Addressing the state of game

[Psikie]

I would have to agree. I have dual logged my MP on follow with heal pet on an alt while leveling in a dungeon but I've never multiboxed and doubt that I ever would.

[Samcon]

Multiboxing is just plain dirty in PvP and it doesn't promote PvP or fun in any way. It only serves as another reason for people to flex epeens and send people packing back to other games. The devs won't do anything about it, so players need to. If we just didn't multibox in PvP, this wouldn't be an issue

It's a matter of sportsmanship. Some people simply don't see the game that way, so they will cheat at any cost to "win". Which in reality is the hallmark of a loser. Instead of bettering your toon (isn't that the point of an RPG?) to stand toe to toe with a good twink and win, you make the same time effort to make 5 crap multibox ones with AS so you can powertrip with as little effort as possible and beat one... maybe
It's like losing a boxing match, because the other guy was better then you, then you and your friends knife him in the parking lot and take his belt and declare yourself the winner. It's a lack of respect on the part of the people that do it for their opponents and the community, ostracize them, attack them even if they are on your own "side" because they are not on the side of good PvP. Blacklist the orgs that harbor them and hit them in 5% If you want the community policed you are going to have to do it yourselves.

[Samcon]

Addressing the issues of the OP:

One of the largest issues with having players casually PvP is the difference in gear and setups used in the current state of the game. It is what keeps it exclusive and keeps players away.

Let's roll back to pre-LE

Defensive setups in pvp worked, you were actually hard to kill as an evade profession, or a "tanky survival solo" build that most people used for solo and team PvE. You were not overpowered, because your offensive capability wasn't specifically tuned to pvp, but you felt like you could contribute. You stayed alive, you hit people, you saw action. So lets talk about aimed shot, and the weapons that were added as band-aids to under-performing support profs with or after this expansion. Silverback, Tiger/tigress, and later the nail in the coffin, the dastardly AS pistol. Instead of getting real tools, they got to press O for lots more damage. Look at the prior AS options (everyone used them too, even melee users swapped) and how ithicas, craphanders, pow bows, supernovas and their ilk compare to those new shinies. That's an increase of a LOT of incoming un-evadeable damage. And it is a skill that NOBODY but agents use in PvE, but most professions expected to have it to compete at the top. Attack ratings saw huge boosts out of line with defense in research and equipment as well. LE/LOX era added some nice PvE stuff, but the imbalance to PvP was too much.

To fix the wounds the rotting bandages need to be removed so we can see what we are dealing with. Get rid of these garbage weapons and the current AS/sneak meta, and give unique tools that bring balance across the board.
Stunprocs are gone, trippples will soon be the Dodo. So let's get with the times, unify and #sayNOtoAS

[Humlee]

1. Don't play with them (we see the ****e girls log, we log off and do something else)

But do we get to see him login when he actually logs in??????


The answer is no, and it's just one among many game breaking actions taken by this certain player.

[Xootch]

But do we get to see him login when he actually logs in??????


The answer is no, and it's just one among many game breaking actions taken by this certain player.

foob broke ao. got it. move along.

[Freor]

I've noticed that on the forums people tend to complain about multiboxing in PvP and pretty much say "I don't think anyone cares if you multibox in PvM." I pretty much had the same stance, tbh, until a few nights ago when I experienced the negative of multiboxing in PvM. After farming wave after wave of adds at the resurrecting swamp hag spot (biodome key), a multi-boxer in devil inside just came up and insta-ganked the final boss that drops the actual key part. I'm usually not one to care one way or the other about getting OD'd on a mob (using a Trader to farm inf dynas has thickened my skin to such things) but I was so put off by what happened that I logged out of game, for the better part of 3 days and just played something else.

I couldn't imagine if I had to deal with that everytime I went to farm an inf dyna, biodome key or any other outdoor/non-instanced mob spawn. It would be irritating to the point where I'm sure I'd stop playing the game.

FC should have seen this coming a year ago when Lonely started the boxing play. Or at least they should have listened to the people who tried to warn them. This whole MB crap should have been stopped there. Failing that, it should have been stopped when it escalated with Foob copying the idea with NT and agent army. Stopping it yesterday would still have been better than doing it today. And stopping it today is still better than waiting for tomorrow. Boxing has already killed NW, it will only escalate further if left untouched. I asked this a year ago and ask it again: How many new players is FC hoping to keep when they see what is required to be competitive?

Everyone has different opinion on Means, but that guy had the balls to admit when they were wrong, and fixed the last NW-killing FC mistake before MB: Omni SB+OS. AO has a new GD once again, we'll see if he has the balls to do the same in current situation.

It's a matter of sportsmanship. Some people simply don't see the game that way, so they will cheat at any cost to "win". Which in reality is the hallmark of a loser. Instead of bettering your toon (isn't that the point of an RPG?) to stand toe to toe with a good twink and win, you make the same time effort to make 5 crap multibox ones with AS so you can powertrip with as little effort as possible and beat one... maybe

Ditto!

[Humlee]

foob broke ao. got it. move along.

Your endless devils advocating is getting pretty tiresome, if u cant call a spade a spade you should reconsider your biases.

[Synnor]

Every MMO PvPer I've befriend over my 13 years of MMO experience now play Mobas for their PvP fix.

Without any statistics to back it up I'd say this is the case in the majority. I don't see people coming back to MMOs to PvP in the future when Mobas provide a similar, yet totally dedicated experience.

[Xootch]

Your endless devils advocating is getting pretty tiresome, if u cant call a spade a spade you should reconsider your biases.

got it. foob is the devil. move on now?

[Psikie]

It's a matter of sportsmanship. Some people simply don't see the game that way, so they will cheat at any cost to "win". Which in reality is the hallmark of a loser.

I take exception to this statement. I don't MB but first off it's not cheating. It's a recognized and allowed game mechanic. No different than 1hb/1he that is a game mechanic abuse imo but is that considered "cheating"?

For whatever reason someone may not like MB, don't get all up on a high horse like those that do not MB are somehow better than those that do. It would be a complete lie to say we all don't manipulate the game when an opportunity presents itself. ANY AND EVERYONE does it to the ai when we pvm, things like using landscape to avoid mobs or ranged weapon kiting. OSB could be considered cheating in lowbie pvp and hell even twinking could be considered cheating in the strictest terms because you have manipulated a game mechanic to exceed what your toon can do on it's own.

Now I cant help it if someone spent 3 months and 3 billion credits making the perfect uber toon and you get trounced by 5 froob AS toons made in 2 days. But how much loot right buying did you do? Did you actually take that toon and farm every single piece of ql300 ai armor or db modules with that toon? Probably not. So you have a philosophical difference of opinion of what is "cheating" and we can leave it at that.

But remember the higher the horse you are the longer the fall.

[Aiken]

Well said Psikie.

[Caloss2]

I take exception to this statement. I don't MB but first off it's not cheating. It's a recognized and allowed game mechanic. No different than 1hb/1he that is a game mechanic abuse imo but is that considered "cheating"?

For whatever reason someone may not like MB, don't get all up on a high horse like those that do not MB are somehow better than those that do. It would be a complete lie to say we all don't manipulate the game when an opportunity presents itself. ANY AND EVERYONE does it to the ai when we pvm, things like using landscape to avoid mobs or ranged weapon kiting. OSB could be considered cheating in lowbie pvp and hell even twinking could be considered cheating in the strictest terms because you have manipulated a game mechanic to exceed what your toon can do on it's own.

Now I cant help it if someone spent 3 months and 3 billion credits making the perfect uber toon and you get trounced by 5 froob AS toons made in 2 days. But how much loot right buying did you do? Did you actually take that toon and farm every single piece of ql300 ai armor or db modules with that toon? Probably not. So you have a philosophical difference of opinion of what is "cheating" and we can leave it at that.

But remember the higher the horse you are the longer the fall.

I suppose if you can financially afford (several accounts) to exploit the fact FC doesn't have the resources to police MB so it's been left as it is, doesn't make it right or moral, just the exploitation of a situation to serve ones self.
Something mankind is pretty good at. :/

[Teeko]

I take exception to this statement. I don't MB but first off it's not cheating. It's a recognized and allowed game mechanic. No different than 1hb/1he that is a game mechanic abuse imo but is that considered "cheating"?

For whatever reason someone may not like MB, don't get all up on a high horse like those that do not MB are somehow better than those that do. It would be a complete lie to say we all don't manipulate the game when an opportunity presents itself. ANY AND EVERYONE does it to the ai when we pvm, things like using landscape to avoid mobs or ranged weapon kiting. OSB could be considered cheating in lowbie pvp and hell even twinking could be considered cheating in the strictest terms because you have manipulated a game mechanic to exceed what your toon can do on it's own.

Now I cant help it if someone spent 3 months and 3 billion credits making the perfect uber toon and you get trounced by 5 froob AS toons made in 2 days. But how much loot right buying did you do? Did you actually take that toon and farm every single piece of ql300 ai armor or db modules with that toon? Probably not. So you have a philosophical difference of opinion of what is "cheating" and we can leave it at that.

But remember the higher the horse you are the longer the fall.

Except I don't buy lootrights. And my toon is a product of years of refining and decision making. It's just the fact that it's cheap. If a 220 kills me, ok. But when 5 175s kill you because of multiboxing it's frustrating. Oh and my enforcer is not 1hb/1he either

I could care less if people multibox in pvm, it's just more efficient. But in actual PvP, could 5 175 agents kill me? Maybe in theory, but probably not in practice.

[Psikie]

I suppose if you can financially afford (several accounts) to exploit the fact FC doesn't have the resources to police MB so it's been left as it is, doesn't make it right or moral, just the exploitation of a situation to serve ones self.

You mean like having a froob bank toon or froob buff toons right? Something im sure you don't do correct? Because logging on multiple toons to serve one's self would be wrong and immoral and an exploitation of the situation.

Except I don't buy lootrights. And my toon is a product of years of refining and decision making. It's just the fact that it's cheap. If a 220 kills me, ok. But when 5 175s kill you because of multiboxing it's frustrating.

Just for arguments sake im sure you have never been in a pocket team or had OST either. Because some people consider that a form of "cheating" also.

[Teeko]

Multiboxing is something that takes no skill. No effort. One button. Osting usually takes some work from someone (ost,nt) bit your right. It's all the same, just varying degrees. What degree is too far? I would say using a program to play 5 toons for you.

[Anonimofied]

There is many forms of cheating, at least two form of cheating, 1. direct cheat and 2. indirect cheat.
Most players think cheating in pvp (direct cheat) is frustrating or annoying, and some dont care if others cheats in pvm (indirect cheat).

[Psikie]

Multiboxing is something that takes no skill. No effort. One button.

This is your argument? Skill? Seriously?

You gotta do better than that to debate on these forums. This is a 12year+ old GAME. Repeat GAME. There is no skill in AO, you have a mouse and a keyboard and probably only use a few hotkeys/hotbars. WTF skill? Xbox and PS require more "skill" if that's the term you want to use lol. Every time I read that in a post it just tickles me. Skill would be more like welding or woodcarving. Throwing a 95mph fastball into a strike zone, putting a golf ball from 30 feet, even long range 3points shot in basketball.

If you had said style or even strategy I would have let it go. Although having 5 toons to kill 1 player is actually a fantastic strategy imo lol, even if it is frowned upon.

[Caloss2]

You mean like having a froob bank toon or froob buff toons right? Something im sure you don't do correct? Because logging on multiple toons to serve one's self would be wrong and immoral and an exploitation of the situation.



Just for arguments sake im sure you have never been in a pocket team or had OST either. Because some people consider that a form of "cheating" also.

Well to answer your attempt at misdirection, the ( trying to make it about someone else, or vaguely try to put someone on the defensive because ... guessing you have no actual valid argument there) tack you've taken there, on Caloss2 nope every thread of gear he has and every single point of xp he has, was done through raiding, and team play, because MB and OST didn't exist at that time, nor did a realistic ability of most players to log more than one toon without crashing.
And lets face it, you can't equate trading bags to a fr00b toon and back compared to playing 5 other toons as you hit a macro and destroy a game, is not nearly the same thing, your argument is as valid as saying "I stamped a cat to death" but "you stood on some bacteria so it's the same" it's not, and you know it's not.

[Psikie]

And lets face it, you can't equate trading bags to a fr00b toon and back compared to playing 5 other toons as you hit a macro and destroy a game, is not nearly the same thing, your argument is as valid as saying "I stamped a cat to death" but "you stood on some bacteria so it's the same" it's not, and you know it's not.

Don't get mad if I use your words against you. You are the one that said, "doesn't make it right or moral, just the exploitation of a situation to serve ones self." I was agreeing with you but I wanted to make sure you did not make "exceptions" to that philosophy that just served ones self.

Now I did say..."you have a philosophical difference of opinion of what is "cheating" and we can leave it at that." But I can only assume you wanted to debate the subject further so...I am in debate mode now and you better bring your A game.

You cat argument holds zero weight if I came from a culture that hates cats like you might hate getting the flu, I wouldn't care if a cat was stomped. A better way to spell that would take it another step, some Asian cultures worship cows and would never think of eating them. But in the USA no one blinks at a slaughter house before having a burger and fries. Further still some people believe any form of killing is wrong, stomped cats, insects, plants, and bacteria.

Its still a matter of opinion pure and simple. Some things you might look at as no big deal or small potatoes, while others might think it is huge. Multiboxing personally is no big deal to me because I don't have towers, and rarely go to battle station. But to others that log on exclusively for towers or bat station might find it a big deal. Get it?

I think it's hypocritical to say your way of playing is the only "legal" way and anyone who doesn't play like you do is "cheating".
You have logged multiple toons on in AO and guess what so has the multiboxer.

[Traderjill]

Some of these arguments are kinda pointless.

Right/Wrong, Good/Bad. What difference does it make?

As someone that plays mmorpg's (as opposed to single player rpg's) I pretty much lump sum things into two categories: 1. Actions that promote teamplay and encourage active subscribers. 2. Actions that do not.

I think what most people mean when they say that activity X is wrong is that it doesn't fall in what I listed as category 1 above.

Someone doing something to piss off 1 guy.. no big deal. When some person or group is doing something that makes a noticeable dent in the population then, from a MMO standpoint, something has gone wrong. There's no need to turn anyone into a saint or a sinner in a virtual world where we're killing people, wildlife, etc on a daily basis.

Just my 2 cents.