Thread: Monthly Development Update - 28th February 2014

  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    GA in SL just practically flips the bird at AOs lore. :P
    I agree 100% and from a story basis im against it, but i have a fixer alt....if they are going to ignore the lore and allow its use then we might as well get the most out of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    You can just write something like "Uber fixer discovers how to hack into communication signals running through the shadowlands to Rubi-Ka, enabling him to wear his grid-armor". Fixed!
    You joke Masta but there might be a way...after all fixers can access the Fgrid from a transport statue and that nano was ingame (if not actually working) from the beginning of Shadowlands. Also there is the Tap Notum Vein nanoline....If the team were willing to give GA a different texture in SL and write a bit of lore about adapting GA to use Notum Veins (i.e. the Fixers essence remains in the Notum vein and a 'Shadowself' exists in the real world) then at the very least it might not be such a total destruction of the Lore
    Last edited by Neista; Mar 4th, 2014 at 13:35:40.
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  2. #302
    I'm waiting until more detailed information about exactly what changes are coming with 18.7 patch before getting all up in FC's grill about the minutae, but that said I am assuming that the brief bullet point list in Nusquam's post is just a summary of the main points and that there's more to come.

    Keepers wanted a tractor beam, now they have it. Shade re-sneaking must have some kind of proviso attached to it, also what about Agents in that regard? Deflect as the new Parry has some interesting potential. Is it just a re-name and therefore in order to enable it you need to be wielding a weapon with Parry/Deflect on? I assume the full NCU visibility means everything that appears in your NCU can be seen by others, including LE procs, cooldown/blocker nanos and perks that place something in there?

    About mandatory Inspect: well to be honest I absolutely hated the idea when it was first introduced. Loathed it. Made a big fuss about it etc. Privacy and gear elitism was my biggest concern. Since then and in particular since playing other MMOs in which the ability to look at someone's gear is automatic and doesn't even spam them with a notification, I've slowly come to certain conclusions that mean I'm not against it any more in principle, and although the AO player culture is different having come from a place where inspect didn't exist, and then when it did come in remained optional, it won't necessarily lead to the gutting of teaming.

    Why do I think this? Some examples: AO has always had 'that crat in medsuit/XP pistols in inf mission' thing. Yes it was actually a thing (might still be, haven't Inf Mish'd in years). Before /inspect existed you could see that the example crat was poorly geared but you didn't give a crap because you invited them for the xp not for the dd. Zerg raids were always all about numbers and dd parsers have been run at every one since they first began. It wasn't about your gear it was about how you were performing overall. Remember the giant stink made about how social tab would wreck PvP because you could no longer tell what your opponent was equipped with? My experience in other games has mostly been that when doing general team based activities, almost no one gives a flying monkey crap about what you have on unless you are performing badly. In the rare cases when general activities like a dungeon run or an xp farm that really don't need any kind of progression-pushing limitations placed (like clearing a newly-released cutting-edge raid in a raiding MMO) are being led by someone with a stick up their rear, I'm quite glad to discover early on that they'd kick someone for having 2 fewer stat points than the Best In Slot item in one gear spot. Then I can leave myself and not waste my time as some dictator's plaything.

    By the same token when I form and lead teams/raids/whatever in other games, I ask the players about their experience with their role/the content, not what they have equipped. If they then perform unexpectedly - such as doing the right moves but their dps/whatever is awful, or visibly derping it up yet pull off excellent results, then I'll Inspect their gear loadout to see if there might be clues within. I've yet to kick anyone solely for gear, only for terrible performance/attitude. Hell, half the time I /inspect in a game is because I see they have something equipped that I don't recognise and want to know wtf it is, and then ask them where it came from

    Ultimately I don't care so much any more what people see. If my twink-in-progress is running around in half-empty imps and a pair of poly pillows and someone /inspects, I'm going to ignore whatever they have to say about it. Especially duel requests If someone has taken the trouble to inspect my setup, run some numbers and then written me a tell detailing all about how I'm doing it wrong, I can only feel sorry for their lack of anything better to do and I can guarantee I won't pay any attention to it. Unless it's particularly funny, in which case it might make my orgbot logon message. If I want specific gear advice I will ask someone, not accept unsolicited opinion.

    Seriously though if it's going to be free and easy /inspect on everyone, please please please remove the notification spam that will result. Also, can Social Tab weapons now stop disabling you from combat if someone/something attacks you?

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  3. #303
    Some people state that every game that has inspect is proofing that opening it up is wrong.
    Well, at least my experience is different.

    Of course those other games have derps that only look after gear score and insult people solely about their equip. But as I see it they are a minority. Sometimes a very vocal one, but still a minority.

    Also their story seems to be always the same. They call LFM in open channels and successfully get their group that way about 4 to 5 times or so. After that you can see them doing LFM all day apparently no longer able to get enough people into grouping with them. I think this tells a lot about self-regulation.
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  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Misat0 View Post
    Some people state that every game that has inspect is proofing that opening it up is wrong.
    Well, at least my experience is different.

    Of course those other games have derps that only look after gear score and insult people solely about their equip. But as I see it they are a minority. Sometimes a very vocal one, but still a minority.

    Also their story seems to be always the same. They call LFM in open channels and successfully get their group that way about 4 to 5 times or so. After that you can see them doing LFM all day apparently no longer able to get enough people into grouping with them. I think this tells a lot about self-regulation.
    So confused by that last statement in regards to inspect, however I can sympathize with the inspect function being opened up to everyone and not being able to deny it. I've met plenty of people in my time playing AO who don't want to group with someone just because they have some gear that isn't necessarily favorable. One example is Tier armor: people don't use it as much, however I still love to use it as I can get it on early, its easy to farm T1 with high level toons, and it levels with me all the way with me and is viable up until around 160ish(I still use it until I can get on 300 Ofab). Its also nice to have when I don't have oodles and spoodles of noodles worth of credits to dump onto AI armor or Ofab armor throughout the leveling process.

    Either way, I would rather have my skill as a player determine whether or not people want me in a team, not how many credits I have.
    Last edited by Triadninja; Mar 4th, 2014 at 15:19:09.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    GA in SL just practically flips the bird at AOs lore. :P
    Am I missing something? Is it not possible to multi-spatial phase in Shadowlands? If the Shadowweb Spinner can create spacial displacement and harness the power of the Shadowlands and then be used on Rubi-Ka, why couldn't the Grid Armor or multi-spatial phasing between Shadowlands and the Grid be achieved? The Fixer can also tap into notum veins in Shadowlands. I'm genuinely curious why this is a flip at the AO lore?

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Gargle View Post
    Am I missing something? Is it not possible to multi-spatial phase in Shadowlands? If the Shadowweb Spinner can create spacial displacement and harness the power of the Shadowlands and then be used on Rubi-Ka, why couldn't the Grid Armor or multi-spatial phasing between Shadowlands and the Grid be achieved? The Fixer can also tap into notum veins in Shadowlands. I'm genuinely curious why this is a flip at the AO lore?
    Because the grid isn't present in SL and GA puts you in a semi-space between converted into the grid and present in reality.
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  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Because the grid isn't present in SL and GA puts you in a semi-space between converted into the grid and present in reality.
    Yes, but that doesn't stop a Fixer from multi-spacial phasing between the Grid and Shadowlands. Shadowlands was not present when they defined the real world. As an analogy Arcadia can be a real world and so can Stark, it's a matter of perspective. There is nothing in the present AO lore that I can see that prevents Fixers from actually multi-spacial phasing between SL and the Grid, just because there are no exits for now.

    EDIT: Further to that technology harnessed from Shadowlands such as the Shadowweb Spinner "magically" works in Rubi-Ka even though it's powered by SL.
    Last edited by Gargle; Mar 4th, 2014 at 16:22:58.

  8. #308
    Maybe fixer grid exits in sl are coming it would give them something special.

  9. #309
    5 Day´s and 312 post´s later
    No feedback and no conversation with Development !!!

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  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Gargle View Post
    Yes, but that doesn't stop a Fixer from multi-spacial phasing between the Grid and Shadowlands. Shadowlands was not present when they defined the real world. As an analogy Arcadia can be a real world and so can Stark, it's a matter of perspective. There is nothing in the present AO lore that I can see that prevents Fixers from actually multi-spacial phasing between SL and the Grid, just because there are no exits for now.

    EDIT: Further to that technology harnessed from Shadowlands such as the Shadowweb Spinner "magically" works in Rubi-Ka even though it's powered by SL.
    Ingame:

    This device is used by fixers to transfer their physical body (but not equipment) almost completely into the Grid, yet retain a presence in the real world. The link between the Grid and reality is maintained by a Multi-Spatial Phasing Beacon. What is left of the fixer in the real world is a semi-solid web of energy that the fixer controls as easily as they would their own body. When in this state, the only way the fixer can be damaged is if the Multi-Spatial Phasing Beacon is itself damaged, which hovers in the center of the energy web. A symbiotic link is maintained between the fixer and the Beacon while this device is worn - if the Beacon is destroyed, the fixer will die. However, given the small size of the Beacon, the majority of attacks tend to be avoided.
    The grid is something that is exclusive to RK, there is no grid in SL, therefore the only feasible way GA would make any sense would be if the Beacon was also capable of creating a permanent rift through SL into the RK subspace. You could then argue that if such tech was possible to use on the move, why the need for Jobe to maintain a permanent portal would exist as everyone would have easy and simple access to the Shadowlands at any moment in time.

    (Please ignore the SL recall beacon, it puts huge holes in everything I just said)
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  11. #311
    How is this an update? IN all, i couldnt find anything usefull. Less privacy, nerfing professions, forcing people to retwink.
    What a blast this will be.
    Letting my account running out one more time, meanwhile i think ill do more pvm from now on.
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  12. #312
    I hope they make it really easy to cap deflection at 15% so that keepers can go another 10 years with a useless line of buffs
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  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Triadninja View Post
    I can sympathize with the inspect function being opened up to everyone and not being able to deny it. I've met plenty of people in my time playing AO who don't want to group with someone just because they have some gear that isn't necessarily favorable. One example is Tier armor: people don't use it as much, however I still love to use it as I can get it on early, its easy to farm T1 with high level toons, and it levels with me all the way with me and is viable up until around 160ish(I still use it until I can get on 300 Ofab). Its also nice to have when I don't have oodles and spoodles of noodles worth of credits to dump onto AI armor or Ofab armor throughout the leveling process.

    Either way, I would rather have my skill as a player determine whether or not people want me in a team, not how many credits I have.
    I think what people miss about the whole omg inspect will be open issue is that the so-called 'elitist jerks' that only want to team with people in best-in-slot gear are not pulling random folks they don't know into their teams anyway. So whether or not you have best in slot (whatever that is, in AO) or not.. those people are probably multi-logging content or just playing with their existing inner circle.

    The majority of people will utilize inspect (PvM wise) to do one of 2 things:

    - Educational: Check out what other people of their profession are wearing to get ideas for their own setup

    - Potential assessment: Let's be realistic here. In AO you should not be in ql 100 imps running inferno missions. You shouldn't have on a totw weapon in inferno missions and you also shouldn't still be wearing the jobe bracer in inferno missions (I've seen all of these scenarios an uncountable number of times). While it isn't all about gear, a person's gear does tell you about how much pride they have in their own character's performance and that does translate to how well they'll perform in a team. It isn't always about 'omg he doesn't have best in slot' but moreso being able to look at 3 tabs and do a general review to determine if its someone that looks like they at least 'tried' to put on level appropriate gear or didn't. The people on these forums complaining about open inspect, I suspect, aren't the slackers.. they're probably average to slightly above average geared. In other words, not the people that the average player is trying to weed out.
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  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Ingame:
    The grid is something that is exclusive to RK, there is no grid in SL, therefore the only feasible way GA would make any sense would be if the Beacon was also capable of creating a permanent rift through SL into the RK subspace. You could then argue that if such tech was possible to use on the move, why the need for Jobe to maintain a permanent portal would exist as everyone would have easy and simple access to the Shadowlands at any moment in time.

    (Please ignore the SL recall beacon, it puts huge holes in everything I just said)
    Raggy, I have complete faith in your knowledge in the AO lore and disregarding the whole SL recall beacon it still doesn't really hold up.

    Just because JOBEs meta-physicist only recently discovered the technology for us to move between the material world (Rubi-Ka, Earth, etc) and the metaphysical world the Shadowlands, doesn't mean that they don't have the same characteristics enabling us to harness the same technologies in similar ways. This is clearly demonstrated by the Shadowweb Spinner that has similar properties such as spacial displacement, as the Grid armour does and I quote, "Although it harnesses the power of the Shadowlands to create the Shadowweb, the Shadowweb Spinner is fully operational on Rubi-Ka."

    You forget that before the Xan went all power hungry and mad to rule time, space, and everything and caused the cataclysm the material and the metaphysical world were all one. The only reason that Shadowlands came to existence was that a part of a planet in the material world got pushed into the metaphysical realm.

    Because the two worlds were one before the cataclysm they have the same characteristics in many regards. For instance the Grid armor does multi-spacial or spacial displacement in the material world but so does the Shadowweb Spinner in the metaphysical world.

    As for entering the grid, both technologies exist in both the material and the metaphysical world. If you get digitized (a more primitive technology) or if you tap a notum vein (a more advanced technology) you are still able to travel.

    I don't see why the JOBE team couldn't have discovered or created an interface between the material world and the metaphysical world just like they did with creating a portal between the two realms?

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Gargle View Post
    -snip-
    I assume because the physics of the Shadowlands do not conform to that of RK. There is no flight, gravity doesn't play by the same rules as everything else, entropy as a universal force seems both accelerated but on hold too (The Brink and the fact it actually hasn't moved). The ways and means of transferring a person into digital form and moving them around in the same manner as Whompahs and the Grid, do not apparently exist in SL.

    The only forms of teleportation that are readily available in SL are the Ergo Portals and the In-garden transport system, which are assumed to function in the same manner as MP teleports. These don't seem to follow in the footsteps of digitisation, more following the method of simple matter transfer instead of a conversion of matter type.
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  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Brampfine View Post
    5 Day´s and 312 post´s later
    No feedback and no conversation with Development !!!

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    Huh?

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by VAUGHN2006 View Post
    Huh?
    He's saying Nusquam made the initial post 5 days ago and neither he or anyone else from FC has addressed the Tsunami-grade ****storm that his post caused...
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  18. #318
    meanwhile devs in funcom headquarters reading our posts:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUdbPqAx-rk

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    - Potential assessment: Let's be realistic here. In AO you should not be in ql 100 imps running inferno missions. You shouldn't have on a totw weapon in inferno missions and you also shouldn't still be wearing the jobe bracer in inferno missions (I've seen all of these scenarios an uncountable number of times). While it isn't all about gear, a person's gear does tell you about how much pride they have in their own character's performance and that does translate to how well they'll perform in a team. It isn't always about 'omg he doesn't have best in slot' but moreso being able to look at 3 tabs and do a general review to determine if its someone that looks like they at least 'tried' to put on level appropriate gear or didn't.
    I don't think anyone needs inspect to spot the slacker - after he does no damage on the first mob or uses lousy heals/debuffs etc., you already know!

    But for every guy in a medsuit who gets justifiably kicked from his Inf team, there will be 10 scenarios like this:

    "Kick the guy in OFAB and get someone in CC - it'll save us 5 minutes!"

    That will happen, take it to the bank!

    It's not enough that LFT is miserable, even at 220 and even at prime time.
    It's not enough that many professions have a hard time finding teams as it is.
    Noooo, we need to add another layer of discrimination for good measure!

    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    The people on these forums complaining about open inspect, I suspect, aren't the slackers.. they're probably average to slightly above average geared. In other words, not the people that the average player is trying to weed out.
    Agreed, this is not about me and my toons, it is about the community.
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  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    I assume because the physics of the Shadowlands do not conform to that of RK. There is no flight, gravity doesn't play by the same rules as everything else, entropy as a universal force seems both accelerated but on hold too (The Brink and the fact it actually hasn't moved). The ways and means of transferring a person into digital form and moving them around in the same manner as Whompahs and the Grid, do not apparently exist in SL.

    The only forms of teleportation that are readily available in SL are the Ergo Portals and the In-garden transport system, which are assumed to function in the same manner as MP teleports. These don't seem to follow in the footsteps of digitisation, more following the method of simple matter transfer instead of a conversion of matter type.
    OK let's separate the issues of the Grid and Grid armour. The Grid armour is definitely lore friendly, as per the initial argument. The spacial displacement exists in both worlds, and the fact that the Shadoweb Spinner spatial displacement can cross over to Rubi-Ka with any issues so should the Grid armours multi-spacial displacement be able to cross over to the Shadowlands without issues.

    As for the Grid itself. First of all you enter the JOBE platform through a Whompah. That in itself makes things rather confusing. Second, it's not entirely correct that there are only Ergo Portals and and in-garden transport system. You can tap notum veins, in fact fixers can tap notum veins and travel in SL.

    As I see it and this is very speculative. The primitive form we have in the material world of digitizing information or rather encoding it and then decoding it and the end point to restore the fixer is not only primitive but energy consuming. The Xan and their remaining technology in the Shadowlands that they used to manipulate the source itself prior to the cataclysm would more than likely allow for movement of energy without any kind of primitive digitization and encoding/decoding (speculative).

    Don't forget that the technology in the Shadowlands existed much before the puny primitive technology we have today on Rubi-Ka. In fact the technology that remained or was left behind in the Shadowlands is what the whole thing is about. Vanya has been painfully manipulating our dear Dr Zubov for tens of thousands of years to get a hold of it and get to manipulate the source again. This also brings questions like how did the Omega's get to the Shadowlands... but I digress.

    So I don't see why JOBE theoretically couldn't research a way (as they did with the portals and whompa to the Shadowlands) to create an interface that connects together the Grid travel (digital, material world) with the Shadowlands notum taping travel (metaphysical world).

    This way in the end we could all enjoy fast travel between the material and metaphysical worlds, and I for one welcome SFGrid (Shadowland Fixer Grid).

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