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Thread: Monthly Development Update - 30th April 2014

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    Short story: There is no sensible way I can make sure that you don't complete them at the same time. The way these missions are played, was not how it was designed or intended to be played. Completing the Battlestation 1 time per day should not hand you 3 rewards at the same time.
    I always felt this way...however for the love of Jobe don't remove xp from notum miner or tower tag xp rewards. You would be punishing pvm players by doing so.
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  2. #82

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I always felt this way...however for the love of Jobe don't remove xp from notum miner or tower tag xp rewards. You would be punishing pvm players by doing so.
    Lets be brutally honest here: PVP missions from the neutral "secret" bar in Borealis were meant to be pvp missions. Sadly, most of these missions aren't even close to being pvp and doesn't encourage pvp. You can tab towers in a tower field without pvping. I have had players yelling at me when I attacked them in the notum miner area, which was designed to be a pvp area.
    I'm sorry but to earn a significant reward for doing pvp, I feel that you should pvp. The xp reward on pvp missions were added to help pvpers level, not pvmers. I'm not punishing pvmers any more than I am punishing pvpers by having them do pvm content to level.

    Doing a battlestation round to get the maximum reward for a pvp daily is not a punishment. I have pvped with plenty of completely gimped characters in the battlestation. You can still be of use if you play smart, cap points and mech up when it gets too rough. If you don't care about pvp ranks and reputation, does it really matter if you die a few times? I mean you don't even get resurrection sickness in the battlestations.
    Last edited by Genele; May 1st, 2014 at 19:42:14.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    Lets be brutally honest here: PVP missions from the neutral "secret" bar in Borealis were meant to be pvp missions. Sadly, most of these missions aren't even close to being pvp and doesn't encourage pvp.
    Fair enough, I understand. But froobs (red headed step children) would be left out on those alternative mission types because without xp, they literally would get zero reward (vp's only).

    Would it be too much of a stretch for those new team instanced SL missions to drop some usefull loot? Maybe something along the lines of how collector drops nodrop boxes 1 per team mate? The xp leveling is not really the problem but aquiring usefull gear is imo. Maybe level appropriate MIY's or armor similar to nonpartisan for all classes? Perhaps symbiants and nanos that are shop buyable/dungeon chest randoms. Perhaps even sl unred/red weapons and glyphs. Not game breaking but usefull.
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  4. #84
    My memory could be failing me so my apologies if I'm remembering wrong...

    The token board mission (i.e. the one Clans get from OA Hill) could probably use a review in terms of xp reward. I know you get a decent dose of tokens but iirc you don't really get much xp from those at all. Some of those aren't a big deal but at least the last part (that requires you to loot the briefcase item) probably warrant a 'daily style' dose of xp love.

    Seems like everytime I do that last piece of the quest I end up engaging in PvP due to where the mob you have to kill is located.
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    Lets be brutally honest here: PVP missions from the neutral "secret" bar in Borealis were meant to be pvp missions. Sadly, most of these missions aren't even close to being pvp and doesn't encourage pvp. You can tab towers in a tower field without pvping. I have had players yelling at me when I attacked them in the notum miner area, which was designed to be a pvp area.
    I'm sorry but to earn a significant reward for doing pvp, I feel that you should pvp. The xp reward on pvp missions were added to help pvpers level, not pvmers. I'm not punishing pvmers any more than I am punishing pvpers by having them do pvm content to level.

    Doing a battlestation round to get the maximum reward for a pvp daily is not a punishment. I have pvped with plenty of completely gimped characters in the battlestation. You can still be of use if you play smart, cap points and mech up when it gets too rough. If you don't care about pvp ranks and reputation, does it really matter if you die a few times? I mean you don't even get resurrection sickness in the battlestations.
    I repeat my question once more.

    Froobs are the only influx of new players (and your potential new customers) in AO.
    Froobs can currently do the "tower tab" and "notum miner" missions.
    Froobs get the xp and token rewards, but not the VP.

    Once you remove XP and tokens, will you

    a) disable the missions for froobs altogether?
    b) enable froobs to receive VP and allow them to use the points?
    c) or make them find out the hard way that these missions are suddenly pointless for them?
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  6. #86
    wot no more xp from bs daily? no more alts for me :P

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    wot no more xp from bs daily? no more alts for me :P
    No more xp from the notum miner and the tower tagging dailies.
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  8. #88
    it is just never a good idea to put something super easy and rewarding in, and then taking it out. The psychological ramifications are terrible. Sure, rationally it makes sense as it should not have been there in the first place. But I'm sure the emo rage won't be small on making a 30 second mission that gave a daily xp bonus disappear. It is a daily, so it keeps people coming back. Frankly, when I first saw it I was apalled at how non pvp and easy it was for the reward. But then it had the effect of, hey Im gonna log on for 2 mins just to get the daily really quick, and 2 hours later still logged on. It is the step in the door effect.

    Obviously having it have the same reward as BS will take too many people away from BS now that it is not giving 3x reward, but neutering it completely is not going to go over well. Maybe have both? =)

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    Lets be brutally honest here: PVP missions from the neutral "secret" bar in Borealis were meant to be pvp missions. Sadly, most of these missions aren't even close to being pvp and doesn't encourage pvp. You can tab towers in a tower field without pvping. I have had players yelling at me when I attacked them in the notum miner area, which was designed to be a pvp area.
    I'm sorry but to earn a significant reward for doing pvp, I feel that you should pvp. The xp reward on pvp missions were added to help pvpers level, not pvmers. I'm not punishing pvmers any more than I am punishing pvpers by having them do pvm content to level.

    Doing a battlestation round to get the maximum reward for a pvp daily is not a punishment. I have pvped with plenty of completely gimped characters in the battlestation. You can still be of use if you play smart, cap points and mech up when it gets too rough. If you don't care about pvp ranks and reputation, does it really matter if you die a few times? I mean you don't even get resurrection sickness in the battlestations.
    Get real here. Whatever it may have ended up as, AO was not designed as a PVP game. A very significant part of those who play it DONT WANT TO PVP. That is why you get players yelling at you in notum miners' area. I mean isn't it obvious that if that area fulfilled its original purpose it wouldn't be empty?

    For the average player AO is a horrible grind nowadays. You don't need to nerf things more to get your $$ out of people.

    In this particular case i couldn't give a damn about xp, sk or anything else. But your attitude regarding PvM and PvP is way off. Of course PvPers have to do PvM that's the way the game was designed. And you know what, a lot of people really dont like to PvP, its not about smart, meching up or anything else, some people DON'T ENJOY IT!

    Hey, you get to decide, but personally I think for your position, in regard to how players feel about PvP your attitude is poor.
    stuff

  10. #90
    I see now we are dead set on pissing off our remaining froob players. I guess we can except another 25%+ drop in population over these xp changes.

    I now the poll was rigged with sl mission being put in on purpose instead of RK mission being an option, most of us posters here and players in game know fixing RK would offer much more robust options for player teaming. Segregation of our population hasn't worked since sl came out now we will continue with useless changes and changes that will piss off and force more to quit while ignoring the viable logical options.

    What other failed decisions can we make now....
    What should we expect next ofab armor/weapons items having a pvp stat attached to them like resilience or morale to make them pvp only??

  11. #91
    New xp mission in inferno?

    Why inferno over Ely, Scheol, Ado, or Penum? The level ranges that could actually use a new repeatable xp mission.

    What are you guys thinking?

    Just take that new inferno instance, open it in mspaint or whatever you guys use, and reskin it to be watery blue and stick it in Ado.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    And you know what, a lot of people really dont like to PvP, its not about smart, meching up or anything else, some people DON'T ENJOY IT!

    Hey, you get to decide, but personally I think for your position, in regard to how players feel about PvP your attitude is poor.
    I have to echo those sentiments too. all this focus on the most broken, boring & exploited section of the game is really annoying to those of us with little to no interest in it. Over the years i've seen thing after thing done for pvp with them being basically dead or unused within weeks. Quit pandering to the noisy pvp'ers, they are a MINORITY in this game and start giving some more focus to the rest of us.
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  13. #93
    Heh, gotta love the "logic" some of the pvp-haters use. It's totally fine to force pvp-players to PvM in order to level/get gear, but heaven forbid making a totally optional mission that involves pvp and gives xp! Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to look at things from wider perspective and realise giving something for both parties with the option of even using both content is the nice middle ground here.

    Yes, things haven't worked as they were intended to so far, but that's not a reason to not fix them.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    I have to echo those sentiments too. all this focus on the most broken, boring & exploited section of the game is really annoying to those of us with little to no interest in it. Over the years i've seen thing after thing done for pvp with them being basically dead or unused within weeks. Quit pandering to the noisy pvp'ers, they are a MINORITY in this game and start giving some more focus to the rest of us.
    I guess if you are dead set on your opinions nothing anyone says can change your view, but I'll try anyway.

    After I started playing in 2005 the Pvp part of the game has received

    - Battlestations. Still used, tho suffers from repetition due to no new maps etc
    - Notum miner area. Not really sure why this was added, anyone actually asked for this?
    - Duels. Some people like those, it's not for all of us.

    That's about it as far as I can remember. NW is still the same as on release over 10 years ago. Only "improvement" was the OS mechanics that killed tl7 wars for 3 years, and mechs.

    If you compare that with all the new content PvM has received, suchs as

    - Xan areas/instances
    - DB instances & quests
    - Numerous SL questlines
    - S10
    - Collector

    and so on, I'd say PvM'ers have more than gotten their fair share of the content.

    There's another aspect to consider. Even the biggest studios cannot produce pvm-content at the pace players play through them. Take Bioware @SWTOR release for example. This can somewhat be helped by artificial timers such as Pande/Gauntlet etc, which then leads to downtime between raidtimes.

    PvP on the other hand is player driven. Devs need to provide the means (areas, mechanics, etc) but after that players create the content (battles) themselves. It's very cost-effective - one of AO's previous GDs mentioned this as dynamic content iirc. Now, PvP ofc isn't for everyone, but there is (/was) a large chunk of players playing mainly for this. Not a majority, but a sizeable group nevertheless. Then there's also people wanting both content: perhaps more pvm-oriented, but still interested taking part in pvp battles every now and then.

    So yeah. Sure the devs could decide to go all-PvM even more than they already are, but given their resources it would hardly stop the cry for more stuff and keep people interested. It would also take away the end-goal (twinks, well-equipped 220s) for many players, both current and potential new people alike.

  15. #95
    Thanks for the update genele, will be interested to see the new missions. Fair do's on the pvp missions. I am not of the pvp persuasion so would be unlikely to be doing the pvp missions without xp reward as that has been my only incentive. IM not agaiinst the changes though and don't resent the pvpers from getting a slice of the pie.

    This will ofcourse lessen the number of players collecting vp leaving mostly pvp'ers being the only ones to farm vp and therefore skyrocketing the price of vp items such as armor and nanos. Can i there for suggest that you introduce a different set of armor to cater for pvm that not only gears the character out for pvm but also becomes attainable by doing pvm as ofab is pvp content obtained through performing pvp.

    I also can not think that improving the chances of gaining xp will only worsen the instance of players overly levelled and underly equipped especially as you are essentially taking away ofab. Gaining xp has become easier and easier but gear acquisition doesn't in fact given the lowering numbers of the playerbase it could say its getting harder considering ofab is the expected quality gear you should have until you have had a chance to gear up with the harder to get stuff.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Freor View Post
    Heh, gotta love the "logic" some of the pvp-haters use. It's totally fine to force pvp-players to PvM in order to level/get gear, but heaven forbid making a totally optional mission that involves pvp and gives xp! Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to look at things from wider perspective and realise giving something for both parties with the option of even using both content is the nice middle ground here.

    Yes, things haven't worked as they were intended to so far, but that's not a reason to not fix them.
    I agree Freor,

    In a game with 3 factions and territorial PvP, I find it rather amusing that people still to this day cry that PvP was never intended for AO, and that PvPers are noisy, rude, make stupid suggestions.
    It is a level of shortsightedness and holier than thou bullcrap that should be left out of forums. AO has PvP in many different shapes and formes, its ingame and you can't do anything about it. Suck it up and do only PvM if you want, but to think that removing PvP from AO would in any way help the future of AO, at this perhaps very critical juncture of AO's lifespan is sucidal.

    This game currently needs all types of gamers, grow up and deal with your petty hate for how others choose to enjoy the game. There are multiple places in this forum where PvMers are just as degenerate as some PvPers are.
    And as far as being a minority, PvPers did pretty damn well in the poll. So maybe the world is not as black and white as some would proclaim.


    Oh and in before the "PvPers probably logged 7 of their accounts to vote" because I am pretty sure everyone logged all the accounts they could, lets not be total tards.


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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    Lets be brutally honest here: PVP missions from the neutral "secret" bar in Borealis were meant to be pvp missions. Sadly, most of these missions aren't even close to being pvp and doesn't encourage pvp. You can tab towers in a tower field without pvping. I have had players yelling at me when I attacked them in the notum miner area, which was designed to be a pvp area.
    I'm sorry but to earn a significant reward for doing pvp, I feel that you should pvp. The xp reward on pvp missions were added to help pvpers level, not pvmers. I'm not punishing pvmers any more than I am punishing pvpers by having them do pvm content to level.

    Doing a battlestation round to get the maximum reward for a pvp daily is not a punishment. I have pvped with plenty of completely gimped characters in the battlestation. You can still be of use if you play smart, cap points and mech up when it gets too rough. If you don't care about pvp ranks and reputation, does it really matter if you die a few times? I mean you don't even get resurrection sickness in the battlestations.
    Yes, let's be brutally honest.

    You are making changes that, really, have no effect. It is obviously something you wanted to change in your new role - but really, why? In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't merit the time. Fix the "real" exploits.

    As for PVP - you want PVP to occur to complete a mission. When, exactly, was the last time you did Tara? I bet the last 100 raids I have been to there has been no pvp - that goes for whichever side bot is in control. Side bots...a whole other issue.

    As for BS - when was the last time you did that? Fix the bugged missions, make new maps, number of players per side, make new games, make changes that mean something. As for it being punishment, it was always my thought that the triple reward was to give the PVM fodder a reason to do them - so the BS actually runs. As for capping points - try to cap - you will get hate tells from BOTH sides. So yeah, for many it is punishment and they just skip them. I will wager, more will skip them now.

    Your attitude about PVP and PVM is frightening. The game is PVM/E - the PVP component is the players. You are now using game mechanics to force folks (well, it wont because they non-PVP crowd will just skip it) into a paradigm they don't want to be part of (by choice). As the GD, do you really think this is a good idea?

    The PVP zones are dead, have been for years - you have played the game to know this, right?
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  18. #98
    Okay next pacth...pvp players have "ingame new set of pvp armor and upgrade that is wearable only during pvp" ^_=

    pvm gear..used in pvm world

    /runs off to hide in pvm world ^_=
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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Freor View Post
    I guess if you are dead set on your opinions nothing anyone says can change your view, but I'll try anyway.

    After I started playing in 2005 the Pvp part of the game has received

    - Battlestations. Still used, tho suffers from repetition due to no new maps etc
    - Notum miner area. Not really sure why this was added, anyone actually asked for this?
    - Duels. Some people like those, it's not for all of us.

    That's about it as far as I can remember. NW is still the same as on release over 10 years ago. Only "improvement" was the OS mechanics that killed tl7 wars for 3 years, and mechs.

    If you compare that with all the new content PvM has received, suchs as

    - Xan areas/instances
    - DB instances & quests
    - Numerous SL questlines
    - S10
    - Collector

    and so on, I'd say PvM'ers have more than gotten their fair share of the content.

    There's another aspect to consider. Even the biggest studios cannot produce pvm-content at the pace players play through them. Take Bioware @SWTOR release for example. This can somewhat be helped by artificial timers such as Pande/Gauntlet etc, which then leads to downtime between raidtimes.

    PvP on the other hand is player driven. Devs need to provide the means (areas, mechanics, etc) but after that players create the content (battles) themselves. It's very cost-effective - one of AO's previous GDs mentioned this as dynamic content iirc. Now, PvP ofc isn't for everyone, but there is (/was) a large chunk of players playing mainly for this. Not a majority, but a sizeable group nevertheless. Then there's also people wanting both content: perhaps more pvm-oriented, but still interested taking part in pvp battles every now and then.

    So yeah. Sure the devs could decide to go all-PvM even more than they already are, but given their resources it would hardly stop the cry for more stuff and keep people interested. It would also take away the end-goal (twinks, well-equipped 220s) for many players, both current and potential new people alike.
    Your logic is a bit flawed.

    The content added was for both PVP and PVM players. You use the gear and buffs in those PVM areas to PVP, right?

    Most are not making a case against fixing PVP areas/zones - but not at the expense of the majority of players that don't PVP. PVP - as you noted - is player driven. The areas to PVP exist and most are not used by anyone. I agree to fix/update those - but why is the GD making changes that really were not needed and not asked for? Do you think the BS will run more now?

    Based on Genele's comments about PVP, I would assume the path for PVP leveling would require to kill other PVPers. Missions to kill a specific prof or number of other sides for example. That would be true PVP-leveling. Gaining PVP gear? I guess the only real way (again, using the PVP paradigm) is to take the gear off other players.
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  20. #100
    Biggest issue i have pvm is getting chars from 150-200, 201-220 i have no problem.
    Also now the 3x bs daily is getting scrapped its going to be even slower and lonlier.

    Scheol/ado quests or instances that would give mega xp but in shorter level incriments would be
    Ideal. say an ado quest line ala dark ruins that you can do once that would get you from
    150-160 and same in pen would be nice.

    Am i the only one that has issues with 150-200?

    Also not a fan of 160's leeching in inferno missions
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