Doctors

[Goossens]

ubt in pvm was fine, for pvp any debuff / stun should be reduced

[Teeko]

It shouldn't have a capped cast time AND be 1/5 of its previous duration. But in this thread I was more interested in the changes with malpractice in pvp

[Anonimofied]

Bellow is approximately list of which profession was godlike in PVP throughout Anarchy online timeline:

2005, Agents
2006, Keepers
2007, Soldiers
2008, Doctors
2009, Martial Artists
2010 to present day, Crats, Enforcers, Shades, Traders

It is an illusion to think that PVP in Anarchy online is based on actual skills. While in reality it is based on Funcoms decision.
Funcom have decided to nerf doctors, so doctors will not be as good as when they used to be. Like when XAN and Malpractice got introduced to the game, almost all newbie doctors can defeat any other professions, even experienced veterans who have played Anarchy online many years before them.

[Goossens]

you forgot advies in every year

[Herkulease]

I read enforcer's rage will no longer add the speed benefits. Only the Nano Resist.

If that is true, it's a -800 init boost to your debuff. We all know how retarded a doctor's stacked init debuffs can be.

I think they are honestly trying to do some balancing here. May be hard to see the big picture, but doesnt seem all bad.

[Teeko]

Until you realize that rage instantly deletes ubt from the enforcers ncu...

[Goossens]

I read enforcer's rage will no longer add the speed benefits. Only the Nano Resist.

If that is true, it's a -800 init boost to your debuff. We all know how retarded a doctor's stacked init debuffs can be.

I think they are honestly trying to do some balancing here. May be hard to see the big picture, but doesnt seem all bad.

it removes it, it wont land within 30 seconds normally and you can get 100% resist so it already cant land

[mdk00420]

By god are people under the wrong impressions lol. I'm glad you said something teeko. Doctors are far from unkillable. I've had every profession take me out at one point or another. At all different level ranges. Every profession can kill another profession in the right setup and with luck on their side. If the world was absolutely perfect that maybe some professions would be, but it's not lol. Timing is critical and just that luck factor with procs hitting and nanos landing...

Lets get things straight though, doctors should definitely be able to kill in pvp. I don't know any game that one specific profession, character, race can't kill anything at all. Personally I don't play enough anymore to really care what happens with malpractice but it was OP. I think the init debuffs pretty much over did it. The DD though wasn't really that OP. Just everything else with it.

On another note, even though malp might be a good DD nuke, its not something you can cast forever. Fact is that most of the time you'll run out of nano before you get through someones defenses to kill them.

In a nutshell just about every profession in some way can get the evades, nano resist, alphas to kill a doctor. A lot of it just depends on the other players setup and skill at timing and luck.

So a doctor isn't a god by no means, no profession is. And personally I love the fact that its like a circle of life in AO. One profession can kill another much more easily then another. Tons of professions can kill an MP pretty good but the MP will most likely annihilate the doctor. That same profession that can kill the MP the doctor can kill.

Or a better example, shades. Shades are like deathrow for a doctor. Theres just no out healing their DD. They have so many alphas they can do and no way to evade or guard against it. But a soldier is a fairly easy target for a doctor, albeit annoying... Yet a soldier is very well setup to kill shades.

They can try to balance this game but unless every profession gets the same everything, it won't happen lol. And I think its fairly well balanced now. You have lots of choices you can make on your character to be strong against something in particular. Or you can try to even it out to be ok in almost everyhing. I think this whole rebalance thing is a joke though. All of this is only resulting in us needing to learn our toolsets again. Because I 100% guarantee this won't balance anything to be better then where we are now. They are better off not wasting resources and time recreating toolsets and just tweak the toolsets we have now very slightly until it comes within an acceptable level of differences in weaknesses and strengths vs each prrofession.

Doctors malpractice causing problems? Tweak it a little. Sure. Remove the dot, start with that, test it, still to much? Lower inits or remove them, to little? bring back dots. But now we are getting into fitting malpractice into a whole new timing of our toolsets where we have to completely rethink how we are going to use it.

I'm not saying its a terrible thing thats going to end the game abruptly... I'm saying its a waste of time when they could just do little tweaks rather then this whole makeshift rebalance thing. We are going to be in a similar predicament just with a different circle at the end of the day.

Lol, now I don't play runescape, but has anyone seen the way RS3 is? I won't lie I've tried it but I wanted to throw a brick through the screen because I used to love that game back before I started playing AO 7 years ago. The new RS3 is ridiculous and a ton of people didn't even want to make the change. Did anyone notice the drop in the player base right after that change? How about them reopening the RS2 style gameplay? its the same concept. They tried changing the game entirely, The whole combat system was so over dramatic that only new players understood it. My guess is vets had to relearn the whole game, and a huge portion dropped out because they didn't want to transition.

I think I read a post somewhere (from UNIDENTIFIED) that said something along the lines that, this game isn't going to be vet friendly when its all done. That once this is done we won't have a place in AO and that we should let the new players (like ourselves sometime ago) enjoy the new AO.

Anyways, none of this really matters for me because I haven't really played AO for the last 5 years :/ Just continue logging on and missing the old days of having time to play and watching chats. But never really get into anything. Best of luck with the changes hope it all turns out well.

[Chewy1]

Granted these nerfs are unnecessary (having played a NT for some time I know how much capped cast times blow in pvp) but complaining how you can't kill with a profession called DOCTOR who's primary role is HEALING is pretty ridiculous.

Here's a good idea, lets merge all profs into one since almost everyone in this game expects their favored profs to be a jack of all trades.

Agreed!!! I laugh when people I talk to say "My doctor can barely kill anything as it is". I didn't realize docs were supposed to be able to kill anyone in pvp. Doctors are HEALERS.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'd be a lot happier with my doctor if I could trade some healing for damage.

Something like the zazen stance would be cool, except call it something like nano assault medic (sorry I think I stole this from Wildstar), but anyway, assault medic gets -75% heal eff, +10% crit, 500 AAO@200 and 200 add dmg@200

now docs can DPS or heal. sweet.

[Hassler]

Doctors do harm. UBT is one of the most powerful debuffs in the game, if not the most powerful. Wait lemme guess, you think the only way of harming someone is by doing damage ?

what about nsd, drains, malaise? good joke that ubt is more powerful as the others when everyone can remove it with a rod of dismissal every 5mins, pet profs can remove it with hhab every 5 mins and 2 profs got 110% resi items for it.

Agreed!!! I laugh when people I talk to say "My doctor can barely kill anything as it is". I didn't realize docs were supposed to be able to kill anyone in pvp. Doctors are HEALERS.

there are alot of support profs, doc isnt the only one. if they all get their dmg nerfed to only be a support prof im ok with it but i cant understand why doc should be the only one who gets such big nerfs when they were very balanced until now

[Goossens]

Agreed!!! I laugh when people I talk to say "My doctor can barely kill anything as it is". I didn't realize docs were supposed to be able to kill anyone in pvp. Doctors are HEALERS.

Than all other profs shouldn't have healing at all and be like :

Fixers should only be able to fix things and run
Advies should only have parrot and go on an adventure
Shades should be shady
Agents should be able to infiltrate other faction cities without being seen
MA's should be able to look like bruce lee and jacky chan and make people laugh
Engineers should make machines that other people thing "O my god thats awesome"
Traders should hang in the stores trading items from 1 store to another
MP's should make meatball sandwiches for everyone
Crat should do all our paperwork regarding to subscription and GMS trades
Soldiers should go battle in the field with other soldiers
Enforcers should get all get a diet otherwise they should get -rs and lay in bed with their fat bums
NTs join up with the engineers to make even more phat nano machines
Keepers should keep all their phat keeper things


Thinking a doc shouldn't be able to kill anything is ridiculous, I and many of us dont mind rerolling to pre LE where procs are gone and it takes timing and yes long for a doc to kill something but we can actually land our debuffs (%heal etc) and it actually matters but still be able to kill them in the long run once where duels were actually fun and for the good pvpers, but right now every dd class has to much healing / debuffs to mess up a doc, especially in random pvp we are one of the weakest classes when being attacked, if you don't want us to be able to kill anything we need a huge def boost or every other class needs a huge dd nerf

[Pafpuf]

what about nsd, drains, malaise? good joke that ubt is more powerful as the others when everyone can remove it with a rod of dismissal every 5mins, pet profs can remove it with hhab every 5 mins and 2 profs got 110% resi items for it.

I said one of the most, not the most powerful. how it effects certain professions is a moot point as some are unaffected while others are severely crippled by it. Enforcers being unaffected by it doesn't mean UBT is weak, that's like saying NTs off focus nuke damage is weak because they'll never kill a doc. Most other professions would disagree.

[Hassler]

i never said it was weak but it isnt that overpowered and unique like you tried to show. docs got 1 debuff, good heals and we want to keep our average dmg. whats overpowered with that?
we dont want evades,absorb, stuns, huge dmg perks, nano leech buffs, huge ar or roots/snares like the other profs have. your " 1 prof for all" statement is abit far fetched

[mdk00420]

I said one of the most, not the most powerful. how it effects certain professions is a moot point as some are unaffected while others are severely crippled by it. Enforcers being unaffected by it doesn't mean UBT is weak, that's like saying NTs off focus nuke damage is weak because they'll never kill a doc. Most other professions would disagree.

Thats just part of the way the game was made. Some things are meant to be very powerful against certain professions. I agree that a low lvl NT would suffer tremendously against a doctors UBT, but at high lvl the NT will have no problem at all. Their NR will be so high that it will take luck and persistence to land UBT on them. And once it lands it hardly effects them when they have 3k nano init, and there are several ways to rid UBT if it becomes a problem which makes the doc go through that procedure again.

But like I said, thats just how the game works. While we are talking about UBT, GTH, NSD, etc... what about LE nanos? Some of them are profession targeted specific and are incredibly strong. I would like to think fill inbox is a very effective nano against crats (which are very strong against doctors). But why don't we have anything for shades? No chance your going to evade their perks. Its just how the game was made. It's been that way since... well since I started in 2006. I can't speak for when the game was actually brought into existence. But at least 7 1/2 years it's been like this. And it's going to continue being like this. Funcom will never, I repeat, never... be able to balance this game, especially within every level range. If your so upset about a certain profession, start a new character and make it that professions weak spot. You mad doctors UBT is so powerful? Make a shade, MP, crat, NT, Trader, or an enfo because each one of those professions has a very good chance of killing a doc. even if the doctor is more geared out.

But don't stop there because when you make one of those professions, your just going to end up in the same exact situation. Go make a shade and get owned by a soldier. Go make an enfo and get owend by a shade. Go make a soldier and get owned by an NT, go make a doctor and get owned by a shade. Go make an engi and get owned by a doc and that list goes on far longer then what I want to type lol.

[alfora]

It seems this discussion moved from "Docs got nerfed in PvM" to "Balance in PvP".

[Teeko]

I never said docs got nerfed in pvm....My entire complaint is they took away all a doc's pvp offensive capabilities. Soldiers can now pretty much last indefinitely against a doc...we can't put enough damage on them in their ams downtime and they heal up during AMS, all the while alphaing me hoping to get me

[Kinkstaah]

Here's a good idea, lets merge all profs into one since almost everyone in this game expects their favored profs to be a jack of all trades.

They did this, it's called TSW.

It works better than you think.

[lunarsolace]

Even wow is learning balance has different forms. There is 1 on 1 pvp balance. Then, there's group vs group balance. The two are generally inversely proportional. I know 1 on 1 pvper's have had a decent following over the years. Group vs group has always attracted more players.

I am all for docs having a stance or buff that gives a heal eff debuff of say 50% and has some serious offensive gains.

[drakio]

you forgot advies in every year

He forgot even Nts from 2007.