Thread: Monthly Development Update - 28th February 2014

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Emma View Post
    HOWEVER .... If the mandatory Inspect is ACTUALLY just so we can all be police for hunting down exploits why not do an inspect each time we all zone and send the stats to a GM or run them thru a test program to see if the person has used an exploit to get their gear equipped. If they have, then ban them straight away or "call" them in to explain how they got something on ...
    GMs couldn't twink themselves out of a wet paper bag.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Emma View Post
    HOWEVER .... If the mandatory Inspect is ACTUALLY just so we can all be police for hunting down exploits why not do an inspect each time we all zone and send the stats to a GM or run them thru a test program to see if the person has used an exploit to get their gear equipped.
    While a great idea I seriously doubt any program that could as often and as fast as it would need to could account for the level of twinking people undertake. I have seen written twinking notes that included no less than 5+ perk resets and over 1000 steps (each exact in order action) to get into the final gear. Serious twinkers will spend that kind of effort to figure out how the gear goes on. While a program could possibly be developed to run on a specific suspect I don't think it would be fast to execute.

    But love the out of the box thinking that maybe this could be automated a bit. I don't like the "let the players be the cops" part of this. I am not paid to find the exploiters.
    Lheann
    President of When I Grow Up

    Lhisa - MA - RK1
    MaxKillz - Enf - RK1
    Namaru - Enf - RK1

    "If you find yourself loosing a fight, your tatics suck."

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Lheann View Post
    While a great idea I seriously doubt any program that could as often and as fast as it would need to could account for the level of twinking people undertake. I have seen written twinking notes that included no less than 5+ perk resets and over 1000 steps (each exact in order action) to get into the final gear. Serious twinkers will spend that kind of effort to figure out how the gear goes on. While a program could possibly be developed to run on a specific suspect I don't think it would be fast to execute.

    But love the out of the box thinking that maybe this could be automated a bit. I don't like the "let the players be the cops" part of this. I am not paid to find the exploiters.
    This, AO is full of these kind of edge cases. And even items that were legitimately available at one point...

    But really, the thing that makes AO so great is how you can abuse and take characters to point no one can really even consider realistic...

    Only things are to check if items equiped are or were available at level current too is and if they were was it a bug or legit.

    Few items that come to mind are the APF belt and doctors special helmet... On other hand there is things like PBP and a few bracers from SL that are legit but don't drop anymore... I doubt the devs have full knowledge of all of this either...
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
    Ekaslave 220/low Female Solitus Trader, FLAT(TM) pricing TS, almost all can do!
    Ekaros almost there/almost there too Male Solitus Martial-Artist.
    Ekadv gimp/gimp Female Opifex Adventurer

  4. #224
    Am I the only one who don't find the changes game breaking?

    I'm a casual player with no real interest in PvP. I look at the notes and go "hmm, ok. Nice, they are actually doing something".

    Edit: I do however like the disable inspect option due to the elitism in MMO's. If I can hide my gimpy toons to avoid being kicked, that's great.
    [Blahm] [Solitus] [Fixer]

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Xootch View Post
    i would seriously advise you to pvp a bit before you post. lots of ifs there. its not about that knowing your opponents gear will enable you to beat them. it will enable people to pick duels, which is bad. you should not know how your opponent is setup. you should not be able to plan so specifically. you should not be able to judge so specifically. the thing that mastablasta is trying to lie away is the point that people will only fight opponents they know they can beat for sure. there will be a lot "oh my gawd you got alphas on" "oh gawd you have 2 css piece more" and so on. as granpa pointed out, you don't have to speculate on that one, you don't have to agree with mastatrollas opinion or not, you just have to to look around a bit.

    and if you don't know how ao pvp works, you really really should not post on it. if you don't like this kind of pvp, ao is NOT the game for you. it does not require fixing. this has been what kept ao interesting since launch, and its not the reason why people leave. how i know that? because i've seen litterally hundreds of people leave. none of them wanted open cards pvp, quite the opposite.

    which is, if you think about it, a good analogy. how many card games do you know that include playing with open cards? they must all be broken.

    as for my question, you have not answered it. where are all the players coming from that you say will join the game?

    @messblasta: everything in that argument has been said, and said again and again. you turn and lie and ignore and pretend this and that. dont care. i will not run in circles with you, just because you pretend to be the only one who matters. have a nice day.
    I'm not lying about anything. Just saying that your main point of this change being bad is revolving around duels is silly and not relevant to anything. And in reality your example, going back to how you want to trick a noob into a duel and kill him with your superior gear, which I again cannot really be bothered with explaining the ethical issues with. Hostile behaviour is hostile behaviour. If you like that, hey, go ahead enjoy it. Just don't be sad when hostile behaviour is frowned upon.

    Moving on, then yes, I do have several games with cards in my collection that involves information on what others have in their hand: For example Libertalia is a game of cards and strategy. Every player is dealt the exact same hand at the start of every round and the point of the game is to play yours better than the other players. And it's an extremely excellent game. Cosmic Encounter is a game where any number of cards and effects allow you to see your opponent's hand and in a hundred cases gain unfair advantages, break other rules, insta win, instalose and so on and so forth. Yet, it's one of the best games ever designed and one of the most fun to play. The thing going for them is that it's not about secret and subterfuge and random dicerolls of chance but about prediction, action and reaction.

    You are just resisting change for the sake of being conservative. I don't pretend to have an opinion that matters to the developers at all, I've been active in the community for so many years that I know exactly how little is being listened to people. So, I think you're the one who needs to get off the high horse and relax, because you're presenting a very inflated ego on this matter.
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Mar 3rd, 2014 at 10:57:16.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    GMs couldn't twink themselves out of a wet paper bag.
    Hahaha!!! the pure truth!, they even have no clue about PvP, even worse they depend on opinons of very few RPers to form their pvp policy.
    I once discussed that with Means, back then at least where 2 devs that did some limited pvp. They arent anymore on FC.
    I will just take my money somewhere else if those changes come in to affect.
    Look at the Hat!

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    You are just resisting change for the sake of being conservative.
    That would be true if said changes brought anything good, but anyone who plays the game actively can see at first glance that they're so catastrophically bad in theory they can't be made good in practice either.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Literary View Post
    Nerfing inspect will cost them a paying customer. I know how gimp my toons are, I don't need to hear it from others.
    My feelings also. I get lucky in pvp once in a while but feeling embarrassed isn’t going to want me to play at all.

  9. #229
    You people worry far too much about inconsequential things :| wow.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  10. #230
    They're consequential for us who actually play the game, I don't expect you to understand.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    They're consequential for us who actually play the game, I don't expect you to understand.
    Really? Worrying about gear and what others might think of what you're wearing is that consequential? I would just play the game, like I've always done. Just a matter of stopping all the /care, because all it does is turn you crazy. Be happy we're seeing any development.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    I'm not lying about anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    going back to how you want to trick a noob into a duel and kill him with your superior gear, r.
    if you left a little more room in between the two it might have slipped. that statement is a blunt lie. and you can't even claim its not intentional because i explained it several times for you now. so disregarding of your opinion, your argumentation style is to lie. there's no denying that. its also insulting, but well, its just not like i care what you say. over pages of this thread you have proven that you are beyond ignorant of other peoples opinion. well done! what a reputation for a professional!
    Last edited by Xootch; Mar 3rd, 2014 at 14:27:09.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Xootch View Post
    if you left a little more room in between the two it might have slipped. that statement is a blunt lie. and you can't even claim its not intentional because i explained it several times for you now. so disregarding of your opinion, your argumentation style is to lie. there's no denying that. its also insulting, but well, its just not like i care what you say. over pages of this thread you have proven even to the last person in this forum that you are ignorant of other peoples opinion. well done! what a reputation for a professional!
    No, you haven't explained I asked for clarification and you said "i'm not going to". So, that is the end of that. Your example makes it a negative that the noob asked for duel can inspect you beforehand and your post calls both things "BS". Or was that not your intention? Are you OK with having inspect enabled, but not with friendly NCU contents?

    Also what's the significance to being ignorant of people's opinion? I would say that's a very common thing to be ignorant about, because it's generally not something you know of anyone except if they constantly inform about it or you are close enough to know them. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with that random tidbit.
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Mar 3rd, 2014 at 14:31:05.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  14. #234
    Where are my butt sticks?!
    Darkempire 220/30/70 Agent
    {edited by Anarrina: see me if you have questions}
    When specifically asked for positive words, responding with a personal attack is incredibly rude and inappropriate. Please do not repeat such behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by nums214 View Post
    If my wife never got preggo omni wouldn't have lost their fields. 2009 is pretty much when I quit.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    You people worry far too much about inconsequential things :| wow.
    Pretty much this.

    I've seen people in inf missions still sporting ql50-100 imps and carb armor and they have not bothered to disable inspect. Everybody else in the team just shrugged and carried on.

    Nobody kicked them from the inf mission. Later on I've seen this people in apf raids (raid bots). Nobody kicked them from those raids either.

    Would I kicked them? Yes, I would probably have done that if:
    - it was a 1 team pande raid or
    - 1 team APF raid or
    - small team farming stuff for our use in general

    Asshats never needed the inspect function to diss people. Run a DD parser and start picking on people.
    Last edited by Javafan; Mar 3rd, 2014 at 14:51:51.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Somewhere, an engi logged in, and several soldiers just magically fell over dead.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Be happy we're seeing any development.
    Whats this? Am I paying for this game or am I just a beggar? I do expect developments, new content, better graphics and so on since I pay for it every month, as I exepct my voice to be heard.

    Until you mature you wont ever be part of FC or any company that needs to be in close contact with its customers (as part of the customer relations team), since you dont have a clue how a bussiness is run. Defending something that no customer wants, goes agaisnt good bussiness. A successful bussiness offers stuff the customers want, otherwise theyll go broke. Now mature a little and stop savoring others people nuts blindly, it wont help you, your career or anything.

    Now going back to teh undesired changes, I feel that FC is rewarding the sploiters going legit on them. I ask myself if those sploiters are very close to some people on FC.
    Anyways disabling inspect and the ability to see the oponent ncu should NEVER be implemented on game.

    Other than that, some changes I dont like, but can live with them.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Really? Worrying about gear and what others might think of what you're wearing is that consequential? I would just play the game, like I've always done. Just a matter of stopping all the /care, because all it does is turn you crazy. Be happy we're seeing any development.
    You mean besides the fact that people who put a lot of effort into twinking their chars will be either copied or petitioned for sploiting and banned because GMs in this game don't know any better ?

    Like I said, didn't expect you to understand as you don't even play this game

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    You mean besides the fact that people who put a lot of effort into twinking their chars will be either copied or petitioned for sploiting and banned because GMs in this game don't know any better ?

    Like I said, didn't expect you to understand as you don't even play this game
    Somehow I don't think that you'll see that problem happen all that much more than it already does :| the end result might be on display, but the process isn't, and the point that's been proven with AO over the years is that while it's perfectly possible to do the crazy twinking, then the vast majority of players are not going to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angryganker View Post
    Whats this? Am I paying for this game or am I just a beggar? I do expect developments, new content, better graphics and so on since I pay for it every month, as I exepct my voice to be heard.

    Until you mature you wont ever be part of FC or any company that needs to be in close contact with its customers (as part of the customer relations team), since you dont have a clue how a bussiness is run. Defending something that no customer wants, goes agaisnt good bussiness. A successful bussiness offers stuff the customers want, otherwise theyll go broke. Now mature a little and stop savoring others people nuts blindly, it wont help you, your career or anything.

    Now going back to teh undesired changes, I feel that FC is rewarding the sploiters going legit on them. I ask myself if those sploiters are very close to some people on FC.
    Anyways disabling inspect and the ability to see the oponent ncu should NEVER be implemented on game.

    Other than that, some changes I dont like, but can live with them.
    You must be new here. I've been around for nearly 13 years and the development has been more glacial when the team was 10 times the current size than it is now, with less daring decisions being made.

    Your point about maturity is silly, you would possibly also be surprised to know that I work in a position where I have direct communication with customers. But we're B2B, which means generally you don't have the mess of people you see on here spamming you with nonsense. I know perfectly well how businesses are run, but obviously you don't. You say you call this something no customer wants, but then, there are people who do want it and some don't care, meaning you're at a status quo. Sometimes you also need to make unpopular decisions in order to move forward. "The customer is always right" is probably the worst possible way to run a business.

    You should probably also grow up a little and consider the economic realities of the choice being put on display instead of cry about familiarity with the developers, because, really.
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Mar 3rd, 2014 at 15:08:06.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    You people worry far too much about inconsequential things :| wow.
    The dictionary defines inconsequential as being 'of little or no importance; insignificant; trivial', however... It also defines consequence as being 'the conclusion reached by a line of reasoning; inference', but inference is defined as 'the process of arriving at some conclusion that, though it is not logically derivable from the assumed premises, possesses some degree of probability relative to the premises'...
    Now you may be a little lost here, but my point is that only one person can make conclusions, and that is the individual making the conclusion, by definition, the individual is just that, individual, just because YOU don't think it is of any consequence, doesn't mean that it isn't of GREAT consequence to someone else.
    A new light shines upon Rubi-Ka,A new channel is opened in the grid feed,
    A new Team dedicated to the distribution of knowledge is formed.
    >>> AO-Universe <<<
    For the People, By the People.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebite View Post
    The dictionary defines inconsequential as being 'of little or no importance; insignificant; trivial', however... It also defines consequence as being 'the conclusion reached by a line of reasoning; inference', but inference is defined as 'the process of arriving at some conclusion that, though it is not logically derivable from the assumed premises, possesses some degree of probability relative to the premises'...
    Now you may be a little lost here, but my point is that only one person can make conclusions, and that is the individual making the conclusion, by definition, the individual is just that, individual, just because YOU don't think it is of any consequence, doesn't mean that it isn't of GREAT consequence to someone else.
    Aren't we all old enough to have learned that it's not important what color pants we wear?
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

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