Engy Damage?

[Wakizaka]

Damn, that's a lot lower than I assumed. I suppose +dmg is the way to go then.
As an aside, I prefer Shotgun Mastery over PU for the higher static +dmg (+80 vs +65 from PU averaged out to include uptime on Energize) because I don't really want to dump IP into RE in order to land perks, much like I decided against Bigburger for FA because of the IP spend and crappy AR with it.

Thanks for the calcs Noobas.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Waki, I as well feel the value on shotgun mastery.

The problem would be finding an appropriate weapon with which to use them.

For real DPSing, a onehander is a poor choice, not sure what other 1handed shotguns can fill that slot besides a low recoil kick pistol... maybe something like a SA home defender which also gives fling?

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=124240


Likely you want fling, which rules out shattergun. But a kick pistol could be pretty useful. With the bigger crit on it, it would raise the add dmg value of 1% crit a fair bit - note that one reason the crit isn't worth so much in this setup is because peregrine has a very low crit (lowest except for troaler).

[Tryptophy]

Therefore, 1% crit is approximately equal to 8.2 add dmg.

Thank you so much for the maths. Maybe this should be stickied?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

My pleasure, I'd like to do one for some other profs too, but they are time consuming!

[Wakizaka]

For real DPSing, a onehander is a poor choice, not sure what other 1handed shotguns can fill that slot besides a low recoil kick pistol... maybe something like a SA home defender which also gives fling?

Yeah, Kick Pistol is sitting in my Inventory atm, just need to get around to upgrading it to the Low Recoil version.
Hopefully it'll yield some nice results, but so far at least I've been happy with Engi damage.

[Tryptophy]

My pleasure, I'd like to do one for some other profs too, but they are time consuming!

I'm not good enough with maths to do this, but could you make a spreadsheet with the calcs in a way that someone can tinker with the numbers that change? I.e. weapon damages, perk numbers, class multiplier, number of perks/procs? Should be simple enough then for other people to fill in their own numbers, experiment with setups, etc.? Or are there too many variables that change with the situation?

*Edit: I can try it but I bet the results will be both hideous and incorrect.
*Edit2: I tried it anyway, plugged in the numbers for IDBEP instead of peregrine and got a value of 11.56 instead of 8.2. This assumes none of the fancy considerations about specials, perks, procs etc. change. Not sure if that is a big enough difference to matter.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The trick is in the last step:

Add all the "points of contact" for which 1 add dmg applies, so, lets say you already calculate what 1% crit produces (say it's 1000 dmg).

Then you say, well 1 point of add dmg influences 91 points of contact/minute.

so 1000/91 is your answer.

[Dogtrauma]

*Edit2: I tried it anyway, plugged in the numbers for IDBEP instead of peregrine and got a value of 11.56 instead of 8.2. This assumes none of the fancy considerations about specials, perks, procs etc. change. Not sure if that is a big enough difference to matter.

It matters in some gear choices, for example this can be used to tell that the break even point were a crit scope starts outdoing the LE damage hud would be roughly at 9% for AMEP/IDBEP and at 13% for AMEP/Peregrine. It can also tell you that with dual engi pistols CC will be stronger than DB armor but that they are at least somewhat in the same ballpark.

There is a small problem with this comparison ofc. some bosses have a fair amount of crit reduction, so there is a minimum level of +crit needed to make this actually work in a linear fashion.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

It matters in some gear choices, for example this can be used to tell that the break even point were a crit scope starts outdoing the LE damage hud would be roughly at 9% for AMEP/IDBEP and at 13% for AMEP/Peregrine. It can also tell you that with dual engi pistols CC will be stronger than DB armor but that they are at least somewhat in the same ballpark.

There is a small problem with this comparison ofc. some bosses have a fair amount of crit reduction, so there is a minimum level of +crit needed to make this actually work in a linear fashion.

Not to mention PVP.

In PVP and PVT more specifically, there's almost no reason at all to use a crit scope for the purpose of adding crit, since all towers have very high crit reduction; however, if the crit scope adds a skill like aimed shot, then by all means it is still a valid choice - but only for PVP.

[Cratertina]

I do not see personally how engi's can out-damage shades. No Matter how suicide the engi setup is best shades will whoop it. And so will Crats,

As for DD playability, the moments your pet dies you look at minutes of rebuffing, and in ultimate dd build pets die very fast. (full offensive trimmers).

[McKnuckleSamwich]

what? pets die fast?

hardly. the only time I've seen pets die in PVM is vs mobs with really high dmg shields (like 1k).

You always, always out-taunt your pet.

Especially in suicide builds you'll OD your dog by 4-5x I reckon even without pushing it.

[haide]

Waki, I as well feel the value on shotgun mastery.

The problem would be finding an appropriate weapon with which to use them.

For real DPSing, a onehander is a poor choice, not sure what other 1handed shotguns can fill that slot besides a low recoil kick pistol... maybe something like a SA home defender which also gives fling?

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=124240


Likely you want fling, which rules out shattergun. But a kick pistol could be pretty useful. With the bigger crit on it, it would raise the add dmg value of 1% crit a fair bit - note that one reason the crit isn't worth so much in this setup is because peregrine has a very low crit (lowest except for troaler).

Any one got some idee about how one go about a setup for the 'Low Recoil Diamondine Kick Pistol' ?


Maybe something along this line would work ?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I dont' understand why you'd choose a kick pistol for fling if youre not using it.

I'd swap Peh'wer for AMEP,
masterpiece bracer for 5/5 proj arul (or tier 3 DB bracer)
Right arm for burst/AAO or AAD implant, (edit, the symb might be needed to get flingshot capped)
If you're hardcore left arm symb for beserker,
backpiece for ERBP,
deck 3/4 for damage NCU's from S7,
Apoc ring for +28 dmg ring,


Otherwise that looks decent.

[haide]

Tempting, id need 3 more CC, ERBP & Bastion then i might try it

I updated setup

I am holding of on the imps ...for now : )

humn wonder if this would be close enough for a prof of concept ?


Projectile damage modifier 782 VS 676
Critical chance 15 VS 17


Pistol 869 VS 809
Shotgun 553 VS 493
Fling shot 569 VS 509
Burst 365 VS 305

[MajorOutage]

I do not see personally how engi's can out-damage shades. No Matter how suicide the engi setup is best shades will whoop it. And so will Crats,

the best shades and crats

the best

Not many of those left, not for a long while. At any rate, I'd never really had a problem keeping at least toe-to-toe with "the best" from any other profession.


As far as crat vs engi in particular goes, I found it's *easier* to build up to a decently competitive damage level on a crat, but IMHO, it's *harder* to get over that last hump to consistently OD an engi that's equally as balls-out. But that's just my experience from building and playing both. It's not like I can go head-to-head against myself in a raid.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

As far as crat vs engi in particular goes, I found it's *easier* to build up to a decently competitive damage level on a crat, but IMHO, it's *harder* to get over that last hump to consistently OD an engi that's equally as balls-out.

I find this to be true on many different levels.

My issue with all the DPS parsing is utility.

there are some easy swaps to make, and I will do those. The rest I chalk up to being "more than necessary". If you're doing 200k+ DPM, in my books, that's completely sufficient. But if you're in a suicide setup doing 300k+ DPM then great, but, with all that DD and low survival, you're going to have the doc chaining heals on you... which means the doc can't fight - and realistically, you don't *need* to be in a suicide setup to crank DD, you merely need to try hard and have an appropriate setup.

And that's where the DPM race gets really interesting, because a doc who is fighting properly can punch out 130-140k DPM really easily - that's just trip dotting, and choosing appropriate targets for perking (I do this on my doc in a support setup HP/nanoskill/cost setup with RH/LH doc pistols). But if the doc is constantly trying to keep people alive... his DPM will sink to 60-70k.

[Cratertina]

Some fresh experience, it seems my engi does better than crat or shade in cityraid when partiallyy afk.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

dog chews holes in aliens. GJ on correction/update.

[Ciex]

I had LRDKP on my atrox engi for a while and it isnt worth it imho. 1k hits with bigger crit here and there make it good only during short periods of medallion. What you need to remember is that its crit dependand weapon, while most other engi setups are +dmg oriented and imho +dmg simply works better for AMEP as you cant crit with burst. You also need like 3000 fling to cap it, GL with that I went back to AMEP + pewpewer pistol. I have a dmg engi and dmg setuped shade (including berserker implants) and engi seems to work better on low AC mobs but inside SL its still behind a non-slacking hardcore shade.

[Cratertina]

Major diffrence is shade heals by doing damage, engi can get in to a lot of trouble fast by tanking.Nail in cofffin for me are buffing times. When you log to kill dyna on shade, you are 300k damage per second capable in 5 seconds. On engi in 5 minutes, thats 1500k damage before engi has pets able to survive the encounter. Crat in comparison, can get carlo up and buffed in 10 seconds, then while perks execute your.CEO is ready.

Engi just takes ages to get ready, but once its ready, there is light, there is shine... So totaly depends on what you do.

Shade for speed, crat for class, engi is sex on wheels.