Monthly Development Update - 2nd April 2014

[Freor]

One things are the devs who fight to keep the project viable. Another thing is the moment accounting in FC sees a huge sudden decline in numbers. While GD might say "it's a protest, we're working to solve it", they won't gauge the risk and we'll be all over.

That may be the case. Currently we cannot enjoy the game. If it goes down we cannot enjoy the game. Makes no difference.

What was the alternative? Continue trying to reason with them and trying to get attention? For how much longer, 1 month, 2? Another half a year?

Quitting had absolutely nothing at all to do with anyone getting any attention. We don't even have access to any data about quitting or any subscriber numbers at all, so there's no way we could know about anything happening unless someone higher up told us (and they didn't).

Also, again, the policy on the subject of this "protest" has been clearly stated from the beginning, and also again, is not decided by us.

Fair enough. May it be a lucky coincidence then. Gotta remember to fill the lottery In any case, I'm glad there's at least a conversation going on now. Even if customers are asking something you don't want/cannot do, it's much better to at least listen/talk than outright ignore them. Goes for the remaining playerbase as well, boxing wasn't/isn't the only problem the game has.

[Sephiroth56]

Remind me never to hire you to program anything for me.

There's a big difference between quality control and introducing bugs in the first place. Programmers will forever introduce bugs. If you do test-first development, then maybe you'll catch more of them. Even with quality control taking 3 times longer than actual development, you'll still only eliminate more bugs, but you will never catch them all. While the Pokémon slogan also works for development bugs, you sadly will never catch them all. If you think otherwise, I'd never wish to program for you, anyway. That's why I said "If you had any experience programming", since you'd then have the imagination to understand why these things can happen, and why it's unpleasant to call incompetence due to such a thing.

[Raelil]

You are missing that people exploit it. There is no viable way of solving the exploit issue, so now you can only do one pvp daily mission per day. To maintain the interest focused on battlestation and tarasque (which is the only "real pvp daily missions" in my opinion), I decided to nerf the rewards on the other missions that takes a few minutes to complete and rarely involves any pvp at all... I don't expect anyone to be extremely happy about this change, but it was the only way I could prevent the exploit and still encourage players to do the "real pvp missions" over the ones which are not without inflating the daily mission rewards further.

I understand why you did it, and aslong as its possible to still get VP's without getting involved in PvP, im quite okay with it. I never much liked having the whole PvP thing being pulled over my head as to get some parts of a game, as PvP in my book usually involves nasty flaming kids with too much spare time and a too big of a mouth for their own good.

This is the best choice i think, since people enjoying PvP will get more for the pvp dailies and us other mortals can still get some dips on the VP

[Gunforhire]

Remind me never to hire you to program anything for me.


Deadband and fundamental quality control have nothing to do with one another. If you believe that programmers have no part in QC see my comment above.

How much programming do you actually do? It is easy to bluntly criticize without giving any legitimate argument to prove it much like "you are wrong because I say so".

BTW it looks like your definition of quality control is that every one is involved in it which is true, however in most cases there are actually people, programs, or departments that only do that function after the programmers do their job.

In my job we produce a product and are involved in quality control to make the product with no defects. Quality control checks the items to see if any have gotten past production to makes sure the rest are caught that production may have missed. This still does not stop the occasional item making it past both and getting to the consumer. My point is errors will always happen and a majority will get caught but nobody is perfect (including you)and mistakes will be made.

BTW I wouldn't want you as a customer. You are apparently of the mind set that you don't make mistakes and any one who does is obviously an idiot.

[Pennypacker]

I think the biggest problem regarding said error, is that there has been nothing done to limit the damage it did after they fixed it.

[Gunforhire]

On a positive note, new update in approximately 6 days

[Psikie]

You are missing that people exploit it. There is no viable way of solving the exploit issue, so now you can only do one pvp daily mission per day. To maintain the interest focused on battlestation and tarasque (which is the only "real pvp daily missions" in my opinion), I decided to nerf the rewards on the other missions that takes a few minutes to complete and rarely involves any pvp at all...

I think it should be the opposite. BS should not give xp/tokens, but only vp's up to 3x. Other missions should still give xp//tokens.

Unless you plan to take away the elite dailies pvp missions also because those are very similar to the barkeeper daily that rarely involves much pvp. Or even the daily mission "shop lifter" that actually flags you but rarely involves pvp.

Don't drag the pvm crowd into the BS, let the pvp crowd farm titles off each other not greenies trying to lvl.

[Pennypacker]

Also, again, the policy on the subject of this "protest" has been clearly stated from the beginning, and also again, is not decided by us.

Can everyone please stop calling it a protest, it's not, it's a bunch of people tired of the game quitting. There is no protest, it's just not fun for a lot of people any more.

By all means, do what you will with the game.

Oh, and despite tnet's greatness, we can't actually cancel everyone elses accounts to "protest". It's a decision made by the individual player given the information that alot of other people they enjoyed to play with, will no longer play.

[Gunforhire]

I think it should be the opposite. BS should not give xp/tokens, but only vp's up to 3x. Other missions should still give xp//tokens.

Unless you plan to take away the elite dailies pvp missions also because those are very similar to the barkeeper daily that rarely involves much pvp. Or even the daily mission "shop lifter" that actually flags you but rarely involves pvp.

Don't drag the pvm crowd into the BS, let the pvp crowd farm titles off each other not greenies trying to lvl.

I agree forcing the PVM'ers into BS to do PVP as the only option to get xp/tokens is not a good idea. PVP was an afterthought for this game anyway due to a GM who wanted it. It was never part of the original AO. Please don't think that forcing people to do PVP is going to work. I don't do BS now and this isn't going to make me do either. You still won't have a flood of people going to BS but you will have many people upset that they can't get xp/tokens in the way they are used to.

[Pennypacker]

I agree forcing the PVM'ers into BS to do PVP as the only option to get xp/tokens is not a good idea. PVP was an afterthought for this game anyway due to a GM who wanted it. It was never part of the original AO. Please don't think that forcing people to do PVP is going to work.

Noone is forcing anyone, if you want XP/SK there is other ways than BS daily.

[Gunforhire]

Noone is forcing anyone, if you want XP/SK there is other ways than BS daily.

Here is what Genele said:
"I decided to nerf the rewards on the other missions that takes a few minutes to complete and rarely involves any pvp at all... I don't expect anyone to be extremely happy about this change

Then she said:
"to encourage players to do the "real pvp missions" over the ones which are not without inflating the daily mission rewards further."

She just used encourgage not force but still the same result.

[Phatkeep]

"Advanced Jobe Suit Helmet now displays on Solitus Male Characters."

That one totally fixes the game. Bravo! How many hundred hours did you spend on fixing that one?

[Phatkeep]

Quitting had absolutely nothing at all to do with anyone getting any attention. We don't even have access to any data about quitting or any subscriber numbers at all, so there's no way we could know about anything happening unless someone higher up told us (and they didn't).

Maybe that's a problem.

Also, again, the policy on the subject of this "protest" has been clearly stated from the beginning, and also again, is not decided by us.

There's certainly been many "protests" earlier. But as someone already stated, that's not what this is. Your inactions simply made the game unplayable for some of us.

We've told you many times before, for instance when Orbital Strike was introduced that it would have a severely negative effect on Notum Wars. And we were proven correct. It was unfortunate that it took FC nearly three years before pride was swallowed and the whole thing was fixed. Now we are telling you again and again you refuse to listen. Some of us don't simply intend to stick around another three years for you to figure it out. Do you understand that now?

Happy trails.

[Sephiroth56]

Can everyone please stop calling it a protest, it's not, it's a bunch of people tired of the game quitting. There is no protest, it's just not fun for a lot of people any more.

By all means, do what you will with the game.

Oh, and despite tnet's greatness, we can't actually cancel everyone elses accounts to "protest". It's a decision made by the individual player given the information that alot of other people they enjoyed to play with, will no longer play.

There's most certainly been a protest. I'm sure there are legitimate quits due to the situation, which are not the ones I was referring to earlier. But there's most definitely been a protest. I just wanted to point out how it's probably not the way to go about voicing our concerns. If you quit because you quit, then no one would hold it against you. If you quit to make a point in hope you can return later when it is fixed, then you're likely putting the thing you want to be improved in jeopardy.

In my view.

[Psikie]

Noone is forcing anyone, if you want XP/SK there is other ways than BS daily.

BS should be about pvp not gaining xp pvm. This is an attempt to "encourage" pvm players to go to BS for pvp. If pvm players wanted pvp they would already be going there for 3x rewards INSTEAD of doing miner/'tower tag missions.

The pvm players are giving up on a triple reward because they do not want to deal with the pvp crowd that would abuse and harass them or heaven forbid tease for not being equiped properly once open inspect is live.

This is not going to end well for the casual player.

[Grandpa]

You are missing that people exploit it. There is no viable way of solving the exploit issue, so now you can only do one pvp daily mission per day. To maintain the interest focused on battlestation and tarasque (which is the only "real pvp daily missions" in my opinion), I decided to nerf the rewards on the other missions that takes a few minutes to complete and rarely involves any pvp at all... I don't expect anyone to be extremely happy about this change, but it was the only way I could prevent the exploit and still encourage players to do the "real pvp missions" over the ones which are not without inflating the daily mission rewards further.

Ok, doing tower daily is an exploit because we get tokens without pvp.

Until last month, there was a guy selling $1700 worth of token packages on the GMI.

Are you sure you are focused on the correct exploit?

Quitting had absolutely nothing at all to do with anyone getting any attention. We don't even have access to any data about quitting or any subscriber numbers at all, so there's no way we could know about anything happening unless someone higher up told us (and they didn't).

Also, again, the policy on the subject of this "protest" has been clearly stated from the beginning, and also again, is not decided by us.

If your superiors didn't tell you and you have no access to the data:

a) how did you know that there was a "quitting protest" in the first place, and
b) why did you come to the forums to say that it has no effect?

[Macrosun]

If your superiors didn't tell you and you have no access to the data:

a) how did you know that there was a "quitting protest" in the first place, and
b) why did you come to the forums to say that it has no effect?

a) because of the bazillion threads that said so.
b) because of a).

[DigitalBath]

If your superiors didn't tell you and you have no access to the data:

a) how did you know that there was a "quitting protest" in the first place, and
b) why did you come to the forums to say that it has no effect?

I'm not macrosun, obviously, but the post in which he first mentioned that was mostly on a different subject and had that as a sidelines reply to someone.

This later reply was probably because he checks forums now and then.. seems normal. He prolly refrains from posting due to the backlash devs often get here.. which is also pretty normal.

EDIT: damn macrosun beat me to it! usually takes a little longer for him to get here

[Grandpa]

a) because of the bazillion threads that said so.
b) because of a).

a) Ok, you paid attention, thank you for that!

b) Must be your personal opinion, because without data or input from your superiors, you really don't know if quitting has an effect or not.
Is that correct?

Look, I have no beef with you or Genele.
But I suggest you get your bosses to pay attention to the customers before FunCom goes under.

Everything at FC appears to be terribly mismanaged!

[Pennypacker]

There's most certainly been a protest. I'm sure there are legitimate quits due to the situation, which are not the ones I was referring to earlier. But there's most definitely been a protest. I just wanted to point out how it's probably not the way to go about voicing our concerns. If you quit because you quit, then no one would hold it against you. If you quit to make a point in hope you can return later when it is fixed, then you're likely putting the thing you want to be improved in jeopardy.

In my view.

As is clearly shown lately, there is no hope in the thing I want to be improved will be fixed in a timely manner, so it would be a non issue anyway.

And what quit isn't legitimate due to the situation ? Every single person unsubscribing and leaving a note as to why has a legitimate reason to do so. The fact that people got around on a different site chatting their options out and ultimately deciding AO didn't progress the way they wished does not deem it a protest, it's just people quitting over one issue.

And, forums were the way to voice my concerns initially, a year ago or so. Funcom CS decided to leave those concerns as they were and there seemed to be no initiative to fix the underlying problems to that specific issue. Now, after a year, people got tired of trying to get funcom to realize how bad the situation would turn out, and people voice their concerns with their wallets.

And, MB is just the final nail in the coffin ultimately for many of us.