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Thread: Monthly Development Update - 2nd June 2014

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmax View Post
    The MA and trader change is a change in the right direction.
    Is it now ? Lowbie traders should be subject so some nerf or balancing, but at tl7 taking away drain power in comparison to an enf who got another stun nano/perk w/e and a shade that will be able to sneak mid combat, these changes aren't really welcome.

    Not to mention that with some effort, most pistol users can perk under one drain..if they did before, they sure will be able to now..all this while trader def is still at a point that you cant evade anything without draining it.

    If the line cooldown will be more then 4s, this will mean a utter nerf. It would actually be worse then having 4s recharge. Before you could cast a drain every 4s on multiple targets, now you wont be ?

    Not to mention the fact that a trader can: drain person A, attack person A, drain person B when it attacks the trader - but person B just uses the Health and nanorecharger for insta removal.

    Get this - the drain is removed before the traders nano recharge is gone. Amazing aint it ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    With a kite team you generaly pay for your lvls. Imo this makes it ok..
    Quote Originally Posted by Vgman01 View Post
    Pocket teaming is fine to because (most of the time) players actualy step up and kill the hecklers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hvyshadows View Post
    OST is actually a good thing. In many Ely heck teams where there is a pocket the rest of the team sits around and chats every once in awhile.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    True, Norway is swimming in cash, ...
    Far from it ...
    No further significant work is expected to be done on this project going forward.

  3. #103
    I'm pretty sure by now that funcom has two lottery bowls, one with ideas/abilities they saw in other games and another with professions. That's the only way to explain the infinite nonsense behind their decision making when it comes to profession tools and balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    Remember guys these things *are* subject to change given GOOD feedback
    Good joke, been trying that for years. Good feedback is always ignored with the same old excuse "well you're not speaking for everyone". Somehow FC and their forum white knights expect the entire playerbase to merge into one being so we can all express our opinions in a single post.
    Last edited by Pafpuf; Jun 4th, 2014 at 13:04:21.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Downplay what exactly? Based on the OP we could be losing a frankly HUGE chunk of our AAD. It's like Crats losing CiB, it's that level of defensive loss.
    Is it? LOL!






    I promise you everything will be okay.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Metafizis View Post
    Is it now ? Lowbie traders should be subject so some nerf or balancing, but at tl7 taking away drain power in comparison to an enf who got another stun nano/perk w/e and a shade that will be able to sneak mid combat, these changes aren't really welcome.

    Not to mention that with some effort, most pistol users can perk under one drain..if they did before, they sure will be able to now..all this while trader def is still at a point that you cant evade anything without draining it.

    If the line cooldown will be more then 4s, this will mean a utter nerf. It would actually be worse then having 4s recharge. Before you could cast a drain every 4s on multiple targets, now you wont be ?

    Not to mention the fact that a trader can: drain person A, attack person A, drain person B when it attacks the trader - but person B just uses the Health and nanorecharger for insta removal.

    Get this - the drain is removed before the traders nano recharge is gone. Amazing aint it ?
    Funny i didn't have any problems in the passed when my trader was low level, there wasn't any
    healing drains for Trader back then, and my weapon was a snakemaster crittsetup

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmax View Post
    Funny i didn't have any problems in the passed when my trader was low level, there wasn't any
    healing drains for Trader back then, and my weapon was a snakemaster crittsetup
    He specifically said TL7.

    Everyone knows Lowbie Traders have it good, but making rapid and unthoughtful changes to low level issues actually makes things ALOT worse at the higher end of things too.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    He specifically said TL7.

    Everyone knows Lowbie Traders have it good, but making rapid and unthoughtful changes to low level issues actually makes things ALOT worse at the higher end of things too.
    He specifically said "Lowbie traders" That is not under TL7. Traders are support class and tradeskiller, traders where never meant to be a paladin.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmax View Post
    He specifically said "Lowbie traders" That is not under TL7. Traders are support class and tradeskiller, traders where never meant to be a paladin.
    Doctors are meant to be primary healers, why are they one of the better DPM profs ingame?
    Enfs are meant to be tanks, why do they have one of the highest base ARs in the game?
    Crats are meant to be support de-buffers/buffers, why do they have one of the best damage outputs in the game?

    That is an awful argument. Traders were JUST FINE. There was LITERALLY NO NEED for their drains to be nerfed at TL7.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    I'm pretty sure by now that funcom has two lottery bowls, one with ideas/abilities they saw in other games and another with professions. That's the only way to explain the infinite nonsense behind their decision making when it comes to profession tools and balance.



    Good joke, been trying that for years. Good feedback is always ignored with the same old excuse "well you're not speaking for everyone". Somehow FC and their forum white knights expect the entire playerbase to merge into one being so we can all express our opinions in a single post.

    I submit that any good ideas are not only ignored, but actively put on a blacklist and locked in a chest in a dark room in a castle far away, probably somewhere in Transylvania.

  10. #110
    I've been back a re-read the run of posts the current leadership has made, and I can't shake the feeling they being made by a low lvl n00b, or someone that has not nearly enough experience of the live game to make the decisions they are making based on what they know and understand of AO.

    I seriously don't envy any of the team that will be labeled "the ones that finally killed AO"
    Guate halved the player base over 3months with SL when it was released, and he will never loose that stain.
    Caloss2 LVL 220 melee VANGUARD (semi retired).....Llewlyn 220/30/70 meepmeep.....Boooocal 220../30/70 Soldier.......Knack 220/30/70 Keeper.....Hiesenberg 215/xx/xx NT NERFED Neytiri1 220/30/70 Shade Knacker220/30/70Meat shield
    https://www.youtube.com/user/caloss2 for guides/walkthroughs/letsplays and all your other AO needs
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta
    In my special design documents that I feed to the FC devs, who are my willing slaves.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Doctors are meant to be primary healers, why are they one of the better DPM profs ingame?
    Enfs are meant to be tanks, why do they have one of the highest base ARs in the game?
    Crats are meant to be support de-buffers/buffers, why do they have one of the best damage outputs in the game?
    It comes down to 1 thing, gear.
    Gone are the days when you had to make gear sacrifices in order to achieve something, now you can just slap on combined and still perform well.
    My Enf doesn't have great base AR, 2.8k only, but he's in eJathos + Ofab which I feel is tankier due to mods provided. But I could still tank generally just as fine if I swapped out all the eJathos for CC which would net me 270 base AR off the bat without even trying.

    It comes down to everything being easily achievable even in mediocre gear, therefore "pushing" yourself to have the most AR/DD doesn't mean sacrifices on other front (for the most part, yes there is still a suicide symb etc), so you can still maintain the status quo per se, but while yielding larger benefits to yourself and your fellow team mates or more.

    If there was actually a reason to compromise in gear in order to satisfy situations, there would be more parity and balance among the professions, until such item comes along that completely wrecks it.

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    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Doctors are meant to be primary healers, why are they one of the better DPM profs ingame?
    Enfs are meant to be tanks, why do they have one of the highest base ARs in the game?
    Crats are meant to be support de-buffers/buffers, why do they have one of the best damage outputs in the game?

    That is an awful argument. Traders were JUST FINE. There was LITERALLY NO NEED for their drains to be nerfed at TL7.
    - Just because Enf are tanks doesn't mean they can't have height AR? Enf are not top of dd list any ways.

    - I never read that Crats are support debuffs class, they are a pet damage dealing class and maybe one of the games funniest class to master.

    In pvp Traders are just lol, they can debuff you down to obligation, yet sustain full-health. There
    is no other class that can do that, other classes debuffs are just "pina colada" compared.
    Last edited by Ironmax; Jun 4th, 2014 at 17:00:41.

  13. #113
    As long as drains last 3 minutes traders have no right to complain about a 4 second cooldown.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmax View Post
    - Just because Enf are tanks doesn't mean they can't have height AR? Enf are not top of dd list any ways.
    They are fairly high up there on the DD tables. Also, why does a Tank need high AR when all his threat comes from nanos and the odd perk? All it does it exacerbate the problem of him being a walking force of nature in PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmax View Post
    - I never read that Crats are support debuffs class, they are a pet damage dealing class and maybe one of the games funniest class to master.
    I have a 220 Endgame Crat. They are debuffers/buffers. If you took away Malaise and Tapes from Crats and gave them to MPs, suddenly MPs would be one of the most sought after classes in the game. It just so happens that Crats also get a stupidly huge nuke and LE nuke proc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmax View Post
    In pvp Traders are just lol, they can debuff you down to obligation, yet sustain full-health. There
    is no other class that can do that, other classes debuffs are just "pina colada" compared.
    No other class can do that?

    Advy (DoF+CH)
    Doc (UBT+CH)
    Enf (Layers, Mongo, Rage, Perks)
    Shade (Siphons, AAD)
    NT (Blinds, NBS/NS2, Triples/Doubles)
    Crat (Tapes, Snares, HUGE base AAD)
    Engy (Blinds, Snare Mines, Coon+Bio Rej, Blockers)
    MAs to some extent. (DoF/MoK)
    Agent (UBT+CH)

    Traders are good in 1v1 fights IF they can even land their toolset, which now with the pre-draining gone, will be substantially harder. The moment another person enters the fight, Traders combat effectiveness is instantly removed because Trader defence is tied to enemy AR.
    Stop pretending you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to TL7 Trader PvP, it's embarrassing.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    Remember guys these things *are* subject to change given GOOD feedback, not just knee-jerk Turkey-Lurky reactions
    That's a good one. Like how after LE launch only omni trox fixers with a gunship and every other FA and stam buffing item in game could equip the ql 300 hawk, and it took a couple months of fixers complaining and working out the math before Sil finally relented from his "ql 275 is good enough for fixers" stance and changed things?

    Or how about the much more recent one regarding the incoming fixer meep nerf "fix" for NW griefing, there's a thread in the fixer forums with feedback as well as multiple alternative ways to achieve the desired result much more effectively than the the proposed nerf of a profession definining ability. That hasn't hit live yet, but I for one still certainly expect FC to push through the quick bandaid fix.

    I only really pay attention to the fixer prof forum, but I wouldn't be all that surprised if every prof could dig similar stuff up.
    Kain97 - 220 Fixer, President, Pantheon
    Maskirovka - 220 Shade
    Dominum - 220 Bureaucrat
    Severit - 220 Enforcer
    Sayet - 220 Doctor

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Traders are good in 1v1 fights IF they can even land their toolset, which now with the pre-draining gone, will be substantially harder. The moment another person enters the fight, Traders combat effectiveness is instantly removed because Trader defence is tied to enemy AR.
    Stop pretending you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to TL7 Trader PvP, it's embarrassing.
    What's also embarrassing is looking for balance in a team based mmorpg through the tunnel vision of a duelist. If the game was designed for duels all buffs would be self only.

  17. #117
    Ok, I won't speak on PvP because I don't pvp on my TL7 Trader so this post is strictly involving PvM.

    After reading some comments on the forums I decided, out of curiosity, to see how big of an impact this change to drains could have on my TL7 trader. I'm not sure if my testing method is helpful to anyone else but basically what I did was try to kill mobs using drains (to make sure it was something I could kill currently) and then try killing the same mobs after pre-draining myself but without the use of any divest/plunder drain on the mob.

    For the record, I am not the best trader in the world. It is my main because I love the class but there are plenty of other traders out there more knowledgeable and better at playing the class than me. Also, despite this being my main she's probably one of my worst geared toons since I'm constantly adjusting something (currently mid-way putting her into a crit setup). She's never been 'finished' in all of these 5 years that I've had her.

    Inferno
    Creepy Spider: Killed without pre-draining and without draining the mob.
    Alfreet Ellis: Killed without pre-draining and without draining the mob.
    Asty: Killed without pre-draining and without draining the mob.

    Albtraum
    Shadowy Wing: Killed with pre-draining and without draining the mob. This one is annoying though because of that init debuff it puts on you. I'm sure there's a way to clear it but I didn't during the fights. I had to use YEEIYF since I couldn't take advantage of IHP or IHH.
    Voracious Horror: Killed without pre-draining and without draining the mob
    Soul Stealer: Killed without pre-draining and without draining the mob. Also, the apparition that pops right after.

    I did die about 3 times in Alb before I got my rhythm down. It was my first time going in there on that toon. I didn't try Scary Spider or any of those dyna notum scourges in inferno. I also didn't try the eremites in Alb because I simply didn't feel like running through to find one. I did have a fixer hot for part of the fights. Outside of that I was self buffed and did not use a reflect graft. I used the LE skilldrain procs though I wonder if those HP/heal drain procs are helpful when doing something like this solo. I sacrificed some evades/aad for crit in my setup so that's something else to take into account. I didn't root and try to use ranged advantage/kite. All fights were toe to toe which probably isn't taking full advantage of my skillset. I've never had to even try to root any of these mobs before so no idea if they land. Regardless it wasn't needed.

    I will try a notum scorge dyna later.. I don't believe I've ever attempted to kill one with my trader before but now I'm curious. I might try Scary Spider as well.

    I love my trader, I don't want to see her nerfed but I also don't want to make a big deal out of something that's not going to impact me. That said, if it is going to have a negative impact on my experience I want to make sure that I express those concerns early on. So what else are traders soloing these days that I can potentially test? Because right now seems like I'll be fine (saying "I" because I can only test my own setup). I figure if I can kill a mob without any drain on them at all then having a nerfed drain will just make it that much easier.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jun 4th, 2014 at 18:18:04.
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  18. #118
    In time all professions will be nerfed. PvM will become difficult, PvP will be different. You wont have OPed tool sets and tool sets that can be abused and de-buffs that last an absurd amount of time. AO is changing, slowly but surely. Some wont mind it, some will like it, some will hate and people will quit. This is the future of AO, deal with it or dont.

  19. #119
    I waited to post, as I only have a tl5-6 ma and trader s10 and s7 builds not pvp. The MA heal I think will help solo more than team. With a evade cycling and maybe a little kite action might help a lot. I can not count the number of times I have died on MA while in heal recharge after a series of unfortunate back to back crits. BUT i've always felt ANY healing in team is better than NO healing in team so i'll wait to see some concrete numbers.

    As far as traders, self draining was never meant to be a viable pre drain ability. It wasn't until virus scanners/removers that this was even realized. Thats not really a bug but certainly a game mechanic manipulation. The amount of drains never really made sense to me when stacked its an absolute insane amount of -aao. There is no other debuffs that even compares to that. You could argue crat debuffs insane init and I would agree they need to be nerfed to but even when init drained the crat can still be hit and killed.

    Now if i were a betting man, I would stake a claim that these opening salvo nerfs are the continuation of making the game MORE team dependant. If we are to believe the rebalance threads/documents at some point docs will not be able to solo almost everything in game with time because they will run out of nano a lot faster as an example. Enfos will not have boss sized hp bars and able to spam layers. etc etc

    Just feels like a safe bet that the last profs to get rebalance/nerfs are going to be the holy trinity doc/enf/crat.
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  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    They are fairly high up there on the DD tables. Also, why does a Tank need high AR when all his threat comes from nanos and the odd perk? All it does it exacerbate the problem of him being a walking force of nature in PvP.
    No they are not


    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post

    No other class can do that?

    Advy (DoF+CH)
    Doc (UBT+CH)
    Enf (Layers, Mongo, Rage, Perks)
    Shade (Siphons, AAD)
    NT (Blinds, NBS/NS2, Triples/Doubles)
    Crat (Tapes, Snares, HUGE base AAD)
    Engy (Blinds, Snare Mines, Coon+Bio Rej, Blockers)
    MAs to some extent. (DoF/MoK)
    Agent (UBT+CH)
    I don't see any classes here that removes your "weapon".

    Most Init debuffs doesn't really make any difference since people can use perks to alpha and special action.
    Last edited by Ironmax; Jun 4th, 2014 at 19:04:08.

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