Thread: Monthly Development Update - 2nd April 2014

  1. #321
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Tryptophy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatkeep View Post
    There is a chicken - egg thing going here. There won't be more ppl if the game doesn't get better first. FC could/should focus on small stuff first. Like common org bank, making inf missions work without a 220, putting an exit at inf mish endings and other "convenience" issues. It's small stuff that they could change that would do a LOT. Given the tiny team AO has, focus on max work/reward ratio stuff.
    Second this, when I think of all the simple little changes that gave me a rush of good feelings, they are things like: the new comp buffs, comps for froobs, the tradeskill window, shorter SL beacon cooldown, removal of invisible walls in Tir. Just little things that make life easier - a few of these each patch would go a long way toward maintaining some morale around here.

    Also, a simple change to trader drains at lower levels would spawn a ton of new projects and keep people with things to do.
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  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptophy View Post
    Second this, when I think of all the simple little changes that gave me a rush of good feelings, they are things like: the new comp buffs, comps for froobs, the tradeskill window, shorter SL beacon cooldown, removal of invisible walls in Tir. Just little things that make life easier - a few of these each patch would go a long way toward maintaining some morale around here.

    Also, a simple change to trader drains at lower levels would spawn a ton of new projects and keep people with things to do.



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  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatkeep View Post
    There is a chicken - egg thing going here. There won't be more ppl if the game doesn't get better first. FC could/should focus on small stuff first. Like common org bank, making inf missions work without a 220, putting an exit at inf mish endings and other "convenience" issues. It's small stuff that they could change that would do a LOT. Given the tiny team AO has, focus on max work/reward ratio stuff.
    I couldn't agree more! These are the some of the most important things to fix in AO and some of them are surely already being worked on or at least thought upon.
    Small things can go a long way in making players happier.
    That's why I gave a lower priority to the multi-toon issues and would address the causes of low population that brought it into such a dire state to begin with.

    I'd add to the list a better and possibly more automated way of looking for groups. Roles in AO are a lot wider than in other games, but most teams would benefit from 1 tank 1 healer 1 support and 3 pure dps as a setup. If I could, as a noob, join a queue for totw and get anywhere close to that I'd be a happy noob!

    Of course it's not as easy to implement as most of your ideas, but it isn't insanely hard either. Figure out a few group setups that work, let people choose their "roles" and add a queue/group system. Optionally add a "teleport to encounter" part as well.. but I actually don't mind leaving that part out.
    This would work for instances and raid encounters as well as maybe common hubs for dyna camping and xp farming.
    The only drawback I can see is that the population could spread itself too thin across the amount of content AO has.. but that could be somewhat fixed by having "suggested encounters" or something.

    I just woke up. Ignore typos and blast any bad ideas to shreds.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
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    <Lazy>
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    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
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  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    I couldn't agree more! These are the some of the most important things to fix in AO and some of them are surely already being worked on or at least thought upon.
    Small things can go a long way in making players happier.
    That's why I gave a lower priority to the multi-toon issues and would address the causes of low population that brought it into such a dire state to begin with.

    I'd add to the list a better and possibly more automated way of looking for groups. Roles in AO are a lot wider than in other games, but most teams would benefit from 1 tank 1 healer 1 support and 3 pure dps as a setup. If I could, as a noob, join a queue for totw and get anywhere close to that I'd be a happy noob!

    Of course it's not as easy to implement as most of your ideas, but it isn't insanely hard either. Figure out a few group setups that work, let people choose their "roles" and add a queue/group system. Optionally add a "teleport to encounter" part as well.. but I actually don't mind leaving that part out.
    This would work for instances and raid encounters as well as maybe common hubs for dyna camping and xp farming.
    The only drawback I can see is that the population could spread itself too thin across the amount of content AO has.. but that could be somewhat fixed by having "suggested encounters" or something.

    I just woke up. Ignore typos and blast any bad ideas to shreds.

    Check out the thread in my sig, a whole mess o' text containing some words on similar subjects
    -= Make the new engine look even better. Don't forget to post a screenshot! =-

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatkeep View Post
    There is a chicken - egg thing going here. There won't be more ppl if the game doesn't get better first. FC could/should focus on small stuff first. Like common org bank, making inf missions work without a 220, putting an exit at inf mish endings and other "convenience" issues. It's small stuff that they could change that would do a LOT. Given the tiny team AO has, focus on max work/reward ratio stuff.
    while i agree with the concept, i disagree about the direction. but i've posted on these matters so many times i'll just refer you to orchis thread and say: if you're looking for new players, you need to better introduce them to the game. ao is so unique because of its complexity. but that also makes it very hard for new players to enjoy. even if they'd get it (usually because they are recruited to an org that helps them and does fc job there), coping with bad graphics and the lack of interesting, fun content (not another big boss mob that can be farmed by some guy for creds, but interesting educative missions or quests) until you're at a level and acquired the resources to do what ao is good at: to twink and pvp...until you are there most people will just drop out and go play something else.

    and please. inf missions are totally pointless these days. i strongly disapprove any form of work on this. you can make inf missions as convenient as you like and as fancy as you like. no player in his right mind will pay for a game because of something that boring and repetitive or even if it was as much of a central part of the game that people claim it to be.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatkeep View Post
    There is a chicken - egg thing going here. There won't be more ppl if the game doesn't get better first. FC could/should focus on small stuff first. Like common org bank, making inf missions work without a 220, putting an exit at inf mish endings and other "convenience" issues. It's small stuff that they could change that would do a LOT. Given the tiny team AO has, focus on max work/reward ratio stuff.
    I agree. This game is in need of fixing the annoying things before jumping in to larger things with their limited staff. New engine is not going to make or break this game. Steam isn't going to make or break this game. Getting a new and more instructive NPE will help a lot. And fixing the convenience issues as stated above will help everyone including new people. For a 12 year old game running into an issue like exiting the Bor bartender mish building backwards is unacceptable for crying out loud. Keep working on the big stuff like the engine yes but work on the other stuff also. A lot of this other stuff should have been fixed before you guys dedicated so many resources to the engine.
    Last edited by Gunforhire; Apr 13th, 2014 at 18:59:01.

  7. #327
    I have done even more thinking about the poll that is running and I actually find the options offered a discredit to the players. Sure there are things in each that need fixed but really it all revolves endgame and experiences for established players. So they finish the biggest ever update to the intro to the game and at around level 22-25 the new players will be left with the same old stuff that was not cutting it before.

    If this is FC's idea of fixing the game for new players how can we seriously take any offered endgame or tower changes as actually being viable once completed. The problem is FC is looking at specific level ranges for all this content even the NPE. When a game is designed to start with it is about the flow from level 1 to max level. Until FC looks at the game that way and introduces content that addresses the game in that manner this is all bandaids that really are wasting everyones time.
    Lheann
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  8. #328
    The only thing I think that'll happen with MB and a proposed set of Tower Wars changes, will be that the people responsible for the MB issues will merely adapt to the new changes.

    After all, what else is a no-lifer to do?
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Towerblock View Post
    The only thing I think that'll happen with MB and a proposed set of Tower Wars changes, will be that the people responsible for the MB issues will merely adapt to the new changes.

    After all, what else is a no-lifer to do?
    1. I have great respect for you as a player/person but I think its lame to call people that play this game no-lifers as if that label in itself makes a person do bad things. I mean if you go off of number of hours played I'm a no-lifer and I've never griefed anyone in the game... so how is that relevant? There is no correlation between number of hours played and the extent you'll go to grief someone else. And though people would like to think otherwise, there also isn't always a strong link between ingame actions and real life personality.

    anyway..

    2. Maybe if changes are made that make the MB griefing difficult the MBers might stop. Wasn't part of the point a retaliation against tower synching and other crap that was happening (unsportsmanlike behavior)? If towers are changed such that notum war battles are meaningful again then problem solved for all parties. I think we all need a reminder that there's no side in the AO war with a clean house, unfortunately.

    Feel free to skip this part.. just a story from my ao experience that reminds me of the whole multiboxing griefing situation.

    Years ago I was in an adonis team at main. Though we all gathered together, the team leader decided to kick me and an orgmate from team to make room for two of his friends. We weren't slacking, in fact we were carrying the team. When I messaged him to ask what happened, he rudely told me to screw off because his mates were coming. I did try to be reasonable but sometimes people don't listen to you when you try to be nice. So... I told my guild they logged toons and we od'd them on every mob until they finally gave up and went away. Of course they made a big deal about it (team lead and his friends were from another clan org) and tried to make out like we were the biggest griefers in game. If you look at it from the side that we took the spot, maybe it appeared like we did grief those poor guys. But in reality, they got what they deserved within the confines of the game rules. There is a lot of bullying in MMO's and when someone feels as if they've been bullied or wronged and retaliate.. well it is what it is and you just have to take your medicine.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Apr 13th, 2014 at 20:49:13.
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  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Towerblock View Post
    The only thing I think that'll happen with MB and a proposed set of Tower Wars changes, will be that the people responsible for the MB issues will merely adapt to the new changes.

    After all, what else is a no-lifer to do?
    Rude and uncalled for is all this post warrants as a response. (although uninformed also comes to mind).

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    1. I have great respect for you as a player/person but I think its lame to call people that play this game no-lifers as if that label in itself makes a person do bad things. I mean if you go off of number of hours played I'm a no-lifer and I've never griefed anyone in the game... so how is that relevant? There is no correlation between number of hours played and the extent you'll go to grief someone else. And though people would like to think otherwise, there also isn't always a strong link between ingame actions and real life personality.
    Perhaps that's what No-lifer means to you. To me, its a person who spends their gaming life establishing what a prick they are and having fun at the expense of someone else. Even 1 hour spent doing that is an hour wasted on nothing. Hence, my remark of No-lifer.

    Not once did I mention it as a measured unit of time merely spent in game. Nor did I link that at you.

    But I mostly disagree on the link between in game actions and real life personality. Much of the world we live in is not black and white, sure. I get that. But, someone in this game who actually spends their time gaining a reputation - either good or bad, is remembered for it - either good or bad. Your actions are your link. So, you really can only be judged on those.

    When someone goes out of their way to create a software program that allows them to go above and beyond the call of regular douchebaggery, whats to stop them from upping their game after its been 'fixed'? The other side of the coin, is that the only benevolent reaction is to just choose to not use the software, and spread the word its looked down upon. Whereas the reverse can spiral out to the point where it crushes what little life is left in Tower Wars.

    Escalation is the number one reason why small problems become large ones.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunforhire View Post
    Rude and uncalled for is all this post warrants as a response. (although uninformed also comes to mind).
    Hey. I don't know you, or where you stand on the issue. That's your opinion and I'm okay with that. This is not trolling; I'm merely giving you a heads up.

    This is a forum, where people are given a chance to voice themselves. I am allowed my opinion, and so are you - even if I or anyone else don't like it. That's the beauty of feedback. Its nothing personal, so I want you understand having that opinion of me means absolutely jack.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Towerblock View Post
    Perhaps that's what No-lifer means to you. To me, its a person who spends their gaming life establishing what a prick they are and having fun at the expense of someone else. Even 1 hour spent doing that is an hour wasted on nothing. Hence, my remark of No-lifer.

    Not once did I mention it as a measured unit of time merely spent in game. Nor did I link that at you.

    But I mostly disagree on the link between in game actions and real life personality. Much of the world we live in is not black and white, sure. I get that. But, someone in this game who actually spends their time gaining a reputation - either good or bad, is remembered for it - either good or bad. Your actions are your link. So, you really can only be judged on those.

    When someone goes out of their way to create a software program that allows them to go above and beyond the call of regular douchebaggery, whats to stop them from upping their game after its been 'fixed'? The other side of the coin, is that the only benevolent reaction is to just choose to not use the software, and spread the word its looked down upon. Whereas the reverse can spiral out to the point where it crushes what little life is left in Tower Wars.

    Escalation is the number one reason why small problems become large ones.
    Your assumption or implication that multiboxing software is largely made by the same people who use it is obviously wrong.

    Your assumption that multiboxing is only used for "douchebaggery" is just out of touch with reality. A lot of people use it to close the gap on the low population issue and make sure they can still enjoy PvE encounters while not affecting anyone else (often even to the benefit of others who join the team).

    Your personal meaning of "no lifer" doesn't work with the universal concept of "no lifer" on the MMO pseudo-glossary, and should be corrected.

    I don't multibox myself, but I have been on many teams with people logging / playing multiple characters. It usually was pretty awesome and made for a much better experience than not having enough people to run the content. YMMV.

    And of course, if you only meant to talk about a specific type of PvP multiboxing and explicitly exclude all other kinds of use of this practice, you should have made it clearer.

    Each one's entitled to his own opinion and that's the beauty of online forums. But when opinions go against obvious facts or come from rude assumptions, they usually get called out.
    This was your turn. Maybe I'm next.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatkeep View Post
    There is a chicken - egg thing going here. There won't be more ppl if the game doesn't get better first.
    The problem with this logic, is that there wont be more people in AO.
    There are no hoards of hungry gamers just waiting for AO to a get its minor facelift, or sitting patiently waiting for the day that inf missions dont make you want to stab yourself in the eye with a number 2 pencil.

    What we've got now, is as good as it'll get.
    The MMO marketplace is flooded with cheaper, newer, better looking and more easily accesable options and more are added to the list every month.
    We are in an ancient game, run by a company with *questionable* ethics and an even worse reputation.
    A slowly dwindling dev team and a playerbase with the outward public appearance of an angry mob on the verge of lighting torches and hoisting up the pitch forks.
    It isnt an appealing picture.

    So, realisticly speaking, the population is never going to increase by any significant amount, the emphasis therefore has to be on retaining the players we do have, for as long as possible.
    Nothing lasts forever and while the game isnt quite dead yet, its certainly in its twilight years and shopping around for a reasonably priced stairlift.(and possibly yelling at the nieghborhood kids to get off its lawn).
    Quote Originally Posted by egadsrk2 View Post
    In the case of this little drama, Party A created a situation. Party B perpetuated it with name calling. Party A finished it with violence...
    I was "party A"

  15. #335
    I have to disagree. It certainly is true that a niche game will have a niche gaming population and that graphics have an influence on the number of people that are interested in trying a game. But as long as a game does not become too niche for its own good and the game is kept playable it can have a large playerbase.

    Here are some of AO's basic problems.

    The greatest asset for an MMO are the players. Retaining new players is crucial.
    Using new players to feed veteran egos by pushing them to compete at a huge disadvantage is bad gameplay.
    Adding new content that is only accessible to veteran players, allowing veteran players to control access to prime content, keeping "rare" powerful items "rare" for 10 years and generally allowing the powercreep to turn old team content into easy solo farms for veterans while keeping new players out of the loot gathering process.
    Keeping and old MMO full of bugs, exploits, hidden features and secret tricks that can be abused by those "in the know" to gain unfair dissadvantages.
    Keeping an old, outdated and broken game expensive and even adding P2W content.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Your assumption or implication that multiboxing software is largely made by the same people who use it is obviously wrong.
    Pardon me here, but thats an assumption based upon an assumption that I didn't make. I only put out there was is, and what is observable. I watched what multiboxing did at Tower Wars. I am only reporting what I see. So please, before you get all totally Apex Forum Predator on me, see this link.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Your assumption that multiboxing is only used for "douchebaggery" is just out of touch with reality. A lot of people use it to close the gap on the low population issue and make sure they can still enjoy PvE encounters while not affecting anyone else (often even to the benefit of others who join the team).
    Thats an excuse. A popular one I might add. And that's based upon a PVE argument which I did not even engage. The only time I felt that multi-boxing would be a strong issue would be in places like The Gauntlet. Creating an unfair advantage in PVE or PVM is the issue I have with it. Not filling teams for inferno missions or LOX instances. I could care less about that stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Your personal meaning of "no lifer" doesn't work with the universal concept of "no lifer" on the MMO pseudo-glossary, and should be corrected.
    Really? You wanna nitpick and dictate to me what my perception of things are? I really couldn't give two flying ***** how my expressions don't fit into your tiny little ordered universes. That's your problem, not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    I don't multibox myself, but I have been on many teams with people logging / playing multiple characters. It usually was pretty awesome and made for a much better experience than not having enough people to run the content. YMMV.
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    And of course, if you only meant to talk about a specific type of PvP multiboxing and explicitly exclude all other kinds of use of this practice, you should have made it clearer.
    Did you notice I said TOWER WARS in my other post? Maybe you should read the entire (small post!) too before and take responsibility for the assumptions that are going in inside your own head based upon something you think you read out of my text. All of my commentary was towards PVP TOWER WARS. Maybe you didn't catch on, but isn't that the tragedy of it all? Its not my job to take time out of my day to sit you down and make that connection for you. You deal with it on your own terms and rationalize it isn't personal. I think that piece of information tends to slip quite a few people who'd rather feel butthurt than to just agree to disagree.

    I appreciate that you feel strongly about this maybe, but making it personal didn't give me any su****ion of anything other than you felt personally attacked. In which case, that's not something I can control. That's all in your head.
    Last edited by Towerblock; Apr 14th, 2014 at 06:53:22.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  17. #337
    hmm.. somebody's account get hacked or have I totally missed this side of your communication style? Glad I deleted my reply.. wasn't worth the argument I don't think.
    You can find me at:
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  18. #338
    Let the ad-hom wars begin!
    ZeePhonz :: 220/30/70 Adventurer
    ZeeMedic :: 220/30/70 Doctor
    ZeeDaKeep :: 220/30/70 Keeper
    Cratscan :: 220/30/70 Bureaucrat
    ZeeStabbie :: 220/30/65 Shade
    ZeeInstein :: 220/21/60 Engineer


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  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Towerblock View Post
    Pardon me here, but thats an assumption based upon an assumption that I didn't make. I only put out there was is, and what is observable. I watched what multiboxing did at Tower Wars. I am only reporting what reporting what I see. So please, before you get all totally Apex Forum Predator on me, see this link.



    Thats an excuse. A popular one I might add. And that's based upon a PVE argument which I did not even engage. The only time I felt that multi-boxing would be a strong issue would be in places like The Gauntlet. Creating an unfair advantage in PVE or PVM is the issue I have with it. Not filling teams for inferno missions or LOX instances. I could care less about that stuff.



    Really? You wanna nitpick and dictate to me what my perception of things are? I really couldn't give two flying ***** how my expressions don't fit into your tiny little ordered universes. That's your problem, not mine.





    Did you notice I said TOWER WARS in my other post? Maybe you should read the entire (small post!) too before and take responsibility for the assumptions that are going in inside your own head based upon something you think you read out of my text. All of my commentary was towards PVP TOWER WARS. Maybe you didn't catch on, but isn't that the tragedy of it all? Its not my job to take time out of my day to sit you down and make that connection for you. You deal with it on your own terms and rationalize it isn't personal. I think that piece of information tends to slip quite a few people who'd rather feel butthurt than to just agree to disagree.

    I appreciate that you feel strongly about this maybe, but making it personal didn't give me any su****ion of anything other than you felt personally attacked. In which case, that's not something I can control. That's all in your head.
    Not sure if trolling or just unable to read his own posts and apply common sense and reading comprehension.

    I re-read your post in full and my reply stands.

    Not sure it was worth the trouble though and I'm likely better off ignoring you like I do to some other forum bridge-dwelling folk.

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Apr 14th, 2014 at 03:36:21.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Not sure if trolling or just unable to read his own posts and apply common sense and reading comprehension.

    I re-read your post in full and my reply stands.

    Not sure it was worth the trouble though and I'm likely better off ignoring you like I do to some other forum bridge-dwelling folk.

    Enjoy!
    Good choice. Now if you had done that in the beginning instead of reacting all drama llama on me, we all coulda had a brighter day.

    As an admission, I have ignored quite a bit of your posts too up until today - mostly because they seem to share a common theme of bite and snarl when you disagree. The upside to this, is that the door swings both ways.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Towerblock; Apr 14th, 2014 at 07:15:00.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

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