Monthly Development Update - 28th February 2014

[Traderjill]

What you are really saying is "L2P scrubs", just like that WOW troll earlier?

No, it isn't my style to say L2P Scrubs or call people baddies to their face in /tells, vicinity or OOC. I do make these comments to friends (about other people), however, because ultimately it is how I feel. Nevertheless, I have no desire to hurt anyone's feelings or make them feel bad. How someone else chooses to play the game is up to them just as I can choose not to play with them because their playstyle is such an extreme opposite of my own. I don't have a problem with people that have undergeared toons. I'll chat with them and even befriend them.. I just don't want them in my teams. I have friends that are Omni, they're nice people but I don't team them in PvP. I have friends that roleplay.. same thing, cool folks but not my speed so we don't hang out in games. I see the gear thing in the same way. People have different focuses in game. The only thing I think is wrong is trying to passively force people to team with people that simply aren't a good fit with their playstyle by hiding information.

After you posted all that smoke screen stuff about reputation and helping newbs with inspect, you are finally showing your true colors?

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong but when you say that someone posts smoke screen that indicates they were trying to hide something, right? And when you say I'm finally showing my true colors that means I was previously showing something different?

This was my first post in this thread:

So post title says it all. I'd like to take full PvE advantage of this change and I can only do that if I can properly discriminate against people before I add them to my team. Please add remote inspect ability via the LFT interface. In fact.. if you can add /inspect <name-here> that would be even better that way I can inspect people in a team I get added to and make some early decisions on whether I want to stick it out or leave straight away.

If you have some extra time on your hands, it would also be nice to do an inspect on uploaded nanos.. that way I can see upfront that the soldier doesn't have any of their SL reflect nanos and the fixer didn't bother to upload a hot... that type of thing.

Thanks!

Please tell me exactly what it is I was hiding or what false impression I was giving. I said straight up what I wanted and how I wanted to use it and asked for them to go a step further with it. The conversation down the road is not contradictory to that. I do indeed plan to use it for a myriad of reasons, starting with the one I listed in my first post. This is no different than the way I have always used inspect (as I have outlined in my other posts, most people I encounter already have inspect enabled anyway).

The only smokescreen and revealing of true colors happening is the kind that happens when you join a team with a 220 crat and find out he doesn't realize that he's supposed to have init debuffs when the RL is shouting "Mailaise please! Debuffs please!" and there's no reaction OR A doctor that can't cast their 220 nanos because they don't meet the nanoskill requirement. Guess I'm the only one not entertained about such revelations in the middle of a raid.

[Grandpa]

Well, you can argue that if said exploiters all remove their exploited gear because of it, then it doesnt matter whether there's an increase in reports or not the patch will have served its purpose.

Yes, agreed!

And I would be fine with mandatory inspect being enabled for a short while, if it really would serve that purpose.
It might clear out the people who have ql300 ai on TL5's when they read the patch notes.

But the average user can only identify the most obvious gear exploits!

Only a GM (or someone with a lot of time on their hands and good math skills) can say for certain if i.e. a random QL item can or cannot be equipped at a given level.
A lot of false reports will be generated by people who "think" it's cheating when it really isn't.

So in the end, a GM is needed to confirm or refute these reports!
Then why do we need inspect and why does the paying customer have to do FC's job?

[Mastablasta]

Well, considering that it's impossible to automatically check things like that, it might be FC's job, but if it's impossible for them to check it without having people manually check everything or store huge logs of every change a character makes to itself...

[Grandpa]

Well, considering that it's impossible to automatically check things like that, it might be FC's job, but if it's impossible for them to check it without having people manually check everything or store huge logs of every change a character makes to itself...

So instead, we generate huge logs of possibly false reports that need to be manually reviewed by Funcom? That's not a solution at all.

With a user base this small, it would be more cost and time effective if a GM randomly spot-checks toons, either in-game or offline.

Once a few have been found and punished, the cheaters will take notice and "adjust" their gear.

[Literary]

Well if all the cheaters have taken off their ill-gotten gear, then we'll need to inspect everyone's bank too. This could have negative consequences though. Cthulhu was sane once but then he looked into my soldier's bank.

[Mastablasta]

So instead, we generate huge logs of possibly false reports that need to be manually reviewed by Funcom? That's not a solution at all.

With a user base this small, it would be more cost and time effective if a GM randomly spot-checks toons, either in-game or offline.

Once a few have been found and punished, the cheaters will take notice and "adjust" their gear.

There is no real solutions to cheaters They will always be around. You can only try to expose them as much as possible.

[Gunforhire]

Why do I get the feeling reading this that there are hundreds of exploits out there that I don't know about. Maybe I don't know about them because there aren't hundreds just a very few that affect me in no way.

[Antimony]

No, it isn't my style to say L2P Scrubs or call people baddies to their face in /tells, vicinity or OOC.

Ok, you are more polite than the wow trolls, but have the same sentiments. I get that now.
Kinda got lost in your walls of text about reputation > gear and helping newbs with inspect.

In your own post you state that people are going to rush to gold farmers to ungimp.

And you still don't object that inspect gonna force the gimps to go to gold spammers to gear up, cause that ain't cheating, right?

Why do I get the feeling reading this that there are hundreds of exploits out there that I don't know about. Maybe I don't know about them because there aren't hundreds just a very few that affect me in no way.

Can't talk about it here but you can pm me and I send you a list of stuff with links and websites.
Will make gear sploiting look like child's play and yeah it affects you and everyone here even if you don't believe it.

[Traderjill]

And you still don't object that inspect gonna force the gimps to go to gold spammers to gear up, cause that ain't cheating, right?

I'm pretty sure that I never said that buying credits was legit. I also don't subscribe to the concept that a game having gearing challenges is the cause of someone being a cheater.

So do I object to people with cheater mentalities playing games that I play? Yes. Is there anything I can do about it besides report cheaters when I'm made aware of it? No.

[Antimony]

I'm pretty sure that I never said that buying credits was legit. I also don't subscribe to the concept that a game having gameplay issues is the cause of someone being a cheater. This is like saying "I didn't have enough money to buy a new BMW so I stole one."

So do I object to people with cheater mentalities playing games that I play? Yes. Is there anything I can do about it besides report cheaters when I'm made aware of it? No.

So FC says "We want inspect to catch cheaters".
And you are saying "I want inspect to discriminate and I don't give a damn if it creates more cheaters."

Got it, glad we cleared that up!

[Phatkeep]

Played 8 years, never even heard of anyone not getting a team inv because of gimpy gear.

[Traderjill]

So FC says "We want inspect to catch cheaters".
And you are saying "I want inspect to discriminate and I don't give a damn if it creates more cheaters."

Got it, glad we cleared that up!

I think you're selectively reading or improperly interpreting what I said. A game doesn't make cheaters. If someone plays a video game and decides to cheat, exploit, whatever rule breaking then its their lack of morals to blame, not some random gameplay concern.

[Antimony]

I think you're selectively reading or improperly interpreting what I said. A game doesn't make cheaters. If someone plays a video game and decides to cheat, exploit, whatever rule breaking then its their lack of morals to blame, not some random gameplay concern.

Inspect will force people to ungimp, that's what you want and that's what you'll get.
Hence prices for everything useful will rise but credits you can make from the game stay the same.

So people will either quit or find other ways to get the gear you want them to have.
Easiest and fastest way is to buy it and for some that might be the only way.

With inspect, we'll lose some people and we'll turn others into cheaters, that's a fact.
Imo, neither is good for the game.

Morals?
What are you smoking, man? Do you really not know the internet???

[Traderjill]

Inspect will force people to ungimp, that's what you want and that's what you'll get.

I'll tell you my observations but you go look for yourself. Most people already have inspect enabled unless they're PvPers. I have always inspected everyone I come across. It is rare that a non-PvPer has it disabled. In my experience I'd go as far as to say that over 75% of the non-PvP players I encounter in game have inspect enabled. A percentage of those that do not are probably people that have decent setups but just don't like people being nosey. Of the 75% that have inspect enabled, a good portion of those people are already openly gimp.

Now my numbers are probably off and obviously one person's experience isn't representative of the entire population. So let's say that 50% of the population already has inspect enabled, of the 50% that keep it disabled a portion of those have perfectly acceptable setups that leaves what? 20-25% that are in gimp setups and hiding it. I dunno.. I really don't think there's going to be some rush on the cred sellers over this, lol.

Morals?
What are you smoking, man? Do you really not know the internet???

Sometimes I lie, sometimes I'm not nice, sometimes I do bad things. That's in real life.. day to day. And sure, that same thing happens via the internet.. but I don't pretend that "the game made me do it". I'd have to be smoking something to have those types of hallucinations.

[Esssch]

Sometimes I lie, sometimes I'm not nice, sometimes I do bad things. That's in real life.. day to day. And sure, that same thing happens via the internet.. but I don't pretend that "the game made me do it". I'd have to be smoking something to have those types of hallucinations.

As we all know, gangsta rap made me do it

[Traderjill]

As we all know, gangsta rap made me do it

Have you seen Ride Along with Ice Cube and Kevin Hart? Pretty funny movie.. especially some of the gaming references.

[Antimony]

I'll tell you my observations but you go look for yourself. Most people already have inspect enabled unless they're PvPers. I have always inspected everyone I come across. It is rare that a non-PvPer has it disabled. In my experience I'd go as far as to say that over 75% of the non-PvP players I encounter in game have inspect enabled. A percentage of those that do not are probably people that have decent setups but just don't like people being nosey. Of the 75% that have inspect enabled, a good portion of those people are already openly gimp.

Now my numbers are probably off and obviously one person's experience isn't representative of the entire population. So let's say that 50% of the population already has inspect enabled, of the 50% that keep it disabled a portion of those have perfectly acceptable setups that leaves what? 20-25% that are in gimp setups and hiding it. I dunno.. I really don't think there's going to be some rush on the cred sellers over this, lol.

Sry, you are making less and less sense.

If so many have inspect enabled, can't you already do your gear check most of the time?

And you could ask the few who don't have inspect enabled to open it up for you when they join your team.
I know, weird idea to ask people, but I thought you like to be social?
If they don't do it, you'll kick 'em, if they got bad gear you kick 'em, no sweat, problem solved.

So why do you even insist on making inspect mandatory?

[Emma]

I'll tell you my observations but you go look for yourself. Most people already have inspect enabled unless they're PvPers. I have always inspected everyone I come across. It is rare that a non-PvPer has it disabled. In my experience I'd go as far as to say that over 75% of the non-PvP players I encounter in game have inspect enabled.

You and others with your attitude are the reason I keep inspect disabled on all my toons and most if not all the people I know in-game and/or share chat channels with keep their inspect disabled as well. I am not a PvPer nor are the folks mentioned above.

You must play in a vastly different circle of players to get such a different impression on who does and does not have inspect disabled.

Emma

[Esssch]

ITT: those who have decent gear go "meh" over the inspect change. Those who have crap gear while somehow still considering it important have wasted the last 5 years without any real content updates.

If you care about your gear, stop being lazy and farm it. There's only so many slots and it doesn't take years to finish. If you don't care about your gear, there's no reason to be upset about the inspect changes. Heck, scratch that. There's no reason to be upset about the inspect changes. Uh oh, someone might see your character's pixels! How scandalous!

[Grandpa]

ITT: those who have decent gear go "meh" over the inspect change. Those who have crap gear while somehow still considering it important have wasted the last 5 years without any real content updates.

If you care about your gear, stop being lazy and farm it. There's only so many slots and it doesn't take years to finish. If you don't care about your gear, there's no reason to be upset about the inspect changes. Heck, scratch that. There's no reason to be upset about the inspect changes. Uh oh, someone might see your character's pixels! How scandalous!

I have decent gear on all my 35 toons and good gear on many of them.

But I do care about my privacy!

Why do I have to put up with inspect just to satisfy the curiosity of kids or nosey adults?
Why do I have to submit to arbitrary gear checks, based on nothing but their personal opinion?
Why do I have to endure unqualified and derogatory comments that inevitably follow?

The "catching cheaters" premise has already been thoroughly debunked. Even the pro-inspect crowd agrees on that.
AO has nothing positive to gain from inspect, but it has a lot to lose as a consequence.

Nobody will quit because mandatory inspect is NOT implemented.
But some will quit because it will be. Can a game this small really afford more players leaving?