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Thread: Monthly Development Update - 30th April 2014

  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Yea you seem to just want to argue. Maybe you should read the last few posts, for me it has absolutely nothing to do with MB. You are still stuck on trying to argue why xp from pvp is such a small deal with diminishing returns etc that you make it sound like it isn't worth having in the first place lol.

    But that isn't even the point, you can't seem to grasp the big picture as to exploits or exploit prevention that I was making.

    It's called a "trap" arguement. Meant to trap someone into a line of questions and statements that invalidates a previous arguement or statement. It's a technique used by lawyers and law enforcement agents during cross examinations or interogations.

    The trap wasn't set for you but you seemed to fall into it none the less. 15% of a level is as good as a daily mission for even less effort, thanks for that math btw.
    XP in PvP is worth implementing to adapt AO into 2014's MMO standards. Not as an alternative path to leveling.

    Less effort? 5 BG victories vs 1 daily (those give 10% max iirc..)? You have to be joking.

    As for your "trap" and whatever.. I'm gonna call BS on that. It sounds like you wanted to make a point, got railed by pretty much everyone on this thread for being misinformed and you're now trying to save face since you have no real argument for why XP in PvP should not implemented in the way I and others have mentioned several times. (a way that has proven success, too).

    Something tells me you're a hopeless case.. so if you bother replying I'll just do what I should have done.. ignore the ignorant.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; May 20th, 2014 at 21:30:31.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
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    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
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    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
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    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    As for your "trap" and whatever.. I'm gonna call BS on that. It sounds like you wanted to make a point, got railed by pretty much everyone on this thread for being misinformed and you're now trying to save face since you have no real argument for why XP in PvP should not implemented in the way I and others have mentioned several times. (a way that has proven success, too).
    Wow you got me pegged there. I think I mentioned plenty of times it shouldn't be implemented because it is exploitable. I don't think I need any other reasons. So my point was pvp for xp can be exploited. Period. I also think I have made that point, so much so that you spent pages agreeing with that but trying to suggest that it is such an insignificant amount of xp it wouldn't be worth it.

    The point again, had nothing to do with MB's that you refered to countless times. It had nothing to do with the amount of xp either, something I never mentioned. It was, is, and has always been about the fact that it can be exploited. Since i had to prematurely show my hand and explain that FC's logic about exploits if it is to be believed should prevent them from patching in an obvious exploitable situation regardeless of how small or large the exploit can be abused. That is easy to verify by reading my posts now that the reason behind them has been bluntly stated.

    The fact that you have resorted to insults might say more to whom maybe be hopeless in an honest debate. Sounds more like an attempt to save face on your part maam/sir. Now I don't recall any "good reasons" you have had to suggest pvp for xp is a good idea for AO other than...Other games do it well lol.

    AO, last time I checked isn't other games.
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  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    The biggest problem I have with changing this is that it would make a lot of players angry. No matter how much time we spend on making Shadowlands the best leveling experience in the history of the gaming, it can't compare to sitting on your a** and doing nothing while someone else levels you.
    yes it can,
    create better alternatives to kite hill instead of nerfing it, where you get comparable amount of xp and maybe some tokens on the side? maybe some axp? or u can introduce missions with lifted research caps? possibilities are limitless.

    if you think comparable xp to kiting is too much xp to give as a reward, think again. this game is 12 years old, look at what other mmos do, levelling should not be a long grind in a game this old anymore, heck it shldnt have been a long grind 5 years ago.

    you also seem to have the idea that sitting at kite hill is enjoyable or preferable to people. it is not. it is boring, uninvolved and u dont get a sense of character progression. people do it simply because there is no alternative. beacuse as i said, other alternatives are way slower than a gam this old can handle. so make the new missions you introduce so that people cant slap on a medsuit and not look back till theyre tl7, make them involved, force people to know their characters and keep them up to date, incentivise teamplay, as long as the benefit is higher than kite hill, they'll do it, and itll be much more enjoyable to start a new toon again.

    dailies are not the solution for 2 reasons:
    1. they are only avaible once every 18hours.
    2. they dont encourage teaming, people still do them with the aid of their mains in their medsuits.
    Last edited by EmperorOfMAnkind; May 21st, 2014 at 10:38:31.
    The vanity of others runs counter to our taste only when it runs counter to our vanity.

  4. #284
    @ above.


    No, no no no. Seriously, no! Its been scientific proven that in MMORPG games fast paced game and leveling destroys community - players when elveling too fast may not have chance to make friends with other due outleveling them in few hours if their friends are offline ect. There are many reasonable arguments to not rush leveling in standard mode gaming. Kiting was, is, and will be huge problem in AO and making any Alternative to it is nonsense. It should be gone in first place.

    On the other hand, from my pov:

    If I want to level character, and I will be able to do it by BS (and BS only!) i will gladly finish off my twinking stages in BS then sitting useles on KH without gaining experience/knowledge of my foes at certain range, where I am aiming my twink at.


    Worst part in lat 5 years of my game experience was this:

    I level in regular manner my twink, from 0 to 100 or 150 or 200 (killing hecks, missions, dailies) and then I need to do research or get last few levels. Then I want to test setups I wanted to use and I am in BS to do that - sometimes its 30-40hrs (avarge 1200-1500kills in medium crowded BS), and its all BEFORE twinking. So, I am there and except knowing what-to-use-when, I get nothing and Still i need do drag my char to inf and dual log to play another 50-60 hours alone (!). Last time I did it I quited game, seriously. 1 time is okay, 2 times is.. roar, 3 times is "Ican do it" and 4th... I would gladly stay on BS if my character would gain experience there. Plus - oposing force would gain 1 player to fight versous!
    I like PvP
    TL6: Tereshkova 200 eng / Patrollerz 200 sol / Tankietka 200 NM enf / Pielegniarka 200 Tank Doc / Oleska 200 SOLIKeep
    TL5: Miazga 150 sol / Piknababa 150 NM Enf 2he / Gigantika 150 NM Enf / Malutki 150 Enf Trox WIP
    TL4: Ladyrazor 112 fixer (retired) / Shha 100 NT / Cycolina lvl 100 NM Enforcer
    + Tons of other chars...
    I make weird TwInkz!
    Signature updated: 29/06/2016

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Pomidor View Post
    [...] Its been scientific proven that in MMORPG games fast paced game and leveling destroys community [...]
    Got a link to that?
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  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Pomidor View Post
    @ above.


    No, no no no. Seriously, no! Its been scientific proven that in MMORPG games fast paced game and leveling destroys community - players when elveling too fast may not have chance to make friends with other due outleveling them in few hours if their friends are offline ect. There are many reasonable arguments to not rush leveling in standard mode gaming. Kiting was, is, and will be huge problem in AO and making any Alternative to it is nonsense. It should be gone in first place.

    On the other hand, from my pov:

    If I want to level character, and I will be able to do it by BS (and BS only!) i will gladly finish off my twinking stages in BS then sitting useles on KH without gaining experience/knowledge of my foes at certain range, where I am aiming my twink at.


    Worst part in lat 5 years of my game experience was this:

    I level in regular manner my twink, from 0 to 100 or 150 or 200 (killing hecks, missions, dailies) and then I need to do research or get last few levels. Then I want to test setups I wanted to use and I am in BS to do that - sometimes its 30-40hrs (avarge 1200-1500kills in medium crowded BS), and its all BEFORE twinking. So, I am there and except knowing what-to-use-when, I get nothing and Still i need do drag my char to inf and dual log to play another 50-60 hours alone (!). Last time I did it I quited game, seriously. 1 time is okay, 2 times is.. roar, 3 times is "Ican do it" and 4th... I would gladly stay on BS if my character would gain experience there. Plus - oposing force would gain 1 player to fight versous!
    Given your dedication to PvP and those long hours of BS, you'd get a significant amount of XP from your PvP'ing. That's why I meant it should be implemented as it was in many other games..
    Most people won't be able to use it as an alternative to kiting/inf missions.. but dedicated PvP'ers who are making twinks will welcome it as a way to gain XP/Research.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Pomidor View Post
    No, no no no. Seriously, no! Its been scientific proven that in MMORPG games fast paced game and leveling destroys community
    this is only true for the first few years of the said game (if that). after that slow pace does more harm than the other way around, because people get sick of the process and quit, its better to have friends a couple levels higher than you than no friends at all.

    and considering genele's post saying they will not remove/nerf kiting, introducing an alternative to that with higher benefits that ENCOURAGES team play and proper character progression will improve every1s leveling experience.

    and there are more than one way to do this, the new missions are a good chance to do it for tl5+, they can add another team mission-type thing to rk for lower levels, they can buff both the difficulty level and rewards of dungeons (not just a simple xp buff), they can make most sl quests so that you cant get outside help to do them so you have to either keep your toon up to date and/or team up with others, sl statics can be heavily upgraded as well. the list goes on and on
    The vanity of others runs counter to our taste only when it runs counter to our vanity.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Stillian View Post
    Got a link to that?
    no, I dont - but it floated here, on forums, around 2-3 years ago.

    Well, current state of game doesn't need slow pacing because only veterans are left here. But "if" they plan to revieve game with new startup area, steam advertising, and actually new life with new playerbase, those things should be looked into.
    I like PvP
    TL6: Tereshkova 200 eng / Patrollerz 200 sol / Tankietka 200 NM enf / Pielegniarka 200 Tank Doc / Oleska 200 SOLIKeep
    TL5: Miazga 150 sol / Piknababa 150 NM Enf 2he / Gigantika 150 NM Enf / Malutki 150 Enf Trox WIP
    TL4: Ladyrazor 112 fixer (retired) / Shha 100 NT / Cycolina lvl 100 NM Enforcer
    + Tons of other chars...
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  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Pomidor View Post
    No, no no no. Seriously, no! Its been scientific proven that in MMORPG games fast paced game and leveling destroys community
    What science is that, bullshysics ?

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    What science is that, bullshysics ?
    lol. If nothing else, AO players are good for one liners on the forums.
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  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    lol. If nothing else, AO players are good for one liners on the forums.

    started with comic-strips with a plot and a punchline ... Today its just one-liners


    As far as nerfing heckler kiting . . . Can only provide something new/easier that doesn't allow OST'ing. Like new improved rk team mishs with new and improved gear rewards and xp tiers.Make low-level raids that doesn't require super twinks, just a collaboration of tank/heals/dps or 3-5x dps. Make all gear that drops in raids nodrop/unique and only lootable if present when boss dies. Players don't mind fun content if its worth doing .(Preferably not a one room/mob wonder)

    Only after you get a viable alternative in place and widely popular... Nerf hecklers. Maybe give aoe nukes a mob cap of like 8 max mobs nuked , not infinite.
    Last edited by lunarsolace; May 21st, 2014 at 23:53:07.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    lol. If nothing else, AO players are good for one liners on the forums.
    Monorail puns often make for good one-liners.

  13. #293
    I dont think its possible to eliminate OST. Either from Doc CH, or just using agg tools or agg nanos that do not do dmg will still aggro grey mobs anyway.

    Nerf on heckler xp, again not really a solution as readily available substitutes such as sided mobs or spirits are readily available to cap xp in most lvl ranges and do not run when grey also. They are just not as convienant to gather.

    ***Edit I do not think the xp is really a problem honestly, my latest toon I went from 1-200 in about 2weeks casual play from dailies and teams here and there. With ely kite team would have been maybe 2-3days to bust 160 and then hit inf for another 1-2 days to pop 201***

    It's not better just faster, and with addition of heckler juice for pay to win mode... again OST are not really an issue imo. At this point the only reason to nerf hecklers xp would be a move by FC to make players pay for item shop heckler juice.
    Last edited by Psikie; May 22nd, 2014 at 01:19:28.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

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    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

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  14. #294
    grey mobs are hecks, which actualy agroing tank - and there is almost NONE mobs in SL which agro when they are gray (hecks - those I know).
    I like PvP
    TL6: Tereshkova 200 eng / Patrollerz 200 sol / Tankietka 200 NM enf / Pielegniarka 200 Tank Doc / Oleska 200 SOLIKeep
    TL5: Miazga 150 sol / Piknababa 150 NM Enf 2he / Gigantika 150 NM Enf / Malutki 150 Enf Trox WIP
    TL4: Ladyrazor 112 fixer (retired) / Shha 100 NT / Cycolina lvl 100 NM Enforcer
    + Tons of other chars...
    I make weird TwInkz!
    Signature updated: 29/06/2016

  15. #295
    Hecklers, sided mobs- unredeemed and redeemed, as well as spirits all aggro when grey. Also any boss mobs also. A few others depending on the zone, shadows, cats, and chimeras, in some zones will fight if attacked when grey, but not social aggro. Also I think some rafters, malahs, and dryads might also depending on zone.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by lunarsolace View Post
    started with comic-strips with a plot and a punchline ... Today its just one-liners


    As far as nerfing heckler kiting . . . Can only provide something new/easier that doesn't allow OST'ing. Like new improved rk team mishs with new and improved gear rewards and xp tiers.Make low-level raids that doesn't require super twinks, just a collaboration of tank/heals/dps or 3-5x dps. Make all gear that drops in raids nodrop/unique and only lootable if present when boss dies. Players don't mind fun content if its worth doing .(Preferably not a one room/mob wonder)

    Only after you get a viable alternative in place and widely popular... Nerf hecklers. Maybe give aoe nukes a mob cap of like 8 max mobs nuked , not infinite.
    Bump this.
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  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by lunarsolace View Post
    Make all gear that drops in raids nodrop/unique and only lootable if present when boss dies.
    Kinda sucks for the enfo/doc that takes one for the team, but too bad so sad to them for dying right?
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by lunarsolace View Post
    started with comic-strips with a plot and a punchline ... Today its just one-liners


    As far as nerfing heckler kiting . . . Can only provide something new/easier that doesn't allow OST'ing. Like new improved rk team mishs with new and improved gear rewards and xp tiers.Make low-level raids that doesn't require super twinks, just a collaboration of tank/heals/dps or 3-5x dps. Make all gear that drops in raids nodrop/unique and only lootable if present when boss dies. Players don't mind fun content if its worth doing .(Preferably not a one room/mob wonder)

    Only after you get a viable alternative in place and widely popular... Nerf hecklers. Maybe give aoe nukes a mob cap of like 8 max mobs nuked , not infinite.
    This, Just sounds awesome... just please use a little common sense Funcom, make some changes don't be scared, let's move in the right direction and fix long overdue areas of the game that are abused or are forgotten.
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  19. #299
    ways to kill selling lootrights (none of it is surefire tho)
    1. you should be in team when the boss dies.
    2. you should be in team when the boss is first aggro'd.
    3. dont allow players to loot if they joined team after the boss died.
    4. loot should rot quicker, maybe 3-5m instead of 25-30.

    people will still find ways to sell loot, they will even sell the spot in team. but these would still help force people to actively play their characters.
    Last edited by EmperorOfMAnkind; May 22nd, 2014 at 12:23:19.
    The vanity of others runs counter to our taste only when it runs counter to our vanity.

  20. #300
    Here's an idea give everyone present for Tara daily like XP/VP. give the mission 8hour lock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

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