Monthly Development Update - 2nd April 2014

[Eaglestrider]

Funcom is doing a great job when making people forget about the "new" engine... What a joke of a company.

Speak for yourself, I for one haven't forgot about it for a second....

[Gunforhire]

Funcom is doing a great job when making people forget about the "new" engine... What a joke of a company.

I haven't forgotten either otherwise I would not have visited the forum and seen your ridiculous post.

[Awikun]

To summarize: (tl;dr)
For the general problem of multiboxing, I do not believe there is an effective technical solution. For the specific problem of a single person wiping out tower sites by multiboxing, yes, solutions exist. For unfair PvP caused by multiboxing, technical solution is not the answer, but policy needs to come first.

Excellent post that also fits very well to what Vhab and Macrosunwrote earlier.
I think there is a very good idea in this post: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=610514

For all lazy ppl I ll write a short summary here
Create new pvp only grenades buyable from tower shoops for VPs
Grenade does not require any skill and have no defense check (no way to resist it for anybody)
When used on target they do small damage capped at 5% of HP but they have AoE 25 m effect of explosion that blows away in random directions everybody affected from 10 to 25 m.
At the same time (all follow commands are reset).
Using such grenade locks skill for 2 minutes.

This should not afect normal pvpers (may even add some fun) and mutiboxer will loose control of his "slave army" which will become sitting ducks.

Problem solved

[Aeliniyah]

...mutiboxer will loose control of his "slave army" which will become sitting ducks.

Hmmh... do multiBOXERS really use /follow to control the "slaves?"

If the software used for multiboxing copies the keyboard commands from one keyboard to all logged clients, shouldn't all the characters move in sync with the wsad or arrow keys just like the main account character would?

If it does, any change to how /follow works (or the complete removal of it that's suggested here and elsewhere for this issue several times) only affects the multiLOGGERS not boxers.

[Awikun]

If they do not use follow but keystrokes then it will work even better.

Imagine this:
Multiboxer has a nice formation and controls their movement by keystrokes.
Grenade hits and his formation is randomly scatered each char facing different direction.
As he continues controling his "main char" all "slaves" wander away in all possible directions

[Tikra]

I really like the Grenade idea

[jorricane]

I really like the Grenade idea

Mmm....grenades with knockback and that disable /follow + /assist. That is an elegant solution right there.

[hokutonoken]

i wouldn't mind a "I WIN" button ~ a new tower add on ^_= ...push it and everyone get ejected out of range.. (almost like an orbital strike) ^_=

[schloops]

Well, multilogging is of 2 kinds:
- multi-logging with paid accounts, which is basically pay for win
- multi-logging with only one paid account, which is harmless to the game

I have fun doing some multiboxing with my froobs... usually for social stuff. Harmless to the game.

So no, it's not multi-logging great / multiboxing not good. In this case, it's quite the opposite.

The current fuss about MB is totally linked to griefing towers.
Maybe just make toons blinded to loose their follow target thingy.
MB doesn't work for griefing without follow.

edit: Bleh, didn't think... MB could rework in just one click... ahem, nevermind.

[BlockAndLode]

i wouldn't mind a "I WIN" button ~ a new tower add on ^_= ...push it and everyone get ejected out of range.. (almost like an orbital strike) ^_=

Actually... along that line of thinking, they could put a fr00b suppression field around all tower locations making it impossible for fr00bs to attack, be attacked by, or use nanos within the tower zone. Add a warning popup for fr00bs, and that takes care of the multi-log fr00b tower war thing...

(that being said, I don't participate in tower wars, so it doesn't really matter much to me either way, just trying to be helpful lol... and yes, I am a paid account. :P)

[Psikie]

I put my engineering mind on the topic and wrote down some thoughts for comments. I don't differentiate multilogging and multiboxing in the post, that is details of implementing the same thing.

You can make multiboxing a hassle to do but it's not preventable in my opinion. The philosophy to overcome it should be the game itself requiring intelligent input from the user to actually play the game in a useful manner. But this is AO, and just the simple act of having 6 clients press O at the same time accomplishes a rather powerful thing.

Or we could just have random CAPTCHAs pop up at any time in a tower war scenario. I am sure everyone would love that.
Claiming there needs to be a technical solution that fixes the problem is narrow-minded thinking and does not even serve to identify whether FC condones this practice of multiboxed PvP or not.

Even as a basic idea, attach a hefty, meaningful cost to emergency defense shield neutralizers (like, at least 10s of millions at TL7), make it required to be used 20 minutes before towers are attacked.

At the same time, you just created a money sink for the inflated economy. The price should be high.

Excellent post that also fits very well to what Vhab and Macrosunwrote earlier.
I think there is a very good idea in this post: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=610514

Create new pvp only grenades buyable from tower shoops for VPs
Grenade does not require any skill and have no defense check (no way to resist it for anybody) When used on target they do small damage capped at 5% of HP but they have AoE 25 m effect of explosion that blows away in random directions everybody affected from 10 to 25 m.
At the same time (all follow commands are reset).
Using such grenade locks skill for 2 minutes.

Fantastic, ideas toward SOLUTION, not excuses.

[Psikie]

Actually... along that line of thinking, they could put a fr00b suppression field around all tower locations making it impossible for fr00bs to attack, be attacked by, or use nanos within the tower zone. Add a warning popup for fr00bs, and that takes care of the multi-log fr00b tower war thing...

(that being said, I don't participate in tower wars, so it doesn't really matter much to me either way, just trying to be helpful lol... and yes, I am a paid account. :P)

NW is froob content though.

[Awikun]

Well, multilogging is of 2 kinds:
- multi-logging with paid accounts, which is basically pay for win
- multi-logging with only one paid account, which is harmless to the game

I have fun doing some multiboxing with my froobs... usually for social stuff. Harmless to the game.

Then you will not be affected by "new pvp grenades"

[Beornin]

I like the pvp grenades. A lot!

[DigitalBath]

Then you will not be affected by "new pvp grenades"

Although I like the base idea, wouldn't that make it unfair for pvp profs that often still rely on /follow?

If it just resets the /follow it won't be enough as 3rd party users need to press 1 button and everything re-follows easily.
If it disables /follow for a period of time it will impact melee professions that need it and thus be bad for non-multiboxers as well.

How would you go about it?

[Leetlover]

The specific problem of solo tower griefing by multibox:
I think the key issue here is it is possible for a single person to conduct, without penalty, an activity which causes significant hassle for a large group of people who also have no way to respond but being on constant lookout.

non-issue imo.

wtb real wars (@funcom) but rubi-ka is a warzone.

For the general problem of multiboxing, I do not believe there is an effective technical solution. For the specific problem of a single person wiping out tower sites by multiboxing, yes, solutions exist. For unfair PvP caused by multiboxing, technical solution is not the answer, but policy needs to come first.

We can move more towards turn-based pvp and less fps-pvp.

This should make MB less viable in pvp and give singlebox a better footing:

• Slow down special-attacks (if u move while they charge up it disrupts) but add nessesary perkchanges.
• Nerf passive teambuffs/auras. Make them active instead (guardian perk = active)
• Nerf the new pet-deroot, it's too fast and too good. A petprof got selftools too.
• Make some nukes not instant and have them recheck range/los-rule two times. Once upon execution and again upon landing.

[Awikun]

Although I like the base idea, wouldn't that make it unfair for pvp profs that often still rely on /follow?

If it just resets the /follow it won't be enough as 3rd party users need to press 1 button and everything re-follows easily.
If it disables /follow for a period of time it will impact melee professions that need it and thus be bad for non-multiboxers as well.

How would you go about it?

I think the best solution would be to limit the range of the target you want to follow.
For example for /follow to start working you have to be within 10m away from your target.
Follow will still work when target moves away (because of higher run speed) so this should not affect pvm as well as melee prof in pvp.

It will hurt multiboxer because grenade can separate "master" from "slaves" from 10m+ up to 100m sending any keys and command will not work
Multiboxer will have to lose a lot of time to reorganise their slaves manually and then he can be hit by another grenade

It is just an idea and I do not claim that I know all the answers. This whole concept would have to be carefully examined and tested and that is a work for FC...

[Traderjill]

If they revamp notum wars (which seems to be winning in the poll) and change how you initiate an attack (more notice, raise the requirements to initiate an attack so that a solo player would be put out to do so) the multiboxing becomes a non-issue.

[DigitalBath]

I think the best solution would be to limit the range of the target you want to follow.
For example for /follow to start working you have to be within 10m away from your target.
Follow will still work when target moves away (because of higher run speed) so this should not affect pvm as well as melee prof in pvp.

It will hurt multiboxer because grenade can separate "master" from "slaves" from 10m+ up to 100m sending any keys and command will not work
Multiboxer will have to lose a lot of time to reorganise their slaves manually and then he can be hit by another grenade

It is just an idea and I do not claim that I know all the answers. This whole concept would have to be carefully examined and tested and that is a work for FC...

Hmm.. It would disrupt multiboxing to a certain extent indeed.
But I can't see how it wouldn't be abused by both normal ranged players and multiboxers themselves. As soon as a melee hits follow you can throw a nade and use a root.. and the target is now up to 100m away and rooted before the game syncs up.. add a blind to the mix if you want to be cruel.

It's not a bad base idea though, contrary to some I've seen in this thread. But the best "solution" is still fixing the underlying population issue. If AO had huge numbers people wouldn't multilog/box because it wouldn't be necessary or even viable. A multi-toon player in a highly crowded game can be put at a huge disadvantage with ease.. and I hope that's the route we take in the end..

And, of course, knowing if FC is actually against this or not would help shape this threads and clean a lot of doubts up. It should be addressed by FC with a simple answer in regards to allowed/not allowed and the stance of 3rd party tools that do NOT automate actions (if the tool does 1 action per click/keypress it's the same as a custom keyboard or mouse driver and can't be banned any more than any other driver.. which can be turn into a huge mess).

Anyway.. let's have a drink to AO's healthy population numbers in the future to get us out of 70% of the average player's issues!

[Phatkeep]

Anyway.. let's have a drink to AO's healthy population numbers in the future to get us out of 70% of the average player's issues!

There is a chicken - egg thing going here. There won't be more ppl if the game doesn't get better first. FC could/should focus on small stuff first. Like common org bank, making inf missions work without a 220, putting an exit at inf mish endings and other "convenience" issues. It's small stuff that they could change that would do a LOT. Given the tiny team AO has, focus on max work/reward ratio stuff.