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Thread: Monthly Development Update - August 2014

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Krisalee View Post
    I dunno, I think the addition of Shadowlands more than justifies the subscription price, and I think the RK content alone is compelling and robust enough to give a free player a great experience. Perhaps opening Nascence as a froob-facing teaser would be good, and allowing some SL only items, but I wouldn't make the whole expansion free. However, I'm not opposed to the idea of a lowered subscription price given the title's age. I don't mind the price where it is, but it's an older title, and the precedent is there.

    For comparable titles, Ultima Online (now nearly 17 years old) is $12.99 and has no f2p variant. I don't mind subscription costs as long as I can afford them, and I actually prefer to pay for older games just for the sake of supporting them, so I'm fine at this price for UO.

    Asheron's Call is now Buy-to-Play with the promise of zero future development, but before development ceased earlier this year it was a cool $9.99 monthly. It's about 15 years old, I believe?

    And as for Everquest, while it does have a free option, SOE has done something unique. For $14.99 / month, you get a sub to *all* of their games: EQ, EQ2, DCUO, Planetside/Planetside 2, and it will include EQNext when it's released. I'm probably missing one, but I can't be bothered to check, as I only play EQ and occasionally EQ2.

    It's worked pretty darn well for SOE, and it may be effective at Funcom to leave the sub cost where it is, but make it "all access." I do play TSW as well, and I know several other players who do, and/or AOC. "One sub to rule them all" would likely encourage more microtransactions across the board, and may even entice some AOC and TSW vets to give AO a try.
    See this is where the problem lies. YOU think the subscription prices is OK because you're paying it in $. We're paying it in € and £.

    Here you go:

    AO 1 month sub:

    $14.95
    €17.19
    £13.70

    €/£ to $ conversion: $22.28

    Comparable subscription costs:

    WoW: £8.99 (Soon to be £9.99)/€12.99
    EVE: £9.99/€14.95
    UO: £7.99/€10
    EQ2: £9.21/€11.57

    Do you see the problem yet?
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    See this is where the problem lies. YOU think the subscription prices is OK because you're paying it in $. We're paying it in € and £.

    Here you go:

    AO 1 month sub:

    $14.95
    €17.19
    £13.70

    €/£ to $ conversion: $22.28

    Comparable subscription costs:

    WoW: £8.99 (Soon to be £9.99)/€12.99
    EVE: £9.99/€14.95
    UO: £7.99/€10
    EQ2: £9.21/€11.57

    Do you see the problem yet?
    I'd heard that this was an issue too. I wasn't sure if this problem still exited, nor was I aware of its extent, so I didn't speak to it. If this conversion is accurate, then you're absolutely right and it should be addressed.
    Aldebaran "Krisanthe" Fairchild, Director
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    Kathryn "Krisaria" Fairchild, Medical Officer

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  3. #203
    Well lets look at it price from another perspective also. Lets assume the developers make a modest $15/hour. For a full month of work at 40hours per week that would require 160 subscriptions just to pay 1 persons salary. Now do the math on how many people are working on AO, lets say 5 (that's 800 subscriptions). Then add in the executives salary, electric bill, water bill, building rent etc. I doubt they can afford to lower price honestly. It's been said that there are between 2k-5k subscriptions (that seems like a lot to me actually) where is the profit that keeps this game on life support going to come from if sub price is reduced?
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Well lets look at it price from another perspective also. Lets assume the developers make a modest $15/hour. For a full month of work at 40hours per week that would require 160 subscriptions just to pay 1 persons salary. Now do the math on how many people are working on AO, lets say 5 (that's 800 subscriptions). Then add in the executives salary, electric bill, water bill, building rent etc. I doubt they can afford to lower price honestly. It's been said that there are between 2k-5k subscriptions (that seems like a lot to me actually) where is the profit that keeps this game on life support going to come from if sub price is reduced?
    With the return of people who have already said the game is not worth it's EU price anymore. Also the game isn't run off one single pot of money, other game revenue filters into the continued development of AO AND the devs working on it, who also work on all the the other FC titles. AOs sub costs do not exclusively pay for the dev salaries.

    Besides, a large majority of the AO population is now USA based, simply because of this one reason. Why should we pay so much more for the same product?
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by UNIDENTIFIED View Post
    . But as i can see, most of us agreed on the current monthly fees in AO is not attractive to the MMORPG market, and needs update.
    Correct.
    One profession to RoO them all, one profession to proc stun them, one profession to calm them all and in the darkness Exp perk them!

    Crataiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution - 3rd AI 30 'Crat on RK 1 Setup
    Calms 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution
    Medicaiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution Setup
    Newen 220/30/70 President - The Galactic Milieu
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  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Krisalee View Post
    I'd heard that this was an issue too. I wasn't sure if this problem still exited, nor was I aware of its extent, so I didn't speak to it. If this conversion is accurate, then you're absolutely right and it should be addressed.
    Is IS correct and current.
    One profession to RoO them all, one profession to proc stun them, one profession to calm them all and in the darkness Exp perk them!

    Crataiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution - 3rd AI 30 'Crat on RK 1 Setup
    Calms 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution
    Medicaiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution Setup
    Newen 220/30/70 President - The Galactic Milieu
    Mettagirl 220/20/** General - Primal Evolution
    Krataiken 150/18/40 General - Primal Evolution Setup

  7. #207
    Formatting on my post got destroyed for some reason! lolI've also seen some of your other answers and you seem to be more understanding of the reality of the market so I'll retract some of the now unnecessary bits.I'll humor you and I'll answer, I've spend about 3-4k FC points in the shop in the last 6 months. a Neutral App form, 1 Character Transfer and plenty of twinking buff cans while getting some gear on several toons. I've also bought a couple of GRACE. I'm not sure how you factor that in, since it's technically not in the item shop, but it's a paid item.. you tell me. - EDIT: I'm a paid player and if I had a smaller cost monthly I'd likely indulge more on the item shop as well. It has some conveniences for whenever I don't have the time to wait for a buff or want to transfer a toon between my sub-accounts for whatever reason. Currently I just wait until I have enough disposable income to not care about the purchase. If I paid less, I'd wait less.That said, the 2-5k paid subs seems about right. And if reducing the price (and equalizing it cross-currency!) would come at the same time as a marketing push with SL added to the free experience, a renewed pay for convenience-type item shop and content gating (not P2W) and the new engine.. yeah it would very likely be enough to pay the bills and then some.EDIT: Having serious issues with formatting, I'll fix the wall of text syndrome as soon as I figure out what's causing it.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Sep 17th, 2014 at 00:13:36.
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    --
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    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
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    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
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  8. #208
    Dear Funcom Marketing Department,

    The last active remaining, and loyal gamers of AO has spoken. In order to bring AO back to life and hopefully to a new golden age, please do following:

    Plan A) Lower monthly subscriptions fee so AO can match the market and compete with other MMORPG, and release 2 useless expansions pack Shadowlands and Lost Eden to the froobs. While keeping AI and Xan for subscribers only.

    If plan A doesnt works, kindly proceed to:

    Plan B) Build a interesting F2P model that is balanced and suits AO gameplay, then release the whole game for "free".

    If none of mentioned above are implemented shortly, i believe AO will DIE

    Good luck

    Best Regards,
    . . . everything in creation is impermanenT

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Also the game isn't run off one single pot of money, other game revenue filters into the continued development of AO AND the devs working on it, who also work on all the the other FC titles. AOs sub costs do not exclusively pay for the dev salaries.
    No subs probably do not pay dev salaries exclusively, but where do you think the "numbers" come from that continue to state AO is maintaining positive revenue for FC? I would bet money the subscriptions primarily are responsible. Changing or taking away subs will most certainly have an effect on that bottom line that the executives look at.

    Now we can all speculate how players will react to a change in the current format. I would have no doubt that a F2P model would at minimum double or triple the population in free SL zones. 50-75%% of which would be former froob bank accounts of players. The problem with these hypothetical arguments is that there is no way to know or gauge longevity of item shop purchases.

    Some players say they would buy items monthly (I still don't believe it would equal there sub price for a year = cash loss for AO) I personally have no intention of ever buying item shop things. Because I don't need them. I have end game toons and can farm or raid for anything I could possibly want.

    So then it comes down to convincing new players to not only come to a 12yrs+ old game but to basically fund it long into the future with micro transactions. Seriously??? You would stake a bet on long term AO making it with a player base that changes games almost monthly? Between the candy crushes, zynga pokers, tank battles, first person shooters and god wars you really think AO could keep up with that kind of competition? Not to mention the new MMO's that pop out every 6months on top of the current MMO's with new expansions etc etc.

    Do you really not see the competition AO has to deal with and it is losing the battle. The current subscribers are probably the only thing keeping AO servers on, because at the end of the day it comes down to the bottom line in business. It's low risk, all reward with the current subscriber model, once subscriptions fall to a level where it's no longer profitable AO will shut down. F2P would just make that happen faster. There is no chance in he11 as a business person you would not milk AO for every penny it's worth by lowering subscriber pricing "just in case" it would bring new players, or "just in case" people spend money equal to or greater than current subscribers. Seriously stop thinking like a player and think like an executive. They are not interested in maybe, they are interested in numbers.

    Numbers say "A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush".
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  10. #210
    Dear Psikie

    Old game is not the same as bad games.
    I play 30 years old Tetris everyday, not only playing but completing it once or twice everyday, and the fastest way to complete Tetris is starting at level 9 on the get go, and survive pass 50.000 points.
    Once you complete Tetris, it will show you a video of a rocket lunching, its pretty awesome video for so old game and you should try it.

    However, i understand that buying/selling business is not for everyone, and can be compared to magic. Some people will never understands how it works, or how there are people making a living by selling crap.
    If business is easy to understand, everyone would be business men, and noone will buy crap.

    Best Regards,
    . . . everything in creation is impermanenT

  11. #211
    Even if the game transitions to an f2p model and starts making more money as a result, none of that money is likely to be invested back into AO, which leaves us pretty much right back where we started.

  12. #212
    We will have the new fall offer next month and it will be garbage like the last one. A few pissy garbage implants a froob would delete as a bonus.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    If the game doesn't go F2P (with an updated Item Shop model), it will shut down at some point in the near future.
    I don't think making ao a virtual store would work either. A game must offer a game, not kite/ost >>> lootrights.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    See this is where the problem lies. YOU think the subscription prices is OK because you're paying it in $. We're paying it in € and £.

    Here you go:

    AO 1 month sub:

    $14.95
    €17.19
    £13.70

    €/£ to $ conversion: $22.28
    Hours working minimum wage to afford 1 month of game-time:

    US: 2.06
    UK: 2.17

    The countries using the Euro that can't afford 1 month of game-time in similar or less time are countries like Spain, Greece, Portugal, Estonia, Latvia. The lowest minimum wage I can find in Europe is Georgia at a rate equivalent to 0.24 Euros/hour. Now they would have problems. It would take them 71.6 hours of minimum wage to afford 1 month of AO gametime. The issue isn't as cut-and-dry as you'd like to make it out to be.

  15. #215
    Think your missing the point there Esssch its not about breaking it down into how many hours of work it would take to afford the subs, its about perception. People will compare this product next to another product and they will go for the cheaper one.

    Now as much as I think AO is a great game the fact of the matter is it does not have people banging down the door to play it, if it did then it could charge whatever it wanted. AO is gearing itself for a supposed relaunch on steam with a whole new starting area to entice people in or back to the game. The fact of the matter is this will all be a none starter unless Funcom think long and hard about there sub prices.

    Whether you think it is a fair price or not will not have todays market wanting to pay nearly double the price of a standard sub for a game.

    Personally I think Funcom are happy to keep things as they are and will not be willing to take any risks with relaunching AO. They have a small dedicated player base that probably pays just enough to keep the lights on and they will stick with that until it dwindles down to a point were they shut off the lights and close the door to AO. I do hope I'm wrong though

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Hours working minimum wage to afford 1 month of game-time:

    US: 2.06
    UK: 2.17

    The countries using the Euro that can't afford 1 month of game-time in similar or less time are countries like Spain, Greece, Portugal, Estonia, Latvia. The lowest minimum wage I can find in Europe is Georgia at a rate equivalent to 0.24 Euros/hour. Now they would have problems. It would take them 71.6 hours of minimum wage to afford 1 month of AO gametime. The issue isn't as cut-and-dry as you'd like to make it out to be.
    This isn't about being able to afford the sub, it's about the huge price disparity between two locations for absolutely no reason.

    Why should we pay 49% more than the USA simply because of geographical location for the exact same DIGITAL product?
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  17. #217
    "Numbers say "A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush"."

    Agreed, well posted.

    Current Subs pay for the game, total Free to play model would assume what? 5x more numbers? Really?

    People don't even play brand spanking new F2P games. and 15€ is practically free to play these days. People who want to play AO already play it.

    Dropping price wouldn't multiply population. F2P model might work 10 years ago... but now everyone is doing it, only real way forward for AO is current model with much improved gameplay. Keep veterans happy, and pray to the god they share it with others. Maybe advertise new model and try to work on being the longest running MMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    This isn't about being able to afford the sub, it's about the huge price disparity between two locations for absolutely no reason.

    Why should we pay 49% more than the USA simply because of geographical location for the exact same DIGITAL product?
    I agree, and on top of that the half arsed development effort that we see Funcom is putting into the game doesn't justify that price. It's not good value for money.
    Why?

  19. #219
    FC's stubborn insistance on screwing over the EU payerbase (not a typo) by charging more - above and beyond tax differences - for the same product is mind-boggling.

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    This isn't about being able to afford the sub, it's about the huge price disparity between two locations for absolutely no reason.

    Why should we pay 49% more than the USA simply because of geographical location for the exact same DIGITAL product?
    You also get paid roughly 49% more per hour. Why should we get paid less than the UK simply because of geographical location? We have the largest economy in the world, we should be paid more. Wahwahwah. It's been how many years since Europeans brought up the price disparity? It hasn't changed yet, even when you try to change almost every thread into a whinefest about it. Either pay the money or don't pay it, either way please stop QQ'ing, you crybabies.

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