happen to see this player in the distance? That is, of course, if the defensive perk is not in cooldown.
    as i said in my post, i spoke mostly about melee profs(enf,shade,keeper) because they are the main mr profs together with fixer.
    why you should fire your perk? because he will use his mr to alpha you as soon as possible and even if he sees that you used your evade perk while running towards you, you got 1min time to kill him.
    yeah you still have a 9min recharge after it but thats why most profs got more than just 1 defence tool(+ there is a reason why most crats are nm).


    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    I would like to point out that people with MR can also be people with evades or people who are not easily ganked.
    yeah true but that doesnt occur often except with fixers. there the problem is rather their insane defence paired with their insane offence they got from mr, which is OP together but not mr as a perk solo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Your suggestion about adding a debuff to a perk with a 10 minute cooldown which doesn't even prevent people from being perked, it simply prevents people without MR from perking you, is a terrible idea. As a little example to make this perfectly clear, if I, on my crat, can be perked by a shade who is not using MR while I am not using my 1000 AAD perk, how does boosting my AAD by 1000 save me from a shade who can boost his AAO by 1500?
    I will also not go into details about my PVP experience, but I would at least hope you would realize that a Remod Crat is not a PVM built character.
    you got a 3676 def check with the setup in your sig.i dont have a shade, so correct me if im wrong but i dont think anything will land there except the ai perks, which do about max 5,5k dmg without any reflect. that means you still got 9k hp left and should survive the alpha with a fear. so i would be interested how a shade without mr can kill you.
    you are missing 10 ai perks and thus a 500 nr/aad perk. and yeah i thought it was a pvm char because you are solitus and most team pvp crats are nm because it gives the highest advantage. sorry for the misinterpretation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    As one last note I will point out a very simple fact. Failing to kill someone with Mongo Rage does not mean it is not a 100% win button against evaders, it means the player failed to use a 100% win button correctly. A tool is only as good as the person using it, and that includes tools that can kill someone without fail.
    or the defender failed to use his toolset to his fullest.. as you said, a tool is only as good as the person using it. if its a 100% win tool, tell me how an melee mr prof has to use it to kill a kiting and outbuffed fixer
    Last edited by Hassler; Jul 18th, 2013 at 10:11:48.

  12. #52
    Mongo Rage is FINE, leave it alone.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSneakyRussian View Post
    Mongo Rage is FINE, leave it alone.
    It's not

  14. #54
    Hmm, going Atrox on Enforcer and playing around with MR a bit, I can say that it is a bit over the top. But, then again, so are evades. ( being another story).

    In my opinion, either lowering the recharge of evade defensive perks to revolve around the recharge time as MR or raising the recharge on MR to 10m could somewhat help the OP-Ness.

    Not only is recharge being low in comparable to defensive ones, one of the causes to it being so op, but the fact that you can now keybind everything to one button makes it even more brainless, keybinding shouldn't have been introduced that way. But oh well i guess. Being able to hit MR then a keybind while defensive perks have a cast time kind of kills the purpose of what those " Oh ****!" buttons are suppose to do.
    Vispa 220/30 Trader || Maravillosa 220/30 Enforcer || Ermosa 220/30 Fixer
    Sanadome 220/26 Nano Technician || Vispah 220/30 Adventurer || Salonter 220/30 Engineer
    Catarac 220/25 Agent ||Abejorro 216/21 Bureaucrat ||Chaparrito 170/24 Agent

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Vispa View Post
    Hmm, going Atrox on Enforcer and playing around with MR a bit, I can say that it is a bit over the top. But, then again, so are evades. ( being another story).
    and thats exactly why its balanced in my view

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Xootch View Post
    pardon me then.

    as pistol.
    A 2500 to 4000 aimed shot every 11 seconds is one moderate to high damage hit every 11 seconds. It can also be stopped by blockers, and in most cases RRFE or absorbs mitigate most of the damage from the AS pistol. AS pistol, on it's own, is not enough to kill anyone.

    Perk+special alphas utilizing Mongo Rage vary in damage, but generally it is enough to completely alpha a character with RRFE who has around 16k max health or less. Without Mongo Rage players would be forced to kill other players over time and with their abilities or by building their character to actually defeat a target rather than creating defensive builds which hug Mongo Rage to still kill players. Stopping Mongo Rage requires powerful defensive tools and often the use of more than one to survive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassler View Post
    did you know that most profs have more def perks/mechanism than just one? crat has 3def perks and a fear, advy has coccon, shade has 5k absorb and the new nemesis nano, ma has heal perks/items and a fear,fixer has already insane def even without the 1k aad perk and a meep
    Yes, but then you run into the problem of reaction times again, and the simple fact that queuing every perk you have from a hotkey is instant while activating defensive perks takes at least 1 second. The exceptions are the temporary items such as absorb items, however, these have a longer lockout than mongo rage and can often be cleared with a single aimed shot/sneak attack. Once the absorb is gone those perks are still firing.

    I cannot remember if cocoon can continue to activate while you are stunned. As for DoF and Limber, those are generally not enough evades to stop you from being perked by an MR user as long as they have some AAO gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassler View Post
    with later you mean after 1min? i really dont think most fights go that long except duels and after it you still have other def mechanism left. most duel chars dont even have mr perked or are a other breed because there are other ai lines too which give a higher benefit for duels.
    It can be anytime during a fight, because players are generally not going to expend their defensive perks immediately as more experienced players are not going to utilize their MR at the start of a fight either (unless they are in the process of striking first). Players that rush at you while using MR at a distance are nothing more than noobs, aka people who fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassler View Post
    as i said in my post, i spoke mostly about melee profs(enf,shade,keeper) because they are the main mr profs together with fixer.
    why you should fire your perk? because he will use his mr to alpha you as soon as possible and even if he sees that you used your evade perk while running towards you, you got 1min time to kill him.
    yeah you still have a 9min recharge after it but thats why most profs got more than just 1 defence tool(+ there is a reason why most crats are nm).
    Neither the enforcer nor the keeper will die in 1 minute unless they are terrible players or their own defenses are down (this is a reality which applies to both sides). The shade and fixer both have 1 minute duration perks as well. Now both you and your opponent are supposed to be unkillable. 1 minute passes. Both the fixer and shade still have defensive perks while you use your last defensive perks. Now you are out of defensive perks. The fixer and shade use Mongo Rage, they fully perk you, they land their specials, you die.

    The issue is not that defensive tools are unable to counter MR, the problem is that people with MR have defensive tools as well, when both players no longer have defensive tools to use it is the one with MR who is going to be perking and hitting you until it kills you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassler View Post
    you got a 3676 def check with the setup in your sig.i dont have a shade, so correct me if im wrong but i dont think anything will land there except the ai perks, which do about max 5,5k dmg without any reflect.
    You can reach over 3.5k AR with a shade through drains, blur has a reduced defensive check and also reduces target AAD by 200 points (so generally you can say shade has 3.7k+ AR for perks in offensive setups). You can also use temporary items to buff that AR but I would rather exclude those for the time being. Shades also have a proc for reduced evades, and worst case scenario the shade is benefitting from AAO OSB's (however you should always argue that others could be benefitting from AAD buffs). Regardless, it is possible to perk a crat with 3.8k static defense, such as mine, as a non-atrox shade.

    Also the crat is solitus because I planned on using either Sphere or Survival for mass PVP, as I consider team benefits a higher priority at towers than a self only 5k absorb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassler View Post
    or the defender failed to use his toolset to his fullest.. as you said, a tool is only as good as the person using it. if its a 100% win tool, tell me how an melee mr prof has to use it to kill a kiting and outbuffed fixer
    True, but you will eventually run out of defensive perks and abilities or a hole in your defenses will appear. At this point you are vulnerable to MR in most cases (castable stuns or good timing on your root grafts being life savers in some encounters). The problem is using those items fast enough, because the moment MR is activated all a player has to do in most cases is hit one button and land practically everything he has on you.

  17. #57
    The problem with attaching a debuff to MR is that it doesn't matter on the profs it's OP for.
    OP for enf
    OP for fixer
    OP for Shade
    OP for advy
    3/4 of these profs have cocoon, shade has tattoo.
    Every opponent who is faced with MR alpha is not thinking about attacking to make use of the debuff, they are thinking how do I stun! !!! !!! and coon.

    Case #1
    Enforcer in duel venue
    with about 60k HP, an enforcer has exactly nothing to lose by using MR in this situation. There is zero downside. (CONC likely to be taken, AI line is poor choice for PVP enf)

    With even little to no skill, an enforcer vs any evade prof can easily outlast 1 to 2 minutes of pressure from an evade prof and wait out their high AAD defences.
    Popping MR early results in either a kill or a more defensive battle for the next 2.5 minutes.
    Popping MR late results in a kill

    Case #2
    Enforcer in mass PVP
    Here there is again no downside. With a flurry of activity all around there's no possible way an evade prof could assess who is going to be the receiver of the alpha if the enforcer hasn't /q yet.
    Furthermore, a easily viable tactic is to /follow and just harass an evade prof until regulars, AI perks start landing more frequently, then MR to finish them.
    Again, No downside.

    Case #3:
    Shade with MR, anywhere
    Any fight with a shade with MR is bound to end badly for the opponent for two reasons, 1. the shade is likely balls out defensively setup, meaning their static defences plus CD defences will keep them in the fight for a decent length of time. This entire time the opponent is expending effort to kill a very tough opponent... but all the while the shade merely needs to play defensively because he knows his kill chance is coming very soon, and he hasn't even been attempting to make a kill yet.
    then, when most defences are expended, MR and perk death ensues.
    No drawbacks.
    In fact, because of the method of setting up defensively, there is even greater benefit for shades due to the somewhat mutually exclusive setups possible. (the defensive setup is by far the better option for nearly all encounters save evaders, but, with MR you eliminate this perceived drawback)

    Case # 4
    Fixers, anywhere, at anytime
    Maintaining unperkability for a fixer isn't difficult, it's only a matter of doing what comes naturally. A moderately offensive or defensive setup doesn't change the vastness of evades provided by natural perks or equipment.
    While fixers don't need MR, adding MR to the toolset provides an extremely easy method of dumping the wait time before attempting a kill.
    No drawback. (loss of 80 evades and a couple damage perks, or 100 nano skills and 1 perk)

    Case # 5
    Advies (melee/ranged)
    WTF stupid. The only possible drawback to using MR on advies is that it's not needed.
    Both ranged and melee are fully capable of waiting out defences on their opponent and achieving a kill, ranged often before the defences are expended... just killing opponents right through their defences. (great planning FC)
    Adding MR to the toolset actually doesn't result in much significant benefit, instead it only lowers the period in which the advy waits before making the kill.
    Drawbacks: either 1 less AI perk (ConC), or lack of some evades+the calling (3.5-4k heal)
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Jul 19th, 2013 at 01:33:59.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Case #3:
    Shade with MR, anywhere
    Any fight with a shade with MR is bound to end badly for the opponent for two reasons, 1. the shade is likely balls out defensively setup, meaning their static defences plus CD defences will keep them in the fight for a decent length of time. This entire time the opponent is expending effort to kill a very tough opponent... but all the while the shade merely needs to play defensively because he knows his kill chance is coming very soon, and he hasn't even been attempting to make a kill yet.
    then, when most defences are expended, MR and perk death ensues.
    No drawbacks.
    In fact, because of the method of setting up defensively, there is even greater benefit for shades due to the somewhat mutually exclusive setups possible. (the defensive setup is by far the better option for nearly all encounters save evaders, but, with MR you eliminate this perceived drawback)
    That's actually pretty incorrect, unless something major has changed since i used to play with my shade, a defensive setup gets you around 2,6-2,7k ar (if you go full def even less) this means around 4,1-4,2k ish ar with MR activated, this can be countered by most evade profs out there, MR is most effective on shades when you are in a fully offensive setup. And if you are trox then u cant swap your spirits fast or mid fight.

    MR is over the top, i think most people can agree on that, but so are evades and AS. I can even survive MR ganks from most profs on my bow MP unless iam completely unaware and self buffed/afk/have all my defs down because of a previous fight, in any case i kind of deserve whats coming to me. But there are sooooooooo many other things in this game that takes priority over nerfing MR.
    Last edited by Burgly; Jul 19th, 2013 at 04:53:53.
    RK
    Roxburry 220/30/70 Cratz0r
    Roxbury 220/25/70 Shadez0r
    Bolrn 220/27/70 Mpz0r
    Arrow83 220/27/70 Solz0r

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    A 2500 to 4000 aimed shot every 11 seconds is one moderate to high damage hit every 11 seconds. It can also be stopped by blockers, and in most cases RRFE or absorbs mitigate most of the damage from the AS pistol. AS pistol, on it's own, is not enough to kill anyone.

    Perk+special alphas utilizing Mongo Rage vary in damage, but generally it is enough to completely alpha a character with RRFE who has around 16k max health or less. Without Mongo Rage players would be forced to kill other players over time and with their abilities or by building their character to actually defeat a target rather than creating defensive builds which hug Mongo Rage to still kill players. Stopping Mongo Rage requires powerful defensive tools and often the use of more than one to survive.
    1.please elaborate how it is 'in general' enough to alpha 16k plus hp trough rrfe. that is just a myth.
    2.ah. a nonevadable 'moderate to high' hit every 11s for support profs is not op? especially in your favorable secenario of a prolonged fight? that's just ridiculous. sorry. that's beyond reasoning.
    3.prolonged fights? as mentioned before, we are already in a state where some fights are just so futile, that people rather not bother. how is that good? people should be killable in a reasonable amount of time. well. but if that is your vision for pvp, you really must hate nts.
    '

  20. #60
    FC gave troxs MR cause atrox is hardest breed to play with and without MR no one will play atrox again

    if they will balance all breeds then they might do some changes to mongo rage

    but you cant really remove or nerf mongo rage and leave nano mage with 5k cocoon and high reflect perk

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