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Thread: Clon**** Notum Cannons

  1. #21
    I'd honestly say, take the 1.5mil as raw exports. As far as I'm aware, the Timeline reporting the 1mil exports is an old IRRK post?

    Plus after this many years of lease on RK, OT has to have upped their trade.
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    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  2. #22
    That's a fair point. The 1.0m Tons figure was from 747 years ago.

    I'll use the 1.5m tons figure then.
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  3. #23
    Using oil as an example, it's often shipped "raw" and refined in one (or a few) central locations. Consider that about 50% of a 42-gallon barrel of oil is refined into gasoline (with the other 50ish% converted to other stuff including naptha, used in cleaning solvents and residuum, sometimes used in making highways). My point is that 1.0M tons refined from 1.5M tons raw is impressive.

    If there are insufficient processing facilities on RK then the notum might be shipped raw for processing elsewhere, even though this is much less profitable. Again, using oil as an example, consider the vast oil sands in Alberta, Canada. The sand and bitumen are separated on-site and the oil is then shipped to the Gulf of Mexico for refining.

    Any of the three options you give are plausible, based on processing capacity on-planet.
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  4. #24
    These numbers are shaping up ratherly poorly ... All I need now is confirmation of cannon firing times and this project will be ready for Fun Fact Friday!
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  5. #25
    I'm confused about what seems so mysterious about the process?

    If a cargo is fired into orbit, it's going to be fired into orbit at well, orbital velocity. It might need a tiny bit of fuel for orbital stability.

    We have the technology to do this today with superconducting quenchguns if we chose to do so.

    So you just fire these thousands of containers into orbit, and every couple months a huge freighter makes a pass around the planet in the orbital track that the containers were fired into, and accelerates to a velocity just slightly higher than the containers in orbit, sucking them in one at a time and loading itself, until it is completely full or the canisters are gone.

    All in all very similar to a lunar quenchgun launcher discussed in some detail here:

    http://www.nss.org/settlement/nasa/s...lectromag.html

  6. #26
    Yep would be the info disc I was thinking of, wish I could log into the game to check the guns for you Trou. Nerf work :P
    But going by Gut feel, I'd say you're 18 seconds sounds about right. Always felt like around the 15 second mark when I've been in the area.
    Freqflyerdnt (Fix) - Codney (MP) - Fiddlybit (Crat) - Breaker117 (Enfo) - Spasticdent (NT) - Fiveof9 (Keeper) - Maleshai (Advy) - Tacitblue (Shade)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy
    clearly, it's all because arbalest is clan-only. all the omnis pvpers went clan for arbalest and all the omni pvmers went clan for the 35% xp buff so now the ratio of clan to omni is 9:1 herp derp clan favouritism herp derp devs are clan.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by cheopis View Post
    I'm confused about what seems so mysterious about the process?

    If a cargo is fired into orbit, it's going to be fired into orbit at well, orbital velocity. It might need a tiny bit of fuel for orbital stability.

    We have the technology to do this today with superconducting quenchguns if we chose to do so.

    So you just fire these thousands of containers into orbit, and every couple months a huge freighter makes a pass around the planet in the orbital track that the containers were fired into, and accelerates to a velocity just slightly higher than the containers in orbit, sucking them in one at a time and loading itself, until it is completely full or the canisters are gone.

    All in all very similar to a lunar quenchgun launcher discussed in some detail here:

    http://www.nss.org/settlement/nasa/s...lectromag.html
    The problem is the rate of fire.

    After 60 years of orbital travel, our world is covered in space debris stuck in a permanent orbit and rocket launches are not something that happen every 10-15s, not every day, nor every week nor every month.

    If 3 containers were fired into orbit of RK every 15s, there wouldn't be any space left to scoop the boxes up, it would be a permanent ring of notum containers!
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    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  8. #28
    Maybe the canisters, if that is what is being used, is stopped by some sort of net forming a depo like area.

    Or it's being shot to the next planet over or a moon, if it is fired at the rate it seems, maybe it is travelling a lot further than we think. And due to gravitational and atmospheric slow down the speed of travel is slowed to the extent that at a certain point there is enough time to collect some of the containers and then being shipped wherever. With a continuous line of freighters picking up it's payload.

    Could make some sort of sense, also Raggy remember RK is a couple of years ahead of us in tech :P
    Last edited by Freqflyerdnt; Jun 20th, 2013 at 09:13:05.
    Freqflyerdnt (Fix) - Codney (MP) - Fiddlybit (Crat) - Breaker117 (Enfo) - Spasticdent (NT) - Fiveof9 (Keeper) - Maleshai (Advy) - Tacitblue (Shade)

    Squad Commander of Ab aeterno animus liberi

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy
    clearly, it's all because arbalest is clan-only. all the omnis pvpers went clan for arbalest and all the omni pvmers went clan for the 35% xp buff so now the ratio of clan to omni is 9:1 herp derp clan favouritism herp derp devs are clan.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    The problem is the rate of fire.

    After 60 years of orbital travel, our world is covered in space debris stuck in a permanent orbit and rocket launches are not something that happen every 10-15s, not every day, nor every week nor every month.

    If 3 containers were fired into orbit of RK every 15s, there wouldn't be any space left to scoop the boxes up, it would be a permanent ring of notum containers!
    Well, if we actually had a real permanent space presence in orbit instead of the space equivalent of an old cardboard box, we'd probably keep our orbital tracks clearer. In fact there are microsatellite designs for doing exactly that. Rather simple really. Like Roombas in space.

    Do we know how often freighters collect the capsules, or how large the freighters are?

    If we assume, Very Conservatively, that a notum capsule is the size of a 20 foot container vessel, and the freighters are the size of Triple-E Maersk class ships, each freighter could haul 18000 capsules, which would, if the capsules were fired at 15 second intervals, be 3.125 days of production.

    Of course most of this data is being pulled out of a magic hat, but the numbers don't seem unreasonable to me.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by cheopis View Post
    Do we know how often freighters collect the capsules, or how large the freighters are?
    Answer: No, we don't.
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  11. #31
    We also have to consider, what size is Rubi-ka? bigger the planet, more space directly around it for junk.
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  12. #32
    Just another random thought here -

    If you've been to the cannons you'll see their barrel is about 2 feet tall by about 8 feet wide.

    This could be indicative (due to the weight involved) that a Dimension Crushing Storage Device (DCSM) may be used as the shipping container.

    Since the item doesn't indicate it's Trans-Dimensional, I imagine it's simply, well, Crushing the matter into a smaller box, which wouldn't affect the Mass of the object, just its volume.

    This would allow for vastly smaller containers to be launched into orbit, creating less clutter.
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  13. #33
    Its 18 seconds here as well

  14. #34
    Perfect. Thanks for the confirmation!
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  15. #35
    Any time.

    While I was there I came across the leader of the export facility Odis Mady.

    During our chat this came up

    Eeio: How much of that stuff is down there?
    Odis Mady: Plenty. At least in this mine, although I've heard that other mines are starting to run dry. It seems the notum rifts aren't happening as frequently as they used to and the regenreation of notum is taking longer.
    Is this a trend all over the place and a trend that continues? Sounds like a major reason for future conflicts if mines are already starting to run dry.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by crude4gone View Post
    Any time.

    While I was there I came across the leader of the export facility Odis Mady.

    During our chat this came up



    Is this a trend all over the place and a trend that continues? Sounds like a major reason for future conflicts if mines are already starting to run dry.
    The issue is that the very nature of the Rifting is a bit ambiguous.

    The fact that it hasn't stopped would lead me to believe that there isn't a shortage anywhere in the near future.

    The decrease could also explain why Borealis was abandoned for a period of time. The Mine was emptied, and then sealed to give it time to "heal". Now OT is back to collect.

    Notum Rifting is actually going to be the topic of Next Week's Fun Fact Friday, since it spring boards off the work we've done this week on this topic.

    Edit: The reason i don't see a threat to supply is that Notum Mining would be handled like Coppicing.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Trousers View Post
    The issue is that the very nature of the Rifting is a bit ambiguous.

    The fact that it hasn't stopped would lead me to believe that there isn't a shortage anywhere in the near future.

    The decrease could also explain why Borealis was abandoned for a period of time. The Mine was emptied, and then sealed to give it time to "heal". Now OT is back to collect.

    Notum Rifting is actually going to be the topic of Next Week's Fun Fact Friday, since it spring boards off the work we've done this week on this topic.

    Edit: The reason i don't see a threat to supply is that Notum Mining would be handled like Coppicing.
    That makes much sense actually. Especially as a reasoning why OT was suddenly so interested in borealis again. Has there been any official word about the bor mines being open again?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by crude4gone View Post
    Has there been any official word about the bor mines being open again?
    None that I am aware of. Perhaps one of the Omni-Mine folks could speak to that, if they exist anymore.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Trousers View Post
    Just another random thought here -

    If you've been to the cannons you'll see their barrel is about 2 feet tall by about 8 feet wide.

    This could be indicative (due to the weight involved) that a Dimension Crushing Storage Device (DCSM) may be used as the shipping container.

    Since the item doesn't indicate it's Trans-Dimensional, I imagine it's simply, well, Crushing the matter into a smaller box, which wouldn't affect the Mass of the object, just its volume.

    This would allow for vastly smaller containers to be launched into orbit, creating less clutter.
    Based on the image here http://wiki.aodb.us/wiki/File:Specia...m_cannon_2.jpg I can see what you mean about the barrel of the cannon.

    The item being sent to orbit has been calculated to be roughly 500 lb of cargo at the 1 million ton rate, 750 lbs at the 1.5 million ton rate.

    Assuming a disk shaped container, like a frisbee, 8 feet in diameter and two feet tall, a 750 lb container would have approximately the same density as Balsa wood. Now we can probably safely assume that the actual container itself will have some significant mass too, above and beyond the 750 lbs of the cargo. But I very seriously doubt that more than 20% of either mass or volume will be devoted to the container, since it's not taking it's own fuel with it.

    I don't believe there's a need for any sort of dimensional adjustments, unless we know that notum cannot possibly be compressed to a state where it is 1.2x the density of balsa wood.

    Or am I missing something? I know I'm making guesses here, but am I making faulty guesses somehow?

  20. #40
    Oh look!

    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=285449

    It mentions how much was shipped off the first freighter.

    So does this!

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/wsp/an...&table=CONTENT


    So apparently, 1 ton of Notum is 9000*500000 = 4500000000 pieces!


    Everyones math was off!
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    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

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