Soju's Multiboxing Guide

[Avari]

You'll have to argue with the internet / a dictionary on that one, the definition isn't mine. "Multilogging" is just a synonym for multiboxing.

Alright, we can define it then in the context of how most people in AO would understand it:

Multi-logging: Running two or more instances of the client and have one person control them manually in order to do simple content or enable faster completion of content. E.g. have a doc on follow and alt+tab to push heal occasionally while you kill stuff with your soldier/shade/whatever or have your MP heal pet on /follow on a low level char. People have done this forever without every other thread on the forum being turned into a discussion about it.

Multi-boxing: Using third party software to significantly increase the effectiveness of multi-logging to the extent that it becomes game breaking. The keywords here are using third party software.

Greed fuels innovation

What innovation? What's the innovation that multiboxers have brought to AO that benefits the wider population and wouldn't have come without them? It is my oppinion that you're grasping at straws here. You're trying to apply logical reasoning to something you have no data to support.

[...]multiboxers keep gear prices low by flooding the market with supply. (which is the part of my post you conveniently left out.)

It's left out because it's a fallacy. You can't predict the behavior of the economy without multiboxers. That's like you trying to predict the weather by sticking a finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. Neither you nor I can say anything consequential about the impact of multiboxers on the economy. You have no data what-so-ever to base anything on.

Again, you're giving the perception of providing logical arguments for benefits of multiboxers without having any data to support it.

Another thing: Who's to say prices going up on lootrights is a bad thing? Maybe someone would think to himself/herself "Hmm, can't afford a 1b credit DB3 bracer, better go do it myself with org/friends/random people". Maybe, just maybe, I'd get an extra person to team with when I wanted to do XX instance instead of him buying it because he doesn't have the credits to be lazy about it.

PVM multiboxing doesn't affect anyone outside of your prices on the GMI being overall lower as a result.

See random thought above.

I've read the multiple suggestions brought up by the community to discourage multiboxing

Actually, we agree here. No amount of changed game mechanics will dissuade multiboxing. It'll most likely make life more difficult for everyone but multiboxers. That's why it's just something FC has to ban and then let GMs police it with a seperate petition category for a while. This might push some to just do it in PvM instances and I'm fine with people risking that as long as multiboxers are kept 100% out of PvP atleast. By all accounts Eve actually did just that. It's perfectly reasonable to ask FC to do the same.

[...]is not practical for the game's remaining man power to enforce

Let's not kid ourselves here. There are not that many multiboxers around and I actually get better response time on my petitions than I used to from 2004 to 2009 when the game was much more active. If it's banned it'll probably die out pretty quickly. People don't go around exploiting in public just for laughs.

However, what IS possible to do something about, is the "assist" functions developed as an alternative to the /assist macro and Multibox Helper, which are malicious tools designed specifically for huge advantages in tower PVP.

Those are what the community *should* be fighting against, since they're both, in my opinion, exploiting, botting, and malicious tools who's whole concept is gaining advantages over other players.

Yup.

[Alternity]

Seriously, people still don't understand the difference between input-multiplexing (ie. HotKeyNet) and multi-logging accounts and playing by tabbing through clients.

Even worse if the two are believed to be equal.

[Vinkera]

I see no difference. The end goal is the same, and if my terminology offends anyone, I honestly don't care.

But, getting hung up on terminology is just stupid pride clouding judgement. If you multibox without software on principle, that's fine, but it's still the same as if you dual-log and use Hotkey Net. I suppose people consider the term demeaning and negative, but who really cares. If you want to call a pen a spoon because it hurts your feelings less, I'm not bothered, but it's still a pen to me.

We can leave economics aside, since it seems to only be a vector for argument rather than progress, and again you're getting hung up on something that's not the primary concern, either.

The primary concern is PVP multiboxing, as it has always been. I'd suggest you stop reading my post here for a moment and re-read my first one on the previous page. It's important to understand the differences and similarities between alt-tab multiboxing and Hotkey Net / MB Helper. The goal is the same, but the means are not.

The question I have is, does anyone actually consider multiboxing in any form (software or alt-tab) fair in PVP? If yes, why?

[Alternity]

I don't feel I need to reread much of anything if the difference between input-multiplexing and alt-tabbing are somehow unclear. You might as well state that the earth is flat.

[appolonia]

Yes it IS different, no Vink is not right about it, then we might take a step and agree there's a HUGE difference from classic alt tabber to sploiting MBer. Using programs managing toons for you and interfering with game's mechanicss is lightyears away from using 2 nanos on X alt(s) with 2 binds.

Worst thing eventually about "MBing" was it came along well with NTs setup, and some stupids abused it. By this time, NW was already dead because fixers meeping, and before because traders or bin laden, and even before I read hitler had ruined NW, or was it attila ? Let's all be serious, this MBing "debate" is a dead end, and 99,99% people don't give a damn about it, not saying about people who don't even know MBing exist. Typical forum stuff, like the olds "people shall not play solo cuz it's a mmo" and "noobs shall be hanged", where people who last subbed years ago come to troll and shout they're so powerful they break the game by not coming back.

Might be me, but my life won't let me call my exs to say they sucked X years ago and to check they're still multigirling.

Most HK user (or intelligent mouse/keyboards) do it for comfort, and a bit of power. If people want to keep it moral, it's a tiny sin, not a crime. Who would farm DB anyway ? Anybody can use HK, we might not be the same but we're equal. Most people use it to manage their doc while they tank or anything close, and all should suffer from half a dozen wankers' behavior ?

Oh I know how my question can be turned against me. IS MBing game breaking ? People in BS themselves say MBing's never been a problem. And obviously it's not a PVE one. Seing how Clam's side has long been 5 times Omni's - both sides have sploiting MBers- MB didn't even break pvp/NW, maybe NT + MBing did. So ?