Thread: Monthly Development Update - 28th February 2014

  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post

    "Kick the guy in OFAB and get someone in CC - it'll save us 5 minutes!"

    That will happen, take it to the bank!
    Probably not very often.. I've never been in a inf mission where someone got kicked for being undergeared. I have however been in way to many inf missions where random people are afk/follow for 2/3 of the time and are still kept in team cause it's such a hassle to find reps..


  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Gargle View Post
    -snippity snip-
    JOBE is actually still on RK, it's a floating city funded by OT albeit separate from the Hypercorp so the Whompahs still work there.

    As for the SWS working on RK but not vice-versa issue. I believe it has to do with way the two dimensions overlap. The Shadowlands is essentially a blanket over RK, which explains why when you fall off of the world you land on RK, as the name suggests, it is a Shadow of RK.

    The JOBE portal works in the same way as a road following a highway, you could be under the highway for as long as you want, but you won't be able to get up there until you reach a junction. The portal is basically a tear in the dimension that allows for easy passage, because it is where the two meet. Why do you think all the JOBE portals are in high or very low places with structures built around them to accommodate the height?

    Because of these very specific entry points, a Fixer cannot walk around with a beacon that creates it's own access into the sub-space of RK willingly.


    As for the Notum veins, I cannot comment.
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  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    JOBE is actually still on RK, it's a floating city funded by OT albeit separate from the Hypercorp so the Whompahs still work there.

    As for the SWS working on RK but not vice-versa issue. I believe it has to do with way the two dimensions overlap. The Shadowlands is essentially a blanket over RK, which explains why when you fall off of the world you land on RK, as the name suggests, it is a Shadow of RK.

    The JOBE portal works in the same way as a road following a highway, you could be under the highway for as long as you want, but you won't be able to get up there until you reach a junction. The portal is basically a tear in the dimension that allows for easy passage, because it is where the two meet. Why do you think all the JOBE portals are in high or very low places with structures built around them to accommodate the height?

    Because of these very specific entry points, a Fixer cannot walk around with a beacon that creates it's own access into the sub-space of RK willingly.


    As for the Notum veins, I cannot comment.
    I'm aware that the JOBE platform is on RK, or above it. Obviously you walk through the portals after bribing the portal technician if you don't have the buff in the NCU. When I wrote that it was "confusing", it was in reference to the fact that a nano-mage can not technical stray too far from the surface of Rubi-Ka and survive. So I was thinking, how did they solve that seeing as many MPs are nano-mages? I was typing one thing and thinking of another (and trying to finish my 24/24s (tanking)) while replying on the second monitor, and for that I apologise.

    As for the SWS and two dimensions, I'm sorry but way to thin for my taste, but it's just my opinion nothing else. I agree that the Shadowlands is a Shadow of RK, it has been stated many times, and in many forms. Even the official website calls it a "wraith" of RK i.e., ghost, shadow etc, hence Shadowlands.

    As for the the analogy of the JOBE portal being a highway and the intersection, well you can argue a myriad of options there. It doesn't have to be a highway with an intersection. There are other more complex geometries that could as easily explain the opening of the portal and the positioning of it.

    You're trying to fill in blanks to justify something and I appreciate that, we are all doing it, but it's still doesn't explain why the digital information an encoded fixer couldn't be sent through the portal in his current form and then be decoded into energy and matter in the metaphysical realm. No one is talking about the fixer creating his/her own sub-space access here.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    JOBE is actually still on RK.
    http://www.halorn.com/map/map.html is fun.

    Shows Jobe still off the coast past Rome and The Reck.

  5. #325
    At this point i am resigned to the fact that weather its wanted, justified or desirable or not, we ARE getting the open inspect feature forced on us.
    Its pretty typical FC reaction when somethig unpopular is announced, rather than discuss things with the community, the issue is ignored untill it goes live and we are left to deal with it.
    So the lack of response on this issue is pretty much all the indication needed that this is happening no matter what.

    The knee jerk reaction of "I cant figure it out so it must be sploited" is and will continue to be prevelant in any competative online game, opening up inspect will only increase this problem.
    With this in mind, i do have what i think is a legitimate question about it.

    If open inspect is for the players to "police the sploiters" who exactly renders final judgement on this?
    Keeping in mind that arks and GM are simply glorified players with a few extra powers to (ab)use, they can by no means use this as a benchmark for the GM/ARK's twinking abbilities.
    So will it be our busy dev team taking time out everyday to check the intricate details of each unwarranted complaint about item sploiters?
    Having been a regular on the test server, member of the council of testers and a professional for more years than i care to remember, im on pretty friendly terms with our devs and with no disrespect to them, i wouldnt call them expert twinkers either (Sorry Michi, but access to Touch of Marius makes you lazy! :P)


    So who is it that will be the judge between difficult twinking and exploited gear?

    I think this is a viable concern to those of us who will almost certainly be reported for "sploiting xxxxx item on" during the first few days this change goes live, despite the fact that they where nothign more than very complex and difficult twinks.
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  6. #326
    The lore argument can probably move to Fourth Wall
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  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Uaintseenme View Post
    Keeping in mind that arks and GM are simply glorified players with a few extra powers to (ab)use, they can by no means use this as a benchmark for the GM/ARK's twinking abbilities.
    So will it be our busy dev team taking time out everyday to check the intricate details of each unwarranted complaint about item sploiters?
    ARKs are players, yes, although they've NEVER had anything to do with banning people. Even the Exploits Team only do the legwork, and it will be passed up from there.
    GMs aren't players (they may play tho), they're FC employees. Not all GMs are Devs, but I believe most Devs are GMs...

    Several RKS have become GMs tho...
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  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    I don't think anyone needs inspect to spot the slacker - after he does no damage on the first mob or uses lousy heals/debuffs etc., you already know!
    Notice what you stated here.. AFTER. In other words, you're forced to endure a ridiculously long inf mission or go through a bad experience in a raid group because you didn't find out until AFTER the encounter started. Open inspect will give reasonable people the ability to access a situation BEFORE the crap hits the fan.

    I've put together a lot of raid groups so I know what's needed to pull something off. There are individuals I know that, if they're the doc, can solo heal darn near anything.. and then there are 220 docs that I know might need some support (i.e. a non-220 doc or a strong advy healer) to keep the raid alive. The same can be said for ccing, tanking, etc. Having inspect information isn't the end-all-be-all BUT a knowledgable player can use that information to help them organize a team. Sure skill can overcome some things.. absolutely.. but it can't overcome everything. Gear plays a big part in AO, if it didn't.. we'd all be walking around in beach wear I'd imagine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    But for every guy in a medsuit who gets justifiably kicked from his Inf team, there will be 10 scenarios like this:

    "Kick the guy in OFAB and get someone in CC - it'll save us 5 minutes!"

    That will happen, take it to the bank!
    I don't think that's the case. As you already pointed out... there isn't a HUGE pool of people to work with so I doubt that what you're stating above will be the norm.. it'll be the exception. But since neither of us can predict the future its just a guess either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    It's not enough that LFT is miserable, even at 220 and even at prime time.
    It's not enough that many professions have a hard time finding teams as it is.
    Noooo, we need to add another layer of discrimination for good measure!
    I personally believe that open inspect will improve the teaming situation. Many players, especially more veteran players, are already reluctant to invite unknown factors into their teams. Why? Some of it is because they're just elitist, some of it is because they don't want to be bothered with 'teaching' someone an encounter but most of it is probably because of previous bad experiences. I bet there isn't a single person that posted in this thread that doesn't have a horror story similar to finding out 220 doc doesn't have UBT, the soldier doesn't have SL reflects or the fixer is missing hots and ncu (basic stuff). It is highly unlikely that those type of people are geared out in up to date huds/utils/ncu, armor and implant slot items. So.... if you're able to inspect someone and you see the 220 doc wearing ql 150 imps and TL4 gear then you might be able to avoid a disaster before it happens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    Agreed, this is not about me and my toons, it is about the community. I had full 300 AI sets long before everyone and their dog exploited them through the GMI glitch
    Lost me on the glitch piece there but... my point is that people are already discriminating against other players. The people that are truly elitist are already not teaming with 'whoever' and that's not going to change. It isn't information that is the problem, it is what each individual chooses to do with it that can be. I've been around since 2004 and I've seen the community dwindle and such but I've always felt that AO has the most helpful and welcoming community of any I've ever played. The community isn't that way because they lack the tools to determine if someone is undergeared (remember we used to be able to see it, visually, prior to social tab).. the community's that way because the overwhelming majority of people that play this game are reasonable and mature adults.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Mar 5th, 2014 at 03:00:20.
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  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    The lore argument can probably move to Fourth Wall
    Why? Lore =/= RP. Fourth Wall says it's for story and RP, but come on, we all know it's for RP. If it's relevant to the OP, why have the conversation move anyways? They're being civil and are all providing well thought out and reasoned arguments.
    Last edited by Esssch; Mar 5th, 2014 at 21:35:49.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Nusquam View Post
    Hi guys,

    I have returned from my Australian travels, somewhat more relaxed and excited about 2014 to come. Next week I will be heading over to hang out with the team and get down all of our plans for the game over the coming twelve months. But for now, let's talk about what has been happening in development over the last month or so.

    Alright guys, thanks for listening. Hopefully once we have had our planning meeting, Genele will have all sorts of juicy plans to share with you next month!

    Joel Bylos
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  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Nusquam View Post
    Hi guys,

    The upcoming 18.7 patch (targeted for Tuesday next week on the closed beta server) has a fairly extensive list of system changes:

    - Parry will be replaced by a new defensive stat called Deflect.

    - We will enable everyone to see friendly nano programs in their opponent's NCU.

    - We will disable the ability to decline inspects.
    [*]Shades will get the ability to hide in the middle of combat.

    - Grid armor will be opened up to the Shadowlands and will require Break& Entry instead of Mat. Crea.
    Well after reading through and skimming pages of posts...

    I like the deflect idea IF it is tied to a weapon that requires or used to require parry/deflect stat.

    Seeing nanos in ncu I like also, never understood why this wasn't enabled at same time you could "open target or fighting ncu window". Only complaints here would be from the pvp players that want to duel you OSB. Which again It's pretty easy to assume what OSB's everyone is going to be running anyway. Or look at "nano effects on" option.

    Disable inspect...kinda torn on this, however in ALL honesty why anyone would care, considering ALL 220 pvp toons have almost identical equipment anyway. Easily you can count the EXACT same 5-8 end-game hud/util items any 220 toon is going to have equiped. Not a big deal imo. As far as teaming, I have found in my time your name/rep goes a LOT farther than your Amex card for getting teams. Maybe I am in the minority in this regard I PREFER to recruit new players to my org as they are not jaded, tainted, or poisoned by other experiences.

    Shades hiding in combat, wow. What does "in combat" mean to devs? Does that mean they can break off attacking and just ghost away, or does it mean they can use that ability "after being detected" and sneak off when not directly being attacked?

    Grid armor in SL interesting, don;t really see any game breaking here. Although will kinda hurt froobs with NR loss.
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  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by dexiecane View Post
    YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. STOP RUINING THE GAME... MORE SO THAN IT ALREADY IS.

    A comically-simple solution for your development woes, AO: get rid of the useless Creative Director and hire two more developers.
    So what part of him being on vacation for like months and not really doing any of the work related here did you miss? also he's the creative director for AoC and TSW as well, so firing him and hiring AO devs is not really a budget option.
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  13. #333
    Besides the lore twists already in existence and the time that passed since the activation of the RK <> SL Portals being relatively short do not forget that a specific technology strain sometimes tends to develop faster as you go.

    While the initial act of getting this portal to work (and even to work in heavy use scenarios) might be difficult, it is entirely possible that someone developed a way to interconnect the grid with some SL meta-tech after that.
    I see it also fitting that as first a relative small circle of users (Fixers) is able to test this connection for its stability and reliability before opening it up to more people. Maybe at first adding some Fixer Grid exits to early SL zones, developing further to later zones and eventually leading to regular Grid access / exits terminals in SL in the future.

    What I would see as a nice addition would be to add some sort of instability like: Whenever a Fixer wearing/having a grid armor beacon zones between RK and SL there is a small chance (~1-5%) the connection is disrupted and the beacon destroyed.

    Hopefully this makes any sense.

    Edit: Sorry, I missed that there was an entire new page of replies when I wrote this. :/
    Last edited by Misat0; Mar 5th, 2014 at 11:06:53.
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  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Why? Lore =/= RP. Fourth Wall says it's for story and RP, but come on, we all know it's for RP. If it's relevant to the OP, why have the conversation move anyways? They're being civil and are all providing well though out and reasoned arguments.
    Seconded. We are trying to offer lore solutions to the devs, not screaming incoherently to take it back!
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  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    So what part of him being on vacation for like months...
    Sounds like he was in prison

  16. #336
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  17. #337
    keep smiling
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  18. #338
    It's amazing with all the doom and gloom over past years. How many folks swore AO was going to cut off the servers and go dark etc etc? Now that we are seeing some actual progress and change, complaints again. How many game directors did we have working on changes either engine or NPE?

    I for one say any change is a good sign. Keep in perspective this is all just being TESTED atm. Nothing has made it to live or gauranteed to make it to live. That's why it's called TESTING.
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  19. #339

    :>

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    I don't think anyone needs inspect to spot the slacker - after he does no damage on the first mob or uses lousy heals/debuffs etc., you already know!

    But for every guy in a medsuit who gets justifiably kicked from his Inf team, there will be 10 scenarios like this:

    "Kick the guy in OFAB and get someone in CC - it'll save us 5 minutes!"

    That will happen, take it to the bank!

    It's not enough that LFT is miserable, even at 220 and even at prime time.
    It's not enough that many professions have a hard time finding teams as it is.
    Noooo, we need to add another layer of discrimination for good measure!



    Agreed, this is not about me and my toons, it is about the community.
    I had full 300 AI sets long before everyone and their dog exploited them through the GMI glitch.
    I'll stop buying CC social armors to cover my levelling toon medsuits, that's a positive aspect.

    *Rooh*

    {edited for inappropriate content}

  20. #340
    It's funny how the pro-inspect people forget why Funcom wants to implement it:

    To catch cheaters, they said so!

    As soon as the patch goes live, absolutely nobody will have anything exploited equipped.
    So Funcom will "catch" zero cheaters and I bet they know that too. But everybody who likes their privacy gets punished.

    It would be more honest if funcom just says "FU old-timers, we want inspect to attract more nosey little WoW players!"

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