Meeping

[wonderland]

Nobody complains about advy with his shields, evades, cocoon, heals and high resist to root and snare.

Excuse me sir.

[Gatester]

can you enlighten me what meeping was used for other than escaping in the old days?

Getting out of PVE content and into the grid faster. Convenience traveling in otherwords, not a griefing tool.

[Xootch]

lol. no. sorry. for instance tl5 wars used to be ga fixer wars. and guess what they did when about to die? just it was impossible to drop a fixer so fast so noone meeped on sight. don't get me wrong, i don't blame you for not remembering that or not being around, but don't claim things you dont know nothing about. if you wanna talk about historical perspective, the only argument you get from there is a severely decreased fixer survivability which makes fixers meep faster. so if you want to argue to have meep nerfed or removed, i don't think that is an all to smart argument to begin with.

[Gatester]

lol. no. sorry. for instance tl5 wars used to be ga fixer wars. and guess what they did when about to die? just it was impossible to drop a fixer so fast so noone meeped on sight. don't get me wrong, i don't blame you for not remembering that or not being around, but don't claim things you dont know nothing about. if you wanna talk about historical perspective, the only argument you get from there is a severely decreased fixer survivability which makes fixers meep faster. so if you want to argue to have meep nerfed or removed, i don't think that is an all to smart argument to begin with.

You said "other than" not "the only thing". There was no argument in the statement, it was actually a true statement in which an actual scenario involving the tool occurs and a description of what category that act would fall under. How you turned this into a cause to jump on a high horse and ride it off a cliff of failed sarcasm is rather dangerous for your credibility. One would assume that you are saying that fixer meeps were never used for anything other than escaping PVP fights and that this was also developer intentions.

I would further like to point out the significant differences in damage between fixers when notum wars was introduced (along with all professions in fact) compared to present day, the difference in level 220/30/70 compared to 200, and the difference between current populations and past. If a few players couldn't actually clear out a tower site that should require a raid sized group then I certainly would not mind a few griefers with no intention of actually PVPing.

Also, could you please use the shift key when you type these things. The complete lack of capital letters bothers me.

[Xootch]

hehe. yes and no and yes.

no, the history chain of argument you still got wrong. it was wyoming who implied it wasnt used for escaping back in the day, hence my question that you answered apparently without seeing that context. but i didnt really believe you out of all people were (i do believe you are one of the few forum activists who may know the game better than me - sometimes ) to claim that meep was a mere pvm tool before a couple of griefers exploited it but hey, you walked into it

yes, fixer offense got stronger too - isnt relevant to the point tho, which was that fixers just didnt die as quickly had therefore could "risk" a fight more. imo that is the main reason why meeping has become such a hassle to some. person A need a dead virtual corpse to feel manly. person B knows that person a and friends only need to be in range for a second to alpha and therefore meeps on sight. person A goes to forums and qq.

back in the days you were smashing each other for some time. but in the end when hp got close to zero and you didnt eat a few happy hits, you meeped. i have no proof but i am sure there were tower fields that switched fraction without a single dead fixer. don't get me wrong, i do not miss shooting at smurfs for hours, just interupted by meeping, hitting clinic and returning to the field. but this argument basically said decreased survivability is bad, not that meeping is bad. that fixers now also have increased killpower is true, but does not change why and when people meep.

about the tower survivability you are right. however that is a population problem. if you'd adjust tower hp to todays dd, it would make it almost impossible to take a tl7 site with the current population. also, money to replace towers is not so much a problem anymore. i think dd may actually have increased to the same degree money value decreased hehe.

[RedWatr]

another simple solution would be to bring back the effects that dots used to have on fixers when they meeped. every profession has a dot, whether it be an item or a nano, proc, or a perk, and back in the day, when a fixer meeped with any over time dmg on him, he'd die in the grid. now ofc, if you're quick enough, you could stim yourself, or sit kit, but I imagine it would help even even out the issue a little, and since it was "fixed", it can't be that hard to "unfix" it.

*I stand firm on my opinion that meeping is not remotely as bad as people are complaining it is, I've been on both sides of the scenario, and it's no better or worse than it's ever been. it's a cool part of the game imo.

[wonderland]

*I stand firm on my opinion that meeping is not remotely as bad as people are complaining it is, I've been on both sides of the scenario, and it's no better or worse than it's ever been. it's a cool part of the game imo.

I don't really think that instant gridwarping is inherently an issue, or that bad of an issue either.

I think it's an issue only in the sense that it removes most (Not all) of the commitment or risk in the fixer (Or his team's) actions. I don't think it's an issue that fixers have an effective escape nano, or that an effective escape nano would be used at towers (I actually really don't care whatsoever with how it's used at towers, I personally have had no issue just getting them to gridwarp and replanting my crap), I just think using it should be a little more skill oriented than it currently is, or involve a little more risk or commitment. For example, I think it's really stupid when I see a fixer run up to someone in borealis (Because it's not very hard to see who's in Borealis/who will try what if you flag), attempt to alpha/maybe succeed, maybe fail, and then just immediately gridwarp. I think it's extremely lame if it's used with 2+ people alphaing and gridwarping someone, or even worse if the person gridwarping isn't even flagging.

I wouldn't really know an effective and practical solution to that, that wouldn't just crap on other parts of gameplay or just wouldn't work. and, in contrast, I'd rather have it currently stay ingame as it is now rather than have it essentially turned into something that would crap on the profession too hard or just make it bland. I think the closest to a working solution would be to remove fixer's fear immunity. But fears are broken (Legitimately by the definition of not working) in the first place, so I don't really know.

I do personally also have an issue with the, "Oh, well, then you'll just get people using engineer beacon warps to grief" argument. Pretty much for every reason Srompu said.

[RedWatr]

how about this:

if a fixer meeps while targeted in combat, you gain the points. if the fixer meeps the team, you gain the points for the entire team fixed?

[Gatester]

no, the history chain of argument you still got wrong. it was wyoming who implied it wasnt used for escaping back in the day, hence my question that you answered apparently without seeing that context. but i didnt really believe you out of all people were (i do believe you are one of the few forum activists who may know the game better than me - sometimes ) to claim that meep was a mere pvm tool before a couple of griefers exploited it but hey, you walked into it

I would claim that developers intended instant meep to be an escape tool, without any specific scenarios in mind other than the fact that back in the day dieing was actually really bad, i.e. there were rather harsh penalties for dieing, and fixers were given the option to avoid that via their toolset.

I would claim that meep was used in both PVP and PVE contexts, and was not limited something specific such as griefing tower sites and escaping before attackers were in range to fight you. This goes back to my previous claim in which players actually feared dieing and its consequences.

I would claim that the removal of most, if not all consequences for dieing other than loss of buffs and rezzing, causes fixer instant meeps to lose their necessity as a tool which preserved things such as experience and PVP scores and instead becomes a tool meant for convenience. That said, the ability to instantly meep out of a tower site when defenders show up and move on to another tower site is a form of convenience for the attackers. Because it is also an inconvenience for defenders, it can allow less persistent defenders to give up and allow a form of tactical victory over players. This only occurs when your enemy does not have the same speed of travel and becomes annoyed at the lack of PVP when chasing down tower griefers and gives up. After this you enter into issues of whether players should win tower fights without PVPing by using a toolset built around avoidance.


Those are my claims, my opinions differ of course, and I feel as long as there is no consequence there is also no excuse. Keep in mind there are many escape tools and things that get players out of combat that are accessible to all classes. My NT, as an example, could use the general perk warps while under NSII during tower fights whenever I ran into NR3 twinks that I obviously have no way of killing. Those perk warps have significantly longer cooldowns which prevented abuse and it also took a great deal of time to activate. The difference is that fixers can affect the entire team and they do so instantly, which is why people complain. It offers no realistic counters, and tools without counters or penalties while also being effective should not exist.

[solcv2]

I have to laugh at this thread. And all the pro-fixer people saying 'well just CC/Root/NSD/wtfpwn/moon the fixer. The point is, the griefers these days arent even fighting, one little bit, at all. They have minimap open, and as soon as they see an orange/blue dot enter, they meep.

Tell me, how are people supposed to CC/Root/NSD/wtfpwn/moon the fixer when he is gone before he is even in targetable(let alone attack) range!

[RedWatr]

I have to laugh at this thread. And all the pro-fixer people saying 'well just CC/Root/NSD/wtfpwn/moon the fixer. The point is, the griefers these days arent even fighting, one little bit, at all. They have minimap open, and as soon as they see an orange/blue dot enter, they meep.

Tell me, how are people supposed to CC/Root/NSD/wtfpwn/moon the fixer when he is gone before he is even in targetable(let alone attack) range!

NOTHING IS DIFFERENT!

there's just less people, and you'll notice shiz more, that's all. fixers always meeped! and they always meeped a lot! only a few wanted pvp, and everyone knows them, because they did something different.

if it came down to 4 people playing this game, 3 of them would be fixers, and the 4th would be noobas chasing them down with a keyboard in one hand and bitch list in the other.. that's all you need to know.

fixer the THE best profession in this game for a low population situation, we have to deal with it, it might change, if not, so what....replace the stupid tower, make a better fixer, ignore the attacks, l2p without towers, give up and play wow, BUT just don't start acting like some new genius discovered that Ruiness Grid Jump (and the o' so unfair teamypants partypooper version) also creates an epic old new worn out argument thread each time it's used ><

I'm not sure if all that made sense, but I understood it, so hopefully at least 2 or 3 others will.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

That's exactly correct.

[srompu]

so what....replace the stupid tower, make a better fixer, ignore the attacks

I chuckled.

[Gatester]

Who suffers when people stop showing up for towers because they don't want to deal with the griefing? For those who struggle with this question, it's the people who want to PVP. Who benefits from griefing? Not really sure, I've rarely seen griefing accomplish anything good and more often than not causes a faction to get annoyed enough to debase the other side. Does anyone enjoy griefing, or enjoy it more than actually PVPing? I certainly do not, but others may and it's not for me to say who does and does not at least.

Either way, I don't bother with AO's open PVP anymore and had enough of chasing off teams of 6 players with me and someone else for hours on end to give up on towers too, a game that is not being enjoyed is nothing more than a chore and this is what chasing griefers down feels like. I've played games with open world PVP objectives that you had to defend before and having them is very exciting but not in AO at all.

It's like there is this strong, conservative mind set regarding towers in AO that people should not enjoy the fact that they control towers and that you should suffer upon the whims of every passing player just for having them. Defending a tower site should be as much fun as taking it and owning it.

[RedWatr]

ok, let's just get rid of NW all together every org gets a tl2,3,5, and 7 tower base of equal size, and we'll just fight over contracts dropping from events,mobs camped dynas, IN PVP ZONES! etc, :P

OH but that's only half of it, the most weeks points gained by a faction over a weeks worth of BS wins gives an extra 25% advantage to all contracts!. there ya go. eat some cake.

amg! it's 2007 again, and winning matters! lol

[solcv2]

NOTHING IS DIFFERENT!

............

When you can string a more than a single sentance coherantly together I will take your arguments a lot more seriously. Telling someone to 'Roll a better char' - that made me chuckle, so thanks for that - even though its completely beside the point.

The point that I was trying to make, is not that it is a new issue, but it is becoming more and more used, and quite frankly is just getting to much 'run of the mill' for no action to be taken.

My main point though - was that a lot of people arguing that no action whouls be taken - are under the impression that we are talking about fixers meeping form fights/tower wars. Well, we aren't. We are talking about fixers running up to a hot tower, firing a few shots into it - then as soon as any defenders become visible on the map, meeping. THe fixer never sees an opponent, and the defenders never see the fixer.

So, taking this back to arguments listed here:
--Roll a new character or make yours better - irrelevant. I could be a GM, but if I never see my prey . .

--Root/Fear/NSD etc etc - again irrelevant. YOu have to see the rabit to catch it!

Those people that say there are tactics to stop it - id love to know what they are.

And, the one that made me chuckle the best - follow the fixer into the grid!!
a) theres no PVP in the grid
b) if there was, he will travel through the grid faster than you. Exit, then remeep straight away
c)if you can differentiate beteen all the blue pyramids ion the grid I congratulate you!

[RedWatr]

When you can string a more than a single sentance coherantly together I will take your arguments a lot more seriously. Telling someone to 'Roll a better char' - that made me chuckle, so thanks for that - even though its completely beside the point.

The point that I was trying to make, is not that it is a new issue, but it is becoming more and more used, and quite frankly is just getting to much 'run of the mill' for no action to be taken.

My main point though - was that a lot of people arguing that no action whouls be taken - are under the impression that we are talking about fixers meeping form fights/tower wars. Well, we aren't. We are talking about fixers running up to a hot tower, firing a few shots into it - then as soon as any defenders become visible on the map, meeping. THe fixer never sees an opponent, and the defenders never see the fixer.

So, taking this back to arguments listed here:
--Roll a new character or make yours better - irrelevant. I could be a GM, but if I never see my prey . .

--Root/Fear/NSD etc etc - again irrelevant. YOu have to see the rabit to catch it!

Those people that say there are tactics to stop it - id love to know what they are.

And, the one that made me chuckle the best - follow the fixer into the grid!!
a) theres no PVP in the grid
b) if there was, he will travel through the grid faster than you. Exit, then remeep straight away
c)if you can differentiate beteen all the blue pyramids ion the grid I congratulate you!

my apologies, I didn't read past the first line, since apparently you've been taught that an paragraph is actually a sentence...then continue to clobber the English language throughout your "well deserved", albeit hastily expressed position in a rectangular block of anger, resembling some of the best observed example of sore buttocks we've come to expect in the forums today...sigh...vented unto our innocent thread of love, flowers, and KY jelly.. I really miss the miles of rope we used to be able to hang ourselves with

anyhow, you take care now buddy.I'm about to make a cheeseburger, then TRY to figure out why my ex keeps texting me the same thing written 100 different ways, sometimes in all CAPS. wtf?! oO...girls.

[RedWatr]

I know it sounds harsh, but I do sympathize with your problem, I promise I do, don't think for a second that it's one sided lol. but it's nothing to quit or cry over.

[Lazy]

c)if you can differentiate beteen all the blue pyramids ion the grid I congratulate you!

I didn't realize reading name tags was a skill worth congratulating o.o

[Xootch]

but it is becoming more and more used,

Solcv2
Leet
Join Date: Nov 2012

sir, i suggest you wait past your first birthday before talking about how things used to be.

also may explain

I didn't realize reading name tags was a skill worth congratulating o.o