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Thread: Monthly Development Update - 30th April 2014

  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    You can't figure this stuff out on your own or you just want to argue.

    All this not only assumes the multi-boxer is going after a "well organized team" and not just insta ganking people as they pop out of decon or show up at a cap point. It also wrongly assumes that EVRYONE will be able to find and team with an engi at any and all lvl ranges. It also assumes the MB wont just fling/burst to get rid of blockers before killin off your toons with AS.

    The point is and was, that you are advocating xp for pvp. My point is that is not xp worthy or skill worthy and should not be even considered. UNLESS it's for duels where open inspect and visable nanos makes it a choice to engage in pvp under whatever odds and roll the dice on xp reward or loss. Not just giving free xp to Bat Stat gank fests or backyard hopping garbage.
    I'm advocating XP for PvP in the same way it's implemented in hundreds of other games (rather successfully I might add).
    Kills get you minimal amounts of XP with diminishing returns per match.
    Winning/Losing gets you a more substantial amount of XP at the end of the match, winning being, of course, the best rewarded scenario.

    If you SLAUGHTER the enemy team (by any means), you'll run into those diminishing returns quickly and be unable to get more kill XP/VP/Whatever for them.. and both you and the losing side will eventually finish the BS and get your appropriate reward.
    This is a tried and tested formula. It actually works and has literally millions of people pvp'ing for over a decade's worth of data for you to see it working!

    If you're stupid enough to face 4-5 characters alone, you deserve dying in pvp. Dying quickly and stupidly, no excuses there! I sometimes head into PvP BS by myself, but I always make sure to stick with my chosen faction's members rather than go headless chicken mode and chain-die. I also avoid chasing a nice tasty green target only to be lured into a big team formation that was using him as bait.
    You know, basic solo pvp strategy.

    Often I also head into PvP with some friends. Sometimes it includes and engi or trader, often it includes a crat too. I don't get why you'd want to exclusively queue for solo PvP other than to stroke your epeen.. but hey.. whatever makes you feel good!

    Don't try to make this exclusively about multiboxing either. Most PvP matches I have done over the last year have had no multiboxers in them. You're trying to strawman this argument into oblivion and it's not working well for you so far. This is about PvP and team PvP. Not another of your "i hate multiboxing please take it away even if FC and all the other major companies say it's fine" pointless arguments.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    So XP for PvP should be based on skill, while XP for PvM is pretty much about what kind of a tedious grind one can bear (or how many credats you have in the bank to pay that kiting NT) 98% of the time?

    Wanted: XP for PvM that is actually based on skill. Yeah, it is out there but it is in the minority.
    Honestly what I think is that xp in AO is linear process of X = killing Y number of mobs or completing Z task.

    I do not think xp for pvp should be an option at all, but if it were to be then it should be duels. That's all. Not a lucky gank that could cause people to QQ over kill stealing their xp because someone pops up with an AS-alpha while you were fighting another player on BS.

    The skill reference was not my original statement, just a response. You might want to revisit the earlier posts to get a complete understanding.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

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  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    I'm advocating XP for PvP in the same way it's implemented in hundreds of other games (rather successfully I might add).

    You're trying to strawman this argument into oblivion and it's not working well for you so far.
    Again I disagree that pvp for xp is not a good idea. AO is not hundreds of other games that do it successfully. Pvp in AO has been unbalanced since...forever. If the game is slanted to allow yet ANOTHER exploitable situation that is asinine. The game controllers can't handle the known exploits now. Setting up a situation where more exploits are bound to happen makes absolutely no sense to me.

    With all the avaialble ways to get xp I do not even see why this is a discussion, especially since most players don't seriously pvp untill 220 anyway. Except in the cases of 60/150/200 twinks are pretty regular also.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Again I disagree that pvp for xp is not a good idea. AO is not hundreds of other games that do it successfully. Pvp in AO has been unbalanced since...forever. If the game is slanted to allow yet ANOTHER exploitable situation that is asinine. The game controllers can't handle the known exploits now. Setting up a situation where more exploits are bound to happen makes absolutely no sense to me.

    With all the avaialble ways to get xp I do not even see why this is a discussion, especially since most players don't seriously pvp untill 220 anyway. Except in the cases of 60/150/200 twinks are pretty regular also.
    TOP SECRET INFORMATION: Most games with pvp are unbalanced to hell and back, especially in 1v1 PvP (which gave rise to devs switching stances to a "we're balancing around Team PvP" or even just "we balance it for PvE only, the PvP consequences are an afterthought").

    Having more ways of getting XP is good. Grinding to 220 can be a pain and having fun PvP (again: like in other, more successful, games) can be a way of making things easier.

    The issue with "moderating/banning for existing exploits" is important too and should be raised. But that won't stop your main gripe (multiboxing) as it is doable without breaking any rule of the EULA/ToS.. (unlike ClickSaver and AOIA which alter the game's own functions to work and are much more commonly used).

    Still, I'm not going to make this about multiboxing as it's not a major issue. This is about PvP and adding XP in team PvP.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    If the game is slanted to allow yet ANOTHER exploitable situation that is asinine.
    I get what you're saying but the entire game can be considered an exploitable situation, depending on how you wish to view it. Taking advantages of bugs or even weaknesses to excel in a game in a manner not intended by the game designers is exploiting. Look around AO. You think the game designers intended for players to do most of the stuff done when leveling? I don't think so, though the beauty of the concept of an exploit is that it is debatable.. the only people that can make a true call on it are the original designers.

    If the current ao crew stops making improvements out of fear of the worst amongst their playerbase then they might as well just call it quits now.
    Last edited by Traderjill; May 19th, 2014 at 21:03:42.
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  6. #266
    So, just jumping in for bit

    Are you advocating changing the BS to allow a side to select their team? and REQUIRING the BS round to at least have the same number or levels of toons? Some sort of balancing?
    Utopia
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  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    The issue with "moderating/banning for existing exploits" is important too and should be raised. But that won't stop your main gripe (multiboxing) as it is doable without breaking any rule of the EULA/ToS.. (unlike ClickSaver and AOIA which alter the game's own functions to work and are much more commonly used).

    Still, I'm not going to make this about multiboxing as it's not a major issue. This is about PvP and adding XP in team PvP.
    ??? My gripe is not about multi boxing, in fact i dont think i've ever said i disagree with multiboxing or called for players to be banned for multiboxing. MB is not an issue I have a problem with as I do not do high lvl towers as such it does not negatively affect me in anyway. In fact I would say pvm wise MB players actually would help my cause more than hurt it.

    I only highlight an easy way to exploit the suggestion of pvp for xp, which could easily have been said using multi-logging 2-3 toons and just alt-tab. Which could get the same end result.

    I think conceptually it's a bad idea, through the hundreds of threads/posts from new and old players about Bat Station either hunting greenies or title farming or spawn camping. Those negatives would only get highlighted more if you throw in an xp reward. Heck I could even see multi logged 2 toons 1 mech 1 turret or 1 anti personel and 1 anti tank turret, and just spawn/cap point camp for xp. Would be worth a few kills each for easy almost afk xp. Not saying this is an exploit but I am sure you can see how this could get out of hand.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    ??? My gripe is not about multi boxing, in fact i dont think i've ever said i disagree with multiboxing or called for players to be banned for multiboxing. MB is not an issue I have a problem with as I do not do high lvl towers as such it does not negatively affect me in anyway. In fact I would say pvm wise MB players actually would help my cause more than hurt it.

    I only highlight an easy way to exploit the suggestion of pvp for xp, which could easily have been said using multi-logging 2-3 toons and just alt-tab. Which could get the same end result.

    I think conceptually it's a bad idea, through the hundreds of threads/posts from new and old players about Bat Station either hunting greenies or title farming or spawn camping. Those negatives would only get highlighted more if you throw in an xp reward. Heck I could even see multi logged 2 toons 1 mech 1 turret or 1 anti personel and 1 anti tank turret, and just spawn/cap point camp for xp. Would be worth a few kills each for easy almost afk xp. Not saying this is an exploit but I am sure you can see how this could get out of hand.
    You're calling "conceptually a bad idea" to something that's proven to work better than AO's system by every competitor that beat it. I get your point.. but it doesn't stand over time in the industry.

    Furthermore, there are many easy ways to prevent that, including common PvP strategies.
    Nothing can stop a player from trying to do what you've just mentioned as an example, but nothing can stop a dedicated small group of players from countering it, either. (and you're not supposed to be alone in the BS..)

    I get your point about spawn camping, hunting greenies, title farming and whatnot, but that's part of PvP and something you should have in mind when queueing. People who have more experience/resources/whatever may have an advantage.. because they have played more / gathered more resources / whatevered more than you.

    The "why" is irrelevant. PvP is not meant to be 100% fair in MMORPGs, otherwise people would be "normalized" into a set amount of stats, a single spec and two side-neutral teams. Kind of like an FPS!
    This would remove A LOT of the fun in PvP related to discovering how to better kill your friends in it.. which I know not everyone gets.

    Yet again I agree with Traderjill's point. Developers shouldn't fear improving the game and trying to make it more successful out of having a (small) fraction of the player base annoyed by such changes, else the game would just stop evolving and not be worth paying a monthly->yearly sub for.

    PvP Battlestations in AO are still too tied to the Notum Wars. While I get that, the world of gaming evolved since then and a Red vs Blue type system would be better than the current "queue as omni/clan" system. It would shorten queues (as often as-is you have 11 on one side and 3 on the other) and make for a more dynamic PvP experience overall since you would fight a wider range of people.

    XP coming from those matches is a logical development. It doesn't have to be in massive amounts, but enough for dedicated PvP'ers to level by. If you don't want this to be brutally abused you can always have a system where you gain XP rewards in the first X matches of each day, though I personally think that's unnecessary and should logically lead to similar caps in PvE missions (which I'm sure nobody wants).

    Let's help in making AO more fun and more enticing to the few newcomers we get in both PvP and PvE.. that will help us old vets feeling better too.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Yet again I agree with Traderjill's point. Developers shouldn't fear improving the game and trying to make it more successful out of having a (small) fraction of the player base annoyed by such changes, else the game would just stop evolving and not be worth paying a monthly->yearly sub for.
    I agree with Jill also that you don't "stop" development of a game. However I stand by my statement that you don't want "development" to cause additional problems on top of the current problems that already exist.

    There are pages upon pages of game suggestions to known problems, my point is why add "potentially" many more issues when the current issues are not being addressed. You would be adding water to a flood instead of trying to plug the leaks.

    I dare not offer easily exploitable scenerios to this suggestion and get my post deleted but i'm sure given what's already been said it should not be too hard to figure out. THAT is the point, don;t try to create a situation that is easily exploitable when current exploits are hard enough to get policed.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I agree with Jill also that you don't "stop" development of a game. However I stand by my statement that you don't want "development" to cause additional problems on top of the current problems that already exist.

    There are pages upon pages of game suggestions to known problems, my point is why add "potentially" many more issues when the current issues are not being addressed. You would be adding water to a flood instead of trying to plug the leaks.

    I dare not offer easily exploitable scenerios to this suggestion and get my post deleted but i'm sure given what's already been said it should not be too hard to figure out. THAT is the point, don;t try to create a situation that is easily exploitable when current exploits are hard enough to get policed.
    Almost everything is exploitable. Sometimes it's easier to exploit.. sometimes it's harder.
    If we went by your way of doing things, no content would have been added post-AO's release.. and even some things prior.
    Organizations and org banks were exploited.
    GMI and the player shops were exploited.
    PvP was exploited in waaay too many ways.
    Many gear pieces from SL and AI were exploited.

    It's just not the right way to go about it. Exploits have to be handled and problems have to be fixed. But implementing things that are considered "basic features of a MMO in 2014" is necessary as well.

    EDIT:

    For a little context... I'm a patient gamer. I put up with a lot of stuff others don't.
    My younger sister isn't. When she tries out a game she expects to get in, do the basic quests and tutorial bits.. then get some team-action going.
    If she tries a new game out (happened with several until she settled on her current game), she will queue up for PvP battlegrounds/warzones/whatever you call it.. and PvE Dungeons/instances. If she has to wait 5 minutes she assumes something must be wrong with the server/game. If she waits 10 minutes or more, she'll move on to the next game and uninstall because she works 8hrs a day, 6 days a week and she doesn't want to waste her time waiting around in a queue when she should be having fun.

    Though I don't mind the wait myself and I just multitask by watching something on another monitor while I'm on queue.. I understand her point and more importantly acknowledge that gamers nowadays have a pretty high "bar" set for what they expect of a game, even if it's F2P.

    AO still has the means to become competitive. It has a great storyline, great player history, a LOT of PvP fun, a lot of original and interesting PvE moments. It needs to be updated to 2014, though.

    Can it be done? Yep.. it's POSSIBLE.
    Will it be done? I fear the worst as there are likely not enough resources to get things where they should be. We can improve some things (XP in PvP being one of them).. but not everything that should be done.
    Maybe with crowdfunding and a serious player-driven effort.. who knows. But now I'm speculating... so I'll end the post here
    Last edited by DigitalBath; May 19th, 2014 at 23:19:34.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Almost everything is exploitable. Sometimes it's easier to exploit.. sometimes it's harder.
    If we went by your way of doing things, no content would have been added post-AO's release.. and even some things prior.
    Organizations and org banks were exploited.
    GMI and the player shops were exploited.
    PvP was exploited in waaay too many ways.
    Many gear pieces from SL and AI were exploited.
    Those develpoments were not done with exploits expected. They went through a process on test server etc before making it into game and THEN were exploited.

    My point is CURENT game play would expect exploiting of pvp for xp. In fact current game play would setup easily seen exploits is my point. It wouldnt be a surprise when players did x-y-z and now it's an exploit. Players are already doing x-y-z and it would BECOME an "exploit" because xp is involved is where i am tryin to make the point with out gettin my post deleted. I can't really say more that that on the subject but i'm sure if you take off your blinders and take a step back from your stance you can figure it out.

    You don't setup your cust serv or petition handlers for failure by knowingly giving them a nightmare to deal with...and for what? An additional few xp pts to go toward some 220's research? No one is going to rely upon pvp for a steady reliable leveling source. Especially versus hecklers/ pocket teams.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Those develpoments were not done with exploits expected. They went through a process on test server etc before making it into game and THEN were exploited.

    My point is CURENT game play would expect exploiting of pvp for xp. In fact current game play would setup easily seen exploits is my point. It wouldnt be a surprise when players did x-y-z and now it's an exploit. Players are already doing x-y-z and it would BECOME an "exploit" because xp is involved is where i am tryin to make the point with out gettin my post deleted. I can't really say more that that on the subject but i'm sure if you take off your blinders and take a step back from your stance you can figure it out.

    You don't setup your cust serv or petition handlers for failure by knowingly giving them a nightmare to deal with...and for what? An additional few xp pts to go toward some 220's research? No one is going to rely upon pvp for a steady reliable leveling source. Especially versus hecklers/ pocket teams.
    All of those were implemented knowing exploits would be possible.

    Like all of those, XP in PvP would be implemented with safeguards to prevent exploits. Is the implementation going to be perfect? Probably not. But I've given you simple examples to implement it with nearly 0% chance to exploit, as proof of concept.

    If you'd bother to read my posts in full again, you'd see I fully understand your point but fundamentally disagree with it due to the amount of erroneous and incorrect information you use to make it. I'm not the one with the blinders.

    Also, you have to understand there's a huge difference between an unfair situation to some players who can't do PvP with strategy and an exploit (something that intentionally breaks the game's EULA/ToS). It seems you are mixing those two up at some point here.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    But I've given you simple examples to implement it with nearly 0% chance to exploit, as proof of concept.

    (something that intentionally breaks the game's EULA/ToS). It seems you are mixing those two up at some point here.
    Maybe I did not see in your posts how you can prevent 2 players from killing each other off in the 0% bar in mort or walking into a hot tower site to get free xp off each other. I am sure no one can even think of more devious ideas than that.

    Or how to even track a player with 6 accounts getting 5 free xp kills per toon per day playing by themselves. Diminishing returns aside since each toon will get killed at least once anyway.

    I must have missed those 0% chance of exploits prevention methods you have posted somewhere.

    But I tell you what we can agree to disagree that pvp for xp is a good idea.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Again?
    What is so offensive to you about the idea that it will be possible for multiple account holders to, against the rules, farm PVP and hence XP from their alts?

    What if FC does nothing to ban them? So what?

    You don't want rid of all solo-ers because they don't participate in team content, right?

    While I in no way support cheating, I don't understand why you've spent so many pages worrying about the possibilities of this sort of cheater.

    It's not going to be faster XP than Ely Kite/Inf Mish
    Andrew Phillips
    Omni-Reform
    Truth is Power

    Clan Envoy of the Omni Organisation Committee
    Reporter for the Omni-Tek Press Corp

  15. #275
    Wth kiter...er... Wait...wth lots of toons for pvp xp.


    "wait did you just kill me? Better pay me! Or REPORT you for not paying for a service" ^_=
    "Don't think...feel, it's like a finger pointing towards the moon"

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Maybe I did not see in your posts how you can prevent 2 players from killing each other off in the 0% bar in mort or walking into a hot tower site to get free xp off each other. I am sure no one can even think of more devious ideas than that.

    Or how to even track a player with 6 accounts getting 5 free xp kills per toon per day playing by themselves. Diminishing returns aside since each toon will get killed at least once anyway.

    I must have missed those 0% chance of exploits prevention methods you have posted somewhere.

    But I tell you what we can agree to disagree that pvp for xp is a good idea.
    Even if something like this was possible, who exactly would it hurt that some moron could kill his alts somewhere and gain extremely slow xp?

    The xp rate from this kind of activity would be SO LOW that a normal person would loose his/her sanity in a day by doing this. And the other people who'd pvp in the usual way, like doing towers and bs, would gain at least twice as fast xp as the "smart" exploiter who's killing his alts in a corner somewhere...
    Aeliniyah Opifex Doc | Venkula Solitus Doc | Rohtoiivari Trox Doc | Yutheron Solitus Trader Ianamura NM Crat
    Technigyro Trox Enfo | Gizmoplex Trox Keeper | Icarya Opi MA | Vinetto Opifex Shade | Retku Solitus Engineer
    Geraplex Trox Sold | Tuulispaa Opifex Fixer | Wertion Solitus MP | Kemoplex Trox MA
    And a fleet of other alts...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Encyros View Post
    While I in no way support cheating, I don't understand why you've spent so many pages worrying about the possibilities of this sort of cheater.

    It's not going to be faster XP than Ely Kite/Inf Mish
    Honestly I am looking at a bigger picture that goes to intent. If FC is serious about preventing exploits/cheats as the updates state that is the "reason" behind open inspect and visible nanos running. Then there is no reason to create a situation that CURRENT game play would/could be considered exploits with the inclusion of xp. Or very easily turned into exploits i should say.

    So perhaps in a round about way this is a way of calling out FC on their motives for open inspect and visible nanos running. You can't say you are trying to fix or eliminate exploits if you purposely create scenerios for new ones.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Honestly I am looking at a bigger picture that goes to intent. If FC is serious about preventing exploits/cheats as the updates state that is the "reason" behind open inspect and visible nanos running. Then there is no reason to create a situation that CURRENT game play would/could be considered exploits with the inclusion of xp. Or very easily turned into exploits i should say.

    So perhaps in a round about way this is a way of calling out FC on their motives for open inspect and visible nanos running. You can't say you are trying to fix or eliminate exploits if you purposely create scenerios for new ones.
    Mhm. I imagine visible nanos genuinely is to level the playing field since FC obviously has no intention of banning people just for running a GUI that shows this. So we'll all have this feature in future.

    Open Inspect, I agree with you. Exploit spotting will not be the main use of this.

    On both counts, it was probably a PR mistake to make a declaration of intent. It would have been better communication strategy to announce the changes and stay silent on motives for players to decide for themselves.

    There is a danger of turning players overly much into vigilante developing consultants by sharing philosophy.
    Andrew Phillips
    Omni-Reform
    Truth is Power

    Clan Envoy of the Omni Organisation Committee
    Reporter for the Omni-Tek Press Corp

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Maybe I did not see in your posts how you can prevent 2 players from killing each other off in the 0% bar in mort or walking into a hot tower site to get free xp off each other. I am sure no one can even think of more devious ideas than that.

    Or how to even track a player with 6 accounts getting 5 free xp kills per toon per day playing by themselves. Diminishing returns aside since each toon will get killed at least once anyway.

    I must have missed those 0% chance of exploits prevention methods you have posted somewhere.

    But I tell you what we can agree to disagree that pvp for xp is a good idea.
    I don't think you understood my idea. Only a complete moron would try getting levels of XP by killing. It's just a small cherry on top. A level should take upwards of 20000 kills to get.

    The actual XP on PvP that would be visible (though still very small.. 2-3% xp of a level given AO's hardcore nature.. 5% at most!) is the XP for Winning a Battlestation. Losing one would give you even less.

    If you add the diminishing returns to this basic logic (that's already present in almost every other MMO) you'll understand why your concerns aren't really something to consider when implementing XP in PvP.
    It would take a VERY dedicated PvP'er (maybe even too dedicated) to get a level through PvP alone. It's not going to replace any other forms of leveling, especially not paying a NT to do it, which sadly is the #1 at the moment by FAR.

    It's simply adapting to the 2014 MMO market. My % numbers may be off somewhat but I'm sure that a balance can be reached so that it simply can't be abused and is simply seen as a "side-effect" of PvP, like on many other games!

    If the "evil multiboxer dude" got 5 kills on each character and won 5 matches in one day (let's make that a cap for the XP rewards if you think it can be abused too...), he'd get a grand total of ~15% of a level with his efforts.
    You get far more than that with almost any other alternative in the game, some of which allow you to be afk through it all!

    I hope I am being clear enough, now, as to how hard it would be to abuse this system. It's not just because of a technical difficulty.. it's just that the limitations of it are clear and simply and don't allow for much gain from abusing it.
    You could even raise it to 5% per battleground won (max of 5 victories applies) and it still wouldn't be better or easier than getting your 6-man multiboxing and running inferno missions with it!

    If you don't play other successful MMORPG titles it's likely that a lot of this is new to you.. so if you need any clarification I'll be glad to get the info for you. It's worth it, for AO's sake.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    I don't think you understood my idea.
    Yea you seem to just want to argue. Maybe you should read the last few posts, for me it has absolutely nothing to do with MB. You are still stuck on trying to argue why xp from pvp is such a small deal with diminishing returns etc that you make it sound like it isn't worth having in the first place lol.

    But that isn't even the point, you can't seem to grasp the big picture as to exploits or exploit prevention that I was making.

    It's called a "trap" arguement. Meant to trap someone into a line of questions and statements that invalidates a previous arguement or statement. It's a technique used by lawyers and law enforcement agents during cross examinations or interogations.

    The trap wasn't set for you but you seemed to fall into it none the less. 15% of a level is as good as a daily mission for even less effort, thanks for that math btw.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

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