Mongo Rage

[Wyoming]

But they -don't- because alls it means is they can keep an offense alongside their huge defenses. Emphasis on alongside.

[Lazy]

Try a duel vs. shades, solds, MA, Enforcer and all other classes without an AS weapon. Dots will mostly be useless (NR too high, Nano drained, skills drained, or all aspects together), MALP will be countered more then 50%. Spamming isnt that useful since your nano will be empty before your oponent will even recognise a loss of hp.

who said that they need more damage? no one... dumo only stated that doc without AS will lose vs most of the profs because they lack dmg to kill them

guys, there are more AS weapons than just troll pistol. without troll pistol docs don't lose an as.

[Hassler]

never said there arent ones :P without troaler it will be pewher+onehander... i think that is about 700 less AS dmg but that would be the only difference

[Contra]

What's with this hate with the Troaler?? Stats wise it's a mediocre pistol. It does good aimed shots, yes, but it's not a guaranteed cap. Only agents have that. Besides, aren't people supposed to be used with the AS mechanics by now?
And who said you can wear a Troaler without sacrifices on a support profession? Docs need full CSS for it, gimping their HP by a large ammount. Crats are in the same bucket, needing to gimp their implant slots and armors for it, rendering their CC toolset A LOT less efficient.
I feel this hate towards this pistol is unjustified, considering the plethora of absurd items and alphas in this game.

[RedWatr]

people hate the OH, but i love it, because it's random, and the only way to get a relatively dependable AS from it is by working hard at it, giving up certain things for a better result. the AS pistol on the other hand, is like equip and profit, and from what I've seen, it really does just require equipping it.

[Xootch]

It is from a docs point of view.

I fought several times against Aymee and the only mentionable thing was his HP. Tbh, he got more HP then the most docs nowadays, but the AS and overall PVP performance was purely average.

MALP is a nasty and helpful - without a doubt. But thats nearly the only really viable offensive tool for a doc. Putting the 3 dots into the discussion - thats a horrible argument. Too long casting times (except Nanite C dot) and the NR check renders them relatively useless in the most situations.

This thing with "a support prof doesnt need to be able to kill anything" is a bit retarded. In every other game, every support profession is able to kill (almost) as good as the real damage classes. Who in AO said, or where is it written, that a support prof is not ment to do so too ?

Try a duel vs. shades, solds, MA, Enforcer and all other classes without an AS weapon. Dots will mostly be useless (NR too high, Nano drained, skills drained, or all aspects together), MALP will be countered more then 50%. Spamming isnt that useful since your nano will be empty before your oponent will even recognise a loss of hp.

Yes, we docs can heal pretty much. Impressive, since thats our main purpose. But ever since AO (and any other game) is existing - you wont kill a target with just surviving with heals. Maybe you beat your oponent with a massive ammount of boredom damage. Maybe.

Greetings,
Dumo

yes, you got it, he got hp. rendering it almost impossible to kill with those heals by most profs.
so no. a doc with that hp and heals shouldnt kill as good as a damage prof. that is not retarded, that is just common sense. what's the advantage of a "damage" prof over a doc if that was the case? i disagree with the very fundamentals of your point of view.

[Dumonde]

1.) @ Wyo: Just like Hassi said - I dont request more damage for a doc. Didnt say that anyhow, anywhere. Designed to outlast your oponent... ? Surviving wont kill anything. Fights, duels, are senseless if you can not win.

2.) @ Xootch: Heals and much HP are fine as they are, main defense of this prof. Every other prof got similar defensive tools. But they got even way more possibilities to kill.

That argument is a no-brainer. You need to put into your mind that the defensive skills of other classes are different. Our heals might be huge - but only if we are not disturbed. Bio cocoon, Evade (perks), almost everything can be executed instantly and without the possibility of beeing turned off. Almost, I know. But our main defense is totally fragile. It can be interrupted, extremly slowed down, massively reduced or simply hindered (by stuns and or drains or NSD).

And in the end, even if they are executed successfully - they only prolong our life, nothing else.

Comparing Doc Heals as a defensive action with for example Evades are just like comparing a p.enis with a v.agina - both are g.enitals, but in fact not the same.

3.) @ Lazy. Its not a point that we would loose AS tho, I dont get your statement at all. There are even other SMG, would you love to carry a Hawk MK 6 in pvp and loose significant damage ? I dont think so. The arguments sense are the same

4.) @ Contra: Docs need full CSS with gimping the HP ? Simple answer: No.

I simply want to state that we Docs are only viable in PvP (with succeeding in killing some1 else) with MALP, Troaler - and MR. Sure, Solitus and NM Docs can kill without MR, but it is even less. Taking away the Troaler which is the most constant and highest damage, would throw docs back into a helpless profession. And no, neither the shovel nor the SSB nor the OH are really mentionable.

There is a reason why all endgame docs doing pvp use the Troaler.

[Contra]

There is a reason why all endgame docs doing pvp use the Troaler.

That's because there aren't "better" alternatives. If there is one, name it.
Why do you try to imply that docs are somehow worthless in PvP without the Troaler? Docs are probably the best duel profession in the game. You don't believe me, go check the duel stats of all the PvP docs you know and you'll find out for yourself. The ratio is many times higher then 5 wins to 1 loss. That's better then almost every other profession out there.
Docs could kill people before Troaler AND before Malpractice. In fact, Malpractice spam alone is enough to kill people, in time. And that's the beauty of the doc profession, they outlast.

On the sacrifices made subject, if you want high DD aimed shots you NEED combined armor(cc/css) wich gives alot fewer HP bonuses(doc's best defense) then other available armors. And even with a full set of CC/CSS I doubt a doctor can cap more then 4 out of 10 aimed shots on any target. I can't cap it that often on my crat, who's sacrificed alot of nanoskills for it.
Really, this hate towards this pistol is a little over the top.

[Dumonde]

That's because there aren't "better" alternatives. If there is one, name it.
Why do you try to imply that docs are somehow worthless in PvP without the Troaler? Docs are probably the best duel profession in the game. You don't believe me, go check the duel stats of all the PvP docs you know and you'll find out for yourself. The ratio is many times higher then 5 wins to 1 loss. That's better then almost every other profession out there.
Docs could kill people before Troaler AND before Malpractice. In fact, Malpractice spam alone is enough to kill people, in time. And that's the beauty of the doc profession, they outlast.
.

At first, I got around 450 duel wins - I think I can say atleast that I did a few duels. Duel ratios are not saying anything at all. I personally do duels vs oponents, not easy targets. But there docs who only do duels with an almost guaranteed win. And have a ratio 5:1 then. Impressive, tells nothing at all. And again, Outlasting means nothing more then outlast something. Not defeating something or someone.

But anyway,

only spamming MALP ? Lol. For winninig? Lol. You apparently never played an endgame doc - if you do, you should pick a bit more decent targets then. Shall I list a couple of profs in which a "MALP spam" alone wont help anything? Sure:

- Enforcer
- MAs
- Engis
- Crats
- Keeper
- NTs
- Shades
- Soldier
- MPs
- Trader
- Docs

If any decent player of any of these profs would loose even 1 single duel while a doc does nothing else then spamming MALP (and heals ofc) - then its prolly not a decent player. Seriously.

Sure, there arent mentionable alternatives. And due to that fact, taking away the Troaler, would take away an essential part of our pvp-viability. Thats a fact that can be discussed, twisted and turned, but nothing will change that fact. Maybe you got me wrong, but I am not throwing h8 against it - I try to defend it.

Greetings,
Dumonde

[Contra]

At first, I got around 450 duel wins - I think I can say atleast that I did a few duels. Duel ratios are not saying anything at all. I personally do duels vs oponents, not easy targets. But there docs who only do duels with an almost guaranteed win. And have a ratio 5:1 then. Impressive, tells nothing at all.

But anyway,

only spamming MALP ? Lol. For winninig? Lol. You apparently never played an endgame doc - if you do, you should pick a bit more decent targets then. Shall I list a couple of profs in which a "MALP spam" alone wont help anything? Sure:

- Enforcer
- MAs
- Engis
- Crats
- Keeper
- NTs
- Shades
- Soldier
- MPs
- Trader
- Docs

If any decent player of any of these profs would loose even 1 single duel while a doc does nothing else then spamming MALP (and heals ofc) - then its prolly not a decent player. Seriously.

Sure, there arent mentionable alternatives. And due to that fact, taking away the Troaler, would take away an essential part of our pvp-viability. Thats a fact that can be discussed, twisted and turned, but nothing will change that fact. Maybe you got me wrong, but I am not throwing h8 against it - I try to defend it.

Greetings,
Dumonde

I've actually did play a 219 doc with a little better gear then yours. Duel wise, it's VERY strong, even without BI. I killed people with it and also got my arse handed to me a few times. After playing it for a few months I came to a few conclusions:
-Malpractice needs to be nerfed. It's very OP.
-Anatomic Blight needs to be removed. It's very OP.
-doc heals are over the top. The 214 heal is more then enough to keep you healed in ANY encounter.
-if I'm paying attention, none of the professions you've listed above is able to screw me over with 2 exceptions: shades cause of nano drain proc and perks and traders cause of GTH.
-longest fight I've had was with an enfo. We ended up drawing the duel cause we were both bored

[Hassler]

-Anatomic Blight needs to be removed. It's very OP.

yes but all other procs should be removed too... nsd proc gives -2k nanoskills and lasts for 1min. its not removeable and its not even breakable like anatomic blind. same with drain procs

-doc heals are over the top. The 214 heal is more then enough to keep you healed in ANY encounter.

gl with that. a good 220 engi does more dmg then even BI can outheal when hes using hhab+perks(so for about 10-15s). the 214 heal heals less than half of BI.
same with soldier. you can never outheal their alpha with the lvl 214 heal even when its a asr soldier. even less when its a smg sold with 11s AS.

-if I'm paying attention, none of the professions you've listed above is able to screw me over with 2 exceptions: shades cause of nano drain proc and perks and traders cause of GTH.

did you play your doc 5 years ago?
you dont stand a chance vs a good crat, you only have like a 20-30% chance of winning vs a good ma and vs enf or sold its 50/50.

[Wyoming]

If only two professions can kill one other, then that's 11 classes it dominates.
Which is really OP.

[wonderland]

Most of the time, Fxers do not kill doctors, but they can kill doctors if they get a capped aimed shot, or are in a very heavy offense setup.
Competent metaphysicists always kill doctors. Thanks Nanobot Contingent Arrest, dominates, and -dmg debuffs.
Melee adventurers have a chance to alpha low health doctors, after +dmg patch.
Competent bureaucrats slam the crap out of doctors. Thanks +dmg patch, unremovable init debuffs, and fear.
Competent enforcers slam the crap out of doctors. Enforcers that know what they're doing usually get 3 to 5 alphas against a doctor 1v1, which a doctor usually has to use at least two items/heal perks to stay alive if the alpha is strong, like Kittenf or Toxicrush's. Thanks +dmg patch. It's impossible to live against those alphas otherwise. Of course, it's not very hard to stay alive against the majority of enforcers, but I think it's only okay to talk about balance if only taking into consideration of the strongest players. That's just in duels, not even including fear.
Competent martial artists can kill doctors if they don't use almost every heal perk they have, close call, and reanimator cloak to stay alive. You also need to use complete heal to actually try to get a heal off while they have 3 billion init debuffs on you. If a doctor does live against a martial artist, they can slam the hell out of them. Thanks +dmg patch.
Shades against bow doctors depends on chance. Shades always kill pistol doctors thanks to spirit phylaktery drains allowing shades to go for ages against doctors, then draining their nano.
Soldiers can kill doctors, depends on chance, specifically from capping aimed shot. +dmg patch gave every soldier like 3000 to 5000 extra alpha damage.
Agents can potentially alpha a doctor, but it depends on chance and how fast the doctor uses a free movement.
Competent traders typically stalemate with doctors. Grand theft humidity ain't crap, it's their other nanodrains, nanodrain procs, and drain procs that hurt you.
Whether a doctor kills another doctor depends on who lands anatomic blight first.

The clearest thing here, if you have reading comprehension and don't read this as, "He's saying doctors are underpowered" (Which I'm not), is that I'm clearly saying that whether doctors kill most professions, or whether most professions kill doctors, is heavily influenced by chance. Enough to where it's not fun. Doctors are definitely more balanced after the +dmg patch, where beforehand they were a little overpowered. But balanced doesn't mean fun, and you need both to have a game people love. Of course, they need design changes like, "Change anatomic blight," and "lower the amount of their heals, while giving them more options to defend themselves with," but just because they're balanced doesn't mean there shouldn't be changes.

Free movements can affect whether you get slaughtered or not, but the biggest deal is that 90% of the time when you use a free movement stim, it still doesn't remove the stun immediately. It still takes 1-1.5s to actually have the stun removed from your NCU. Therefore, if you do not use a free movement unless the stun is 3s+ in duration (Because of cast time), you usually will never get the stun removed and will still get chainstunned. I don't know why this is, but this is the case. This is, of course, in the context where a profession can/will use more than one stun on you in a row. Of course, a few professions have enough stuns (Including brawl) where they could just stun you excessively to just "flush out" a free movement stim. A good example of this, is that melee can brawl stun you when they see a free movement to get a 20% chance to essentially win. You can guess a free movement, but considering everyone's alpha is different, and a lot of people just reorder one or two things every time against a doctor, you're really only guessing if you try to cast the free movement before the stun comes to get some more time. I would love to imagine a world where everything is so fluid that free movement stims cast themselves .9s before the first stun comes, doctors immediately heal themselves to full, malpractice never falls off at IV just because it was countered twice, and have absolutely no issue ever using their 15000 heal every 4s and then use that to say that doctors are clearly overpowered public enemy #1 superprofession, but that's not how the game is. But forum perception of things is typically way off in contrast to reality anyway, so I'm not bothered.

Contra's (Who is also Malraux, Fontane) never played Alphaheal. He's just talking out of his butt again. The funny thing is, according to him in another thread, most professions, including a nanotechnician and agent (As long as they're played by Contra) could kill a doctor, and now he's saying that's not true at all (?). Apparently he could also kill "Every doctor within 2s" on his defensive focus nanotechnician. I don't know what's with him always changing his stories.

Doctors were overpowered in 1v1 maybe like, during lost eden. After Xan, and especially after +dmg patch, they're more balanced now. But they're not really very fun considering a lot of their encounters are really heavily influenced by chance, more on the end of the enemy, especially in cases such as soldiers. Whether you live or die after +dmg patch a lot of the times involves whether the soldier caps an aimed shot. Whether you live against shades as a bow doctor depends on whether you cap aimed shots and how fast their nano drains land. It's possible for a doctor with 2400~ health to get alphad by a keeper if they actually cap their aimed shot, sneak attack, and get a brawl stun. Whether you live against enforcers is heavily affected by whether their sneak attack caps or not.

After +dmg patch, I can say doctors are a lot less fun thanks to being able to die to crap players, or the ever-unrewarding feeling of being able to kill people you shouldn't. I personally would rather play an underpowered profession and be rewarded by how well I play, not because of whether someone capped an aimed shot, what perks and proc chances landed, and what nanos were countered. "Noone can alpha doctors, they can just outheal everything" is nowhere near true in modern day. This was true during lost eden. Now everyone else has a lot more alpha power, and most people have init debuffs and stuns. It's not too complicated to just flip on a nano drain ring and use the active while the doctor is malpracticing you to cut their damage short and live, or just run away to keep alive because doctors don't have many tricks up their sleeves like some other professions.

One of the larger pains with 1v1ing with doctors outside of duels is the lack of any way to remove roots and snares, or to root and snare enemies. Root grafts are removed with one free movement stim, doctor's damage is low, and everyone can just run away and healdelta to get another alpha. It's the biggest pain around, and anyone who's played a doctor or soldier I'm sure is more than well aware of the ranged adventurer running away to regain health, soldier running away to his friends to kill you when his alpha fails before AMS runs out, or the enforcer who you know you have no chance of killing because he'll just bolt across the map before you even get close to killing him. Not even going to go into fixers' or bureaucrats' rooting and running away. Trying to play a doctor and 1v1 people in the battlestation in a real pain because 90% of the time one of their friends comes along 1m into the fight, or they're teamed with some people a teleporter away, and your damage/perk alpha is so low that you couldn't actually just do what every other profession does and kill someone before their help arrives.

I'm not talking about 30,000 health setups because those don't kill anyone often, and the people they do kill is even more off chance than higher damage setups. If you don't think that's true, go play a doctor yourself. You won't play a doctor yourself to find that out? Okay, be quiet please, then.

Here's a good quote that explains most of this thread, which was pooped on past page 1 thanks to Xootch, Gatester, and Wyoming. I think some of you need to go ingame and actually PvP before coming and trying to talk about it. Dumonde did a great effort of saving it though (You're a good man, Dumonde).

Whatever issues may appear at the bottom level are either over or under enunciated and never truly indictive of exactly what is too strong or weak because the level of play is sloppy and inefficient - thus - inconclusive on whether or not something is too strong or weak because the level of play is not consistent enough or high enough on the skill ladder to be worthy of consideration.

You cannot balance around low level play because the tools with which to measure whether or not something is too weak or too strong are not accurate enough when applied against the bottom levels of skill.

I find that low level play is not truly impacted by balance issues (unless they are also insanely out of whack at the highest level) and all of your examples fall under extreme outliers. Sure they affected low level play at some point, but if nukes were tier 1 and didn't cost gas in starcraft that would affect low level play too. But they are outliers - you cannot make cohesive arguments relying on extremes.

[Contra]

OK, I don't want this to go any further, but I will point out a few things:
-I never claimed def focus NTs are a doc's nemesis. I only claimed it's "possible" for a def focus NT to time his alpha good enough to surprise and kill a doctor.
-I never claimed agents can alpha a doctor and win a duel against them everytime. Melee swapping agents, however, are capable of doing one of the highest damage alphas in the game.

Wonderland, I'm sending you a PM

PS: all my active toons are listed in my signature, mate, for everyone to see. I was forced to change my forum name because I got banned, a few times, for various reasons

[Hassler]

Most of the time, Fxers do not kill doctors, but they can kill doctors if they get a capped aimed shot, or are in a very heavy offense setup.
Competent metaphysicists always kill doctors. Thanks Nanobot Contingent Arrest, dominates, and -dmg debuffs.
Melee adventurers have a chance to alpha low health doctors, after +dmg patch.
Competent bureaucrats slam the crap out of doctors. Thanks +dmg patch, unremovable init debuffs, and fear.
Competent enforcers slam the crap out of doctors. Enforcers that know what they're doing usually get 3 to 5 alphas against a doctor 1v1, which a doctor usually has to use at least two items/heal perks to stay alive if the alpha is strong, like Kittenf or Toxicrush's. Thanks +dmg patch. It's impossible to live against those alphas otherwise. Of course, it's not very hard to stay alive against the majority of enforcers, but I think it's only okay to talk about balance if only taking into consideration of the strongest players. That's just in duels, not even including fear.
Competent martial artists can kill doctors if they don't use almost every heal perk they have, close call, and reanimator cloak to stay alive. You also need to use complete heal to actually try to get a heal off while they have 3 billion init debuffs on you. If a doctor does live against a martial artist, they can slam the hell out of them. Thanks +dmg patch.
Shades against bow doctors depends on chance. Shades always kill pistol doctors thanks to spirit phylaktery drains allowing shades to go for ages against doctors, then draining their nano.
Soldiers can kill doctors, depends on chance, specifically from capping aimed shot. +dmg patch gave every soldier like 3000 to 5000 extra alpha damage.
Agents can potentially alpha a doctor, but it depends on chance and how fast the doctor uses a free movement.
Competent traders typically stalemate with doctors. Grand theft humidity ain't crap, it's their other nanodrains, nanodrain procs, and drain procs that hurt you.
Whether a doctor kills another doctor depends on who lands anatomic blight first.

The clearest thing here, if you have reading comprehension and don't read this as, "He's saying doctors are underpowered" (Which I'm not), is that I'm clearly saying that whether doctors kill most professions, or whether most professions kill doctors, is heavily influenced by chance. Enough to where it's not fun. Doctors are definitely more balanced after the +dmg patch, where beforehand they were a little overpowered. But balanced doesn't mean fun, and you need both to have a game people love. Of course, they need design changes like, "Change anatomic blight," and "lower the amount of their heals, while giving them more options to defend themselves with," but just because they're balanced doesn't mean there shouldn't be changes.

Free movements can affect whether you get slaughtered or not, but the biggest deal is that 90% of the time when you use a free movement stim, it still doesn't remove the stun immediately. It still takes 1-1.5s to actually have the stun removed from your NCU. Therefore, if you do not use a free movement unless the stun is 3s+ in duration (Because of cast time), you usually will never get the stun removed and will still get chainstunned. I don't know why this is, but this is the case. This is, of course, in the context where a profession can/will use more than one stun on you in a row. Of course, a few professions have enough stuns (Including brawl) where they could just stun you excessively to just "flush out" a free movement stim. A good example of this, is that melee can brawl stun you when they see a free movement to get a 20% chance to essentially win. You can guess a free movement, but considering everyone's alpha is different, and a lot of people just reorder one or two things every time against a doctor, you're really only guessing if you try to cast the free movement before the stun comes to get some more time. I would love to imagine a world where everything is so fluid that free movement stims cast themselves .9s before the first stun comes, doctors immediately heal themselves to full, malpractice never falls off at IV just because it was countered twice, and have absolutely no issue ever using their 15000 heal every 4s and then use that to say that doctors are clearly overpowered public enemy #1 superprofession, but that's not how the game is. But forum perception of things is typically way off in contrast to reality anyway, so I'm not bothered.

Contra's (Who is also Malraux, Fontane) never played Alphaheal. He's just talking out of his butt again. The funny thing is, according to him in another thread, most professions, including a nanotechnician and agent (As long as they're played by Contra) could kill a doctor, and now he's saying that's not true at all (?). Apparently he could also kill "Every doctor within 2s" on his defensive focus nanotechnician. I don't know what's with him always changing his stories.

Doctors were overpowered in 1v1 maybe like, during lost eden. After Xan, and especially after +dmg patch, they're more balanced now. But they're not really very fun considering a lot of their encounters are really heavily influenced by chance, more on the end of the enemy, especially in cases such as soldiers. Whether you live or die after +dmg patch a lot of the times involves whether the soldier caps an aimed shot. Whether you live against shades as a bow doctor depends on whether you cap aimed shots and how fast their nano drains land. It's possible for a doctor with 2400~ health to get alphad by a keeper if they actually cap their aimed shot, sneak attack, and get a brawl stun. Whether you live against enforcers is heavily affected by whether their sneak attack caps or not.

After +dmg patch, I can say doctors are a lot less fun thanks to being able to die to crap players, or the ever-unrewarding feeling of being able to kill people you shouldn't. I personally would rather play an underpowered profession and be rewarded by how well I play, not because of whether someone capped an aimed shot, what perks and proc chances landed, and what nanos were countered. "Noone can alpha doctors, they can just outheal everything" is nowhere near true in modern day. This was true during lost eden. Now everyone else has a lot more alpha power, and most people have init debuffs and stuns. It's not too complicated to just flip on a nano drain ring and use the active while the doctor is malpracticing you to cut their damage short and live, or just run away to keep alive because doctors don't have many tricks up their sleeves like some other professions.

One of the larger pains with 1v1ing with doctors outside of duels is the lack of any way to remove roots and snares, or to root and snare enemies. Root grafts are removed with one free movement stim, doctor's damage is low, and everyone can just run away and healdelta to get another alpha. It's the biggest pain around, and anyone who's played a doctor or soldier I'm sure is more than well aware of the ranged adventurer running away to regain health, soldier running away to his friends to kill you when his alpha fails before AMS runs out, or the enforcer who you know you have no chance of killing because he'll just bolt across the map before you even get close to killing him. Not even going to go into fixers' or bureaucrats' rooting and running away. Trying to play a doctor and 1v1 people in the battlestation in a real pain because 90% of the time one of their friends comes along 1m into the fight, or they're teamed with some people a teleporter away, and your damage/perk alpha is so low that you couldn't actually just do what every other profession does and kill someone before their help arrives.

I'm not talking about 30,000 health setups because those don't kill anyone often, and the people they do kill is even more off chance than higher damage setups. If you don't think that's true, go play a doctor yourself. You won't play a doctor yourself to find that out? Okay, be quiet please, then.

Here's a good quote that explains most of this thread, which was pooped on past page 1 thanks to Xootch, Gatester, and Wyoming. I think some of you need to go ingame and actually PvP before coming and trying to talk about it. Dumonde did a great effort of saving it though (You're a good man, Dumonde).

+1 that describes almost exactly how i feel about docs too

[Xootch]

If you don't think that's true, go play a doctor yourself. You won't play a doctor yourself to find that out? Okay, be quiet please, then.

done. still disagree with dumbo. asking docs to be potent killers rivaling so called 'damage profs' is plain ridiculous, no matter how much you write and cry. sorry. you want something with heals and more offense? roll an advy.

[Kazeran]

done. still disagree with dumbo. asking docs to be potent killers rivaling so called 'damage profs' is plain ridiculous, no matter how much you write and cry. sorry. you want something with heals and more offense? roll an advy.

I believe its less about being a "potent" killer and more about having a reliable way to kill someone, which without AS, doesn't really exist for a doc.

As far as heals being "over the top" thats a load of bull and everyone knows it. Heals haven't been touched since 15.5.4 which was jun of 2004. Have doctors gotten more heal eff. to make them better? Yes. Has ever single prof gotten far more defense and offense as well? You bet your sweet butt they have. So while heals have, relatively, stayed the same everyone else's defense has been boosted multiple times as well as their offensive tools. Yes I know ICH, TILC and team heals are all new but TILC is a buff and ICH is a pvm heal or a "omg" save my life heal in pvp once every 20 seconds.

[Xootch]

you dont need as pistol for as. you need as pistol for as without sacrifices.

btw gates, based upon almost 500 as in bs, craphander hit for 1681 mean damage (+- 1612 standard deviation). dont have enough data for being hit with troll pistol yet, so we'll have to wait some for that and my advy is stripped. did have 12m running most of the time though and there were some enfs, hence there were a couple of lucky 8000+ (3 to be exact). almost half of the hits were less than 1000.

[Dumonde]

you dont need as pistol for as. you need as pistol for as without sacrifices.

btw gates, based upon almost 500 as in bs, craphander hit for 1681 mean damage (+- 1612 standard deviation). dont have enough data for being hit with troll pistol yet, so we'll have to wait some for that and my advy is stripped. did have 12m running most of the time though and there were some enfs, hence there were a couple of lucky 8000+ (3 to be exact). almost half of the hits were less than 1000.

Pretty untrue. And no, I am not cyring. My gosh.

You could euqip a bow with totally no sacrifices, we did it in the past 10 years several times. But it isnt that effective tho.

done. still disagree with dumbo. asking docs to be potent killers rivaling so called 'damage profs' is plain ridiculous, no matter how much you write and cry. sorry. you want something with heals and more offense? roll an advy.

Xootch, I dont want to roll an Advy to be able to heal and kill - I can. I think I got more then 1,8k solo kills, it is possible. But its almost only due to MR and the AS pistols. No tools the profession Doctor grants. If you would take away the AS pistol, duels vs. all difficult professions would be impossible.

Why should it be ridiculous for a profession to be as competetive as all other professions ? Aion = Cleric. WoW = Priest, Druid, Shaman, Monk and many other main healing profs in almost all games can do so. Why should Anarchy Online and only the doctor be a different story ?

I believe its less about being a "potent" killer and more about having a reliable way to kill someone, which without AS, doesn't really exist for a doc.

As far as heals being "over the top" thats a load of bull and everyone knows it. Heals haven't been touched since 15.5.4 which was jun of 2004. Have doctors gotten more heal eff. to make them better? Yes. Has ever single prof gotten far more defense and offense as well? You bet your sweet butt they have. So while heals have, relatively, stayed the same everyone else's defense has been boosted multiple times as well as their offensive tools. Yes I know ICH, TILC and team heals are all new but TILC is a buff and ICH is a pvm heal or a "omg" save my life heal in pvp once every 20 seconds.

.. Which can be hindered by almost every prof. Static defense cant (or - almost not).

And yes, the fact that all other profession got tons of additional defense (like NR for example), HP and damage, we are not THE immortal healing gods as we supposed to be years ago. Thats simply nothing more then a legend anymore.

I've actually did play a 219 doc with a little better gear then yours.

I doubt that - but prove it and state your gear. Maybe ql 300+ Imps, Triple augmented AI Armor and a 25k tokenboard may impress me.

Besides that, "better" or "worse" is a completely subjective thing. Some doc use equipment X and do fine with it, some use euqipment Z and do fine too. What means "better" ? The solo kill counter results ? Duel score ?

[Contra]

Besides that, "better" or "worse" is a completely subjective thing. Some doc use equipment X and do fine with it, some use euqipment Z and do fine too. What means "better" ? The solo kill counter results ? Duel score ?

OK, maybe not "better", but more "endgame". ACDC and proper huds come to mind.
Earlyer you've stated that duel stats are meaningless. Why bring them up twice in the same post?