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Thread: Monthly Development Update - September 2014

  1. #81
    EIS, while I would like to see some penumbra action, I rather don't want to see FC take any course of action against Penumbra, simply, because playerbase uses game mechanics as they want, so - if it spossible - they skip Pen. There are 3 reasons for that: 1) 220 players in inf often do the content for them (like leveling via killing) 2)XP reward is better 3) its easier - now, you must be aware, that if there is easier way to gain XP, players will always do this easy way.

    It's like, I would like to see Ely lvl locked for players 70-100, because much content is skipped in Nascence... And there is no Sheol content whatsoever for players to do...

    I am happy, that FC introduces new way of SK gain and focus to make diverse where ppl actually are, not where they aren't.
    I like PvP
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  2. #82
    How naive can you be Pom? Do you really think it is the players who decide where they will go? If the devs decided to give capped xp/sk/axp bonuses (and combined armor sets as loot ofc) to Polly and her friends where do you think all the players would go?

    There may be a few instances of players finding a workaround or a way to exploit some bug, but even then in almost all cases it is the devs decision to fix or not the abuse.

    In AO's case the problem has been, for the most part, that devs have cared more about creating a new instance to add to their work portfolio then to fix the game and make it playable.

    Do you really think that a new xp farm will create variety? Either it will make leveling easier/faster than Inferno missions or it wont. Either way one of the two will quickly become obsolete.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpynoob View Post
    How naive can you be Pom? Do you really think it is the players who decide where they will go? If the devs decided to give capped xp/sk/axp bonuses (and combined armor sets as loot ofc) to Polly and her friends where do you think all the players would go?

    There may be a few instances of players finding a workaround or a way to exploit some bug, but even then in almost all cases it is the devs decision to fix or not the abuse.

    In AO's case the problem has been, for the most part, that devs have cared more about creating a new instance to add to their work portfolio then to fix the game and make it playable.

    Do you really think that a new xp farm will create variety? Either it will make leveling easier/faster than Inferno missions or it wont. Either way one of the two will quickly become obsolete.
    Gauntlet,db3,collector, all fail. I will have to pay 1b credits to get loot out of gauntlet on my alt the way it is now in game with the unhealthy low population and the 1-2 teams that actually do it. DB3 so hard casuals can't do it so they become credit debtors to players that can. Collector I don't know where you start to point out the flaws at this point.

    I don't really think its the devs I think what exists is some obscure corp mandate by FC telling them to create new useless crap on a regular interval as busy work for the players to keep paying. In all the years and all the GDs when have we ever seen one whole long term patch cycle to fix bugs and flaws in lets say past 5 years without adding new garbage.

  4. #84
    DB3 is NOT hard. It does, however, require you to play one of the "big four" profs or be excluded. It's an easy encounter that people blow out of proportion somehow.

    The lack of teams from gauntlet comes from the low population. That said, me + 1 mate managed to farm things for 4 characters there without much of an issue after gearing up decently elsewhere.. so your mileage may vary.

    Collector is weird and I've only done it as a doctor so I can't really say that much about it. Certainly wasn't hard, though..

    The problem with AO is the low population.. and even that seems to be picking up somewhat (I've gotten more legit and level appropriate teams in the last few weeks than I had in years). But luck is a factor as there are timezones involved.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
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    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

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    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    DB3 is NOT hard. It does, however, require you to play one of the "big four" profs or be excluded. It's an easy encounter that people blow out of proportion somehow.
    I always considered the fantastic four to be doctor/enforcer/crat/soldier. My experience in DB3 has found that other professions are more helpful in that instance than most other instances in the game. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a crat isn't really necessary for DB3. I did the instance once where I only logged my crat for the odd numbered floors to be able to mezz and was on a different profession for the main boss floors. Really any mezz profession could've filled in, tbh. Fixers and Engies also seem to come in handy and an advy for some extra support healing certainly doesn't hurt. Without making an overly long post I can think of several different combinations of toons that could successfully pull off DB3.

    I think the biggest issue is that people in AO just aren't used to any sort of boss mechanics and players have an overall low tolerance for death. I've been in teams where after 1 wipe, you start losing people and having to rebuild. If you can't go in, clean house and move on.. most people don't want to be bothered anymore. The most difficult (if you want to call it that.. annoying might be a better term) floor of the entire instance is the fire floor and that's moreso a problem due to client/server synch problems than anything else. Once that floor is done, the rest is extremely easy, I agree.
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  6. #86
    Yet again not a single bs/pvp improvement (no I do not consider daily xp missions that only attract gimps in gimp gear an improvement, just a bad band-aid fix for leveling).

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Yet again not a single bs/pvp improvement (no I do not consider daily xp missions that only attract gimps in gimp gear an improvement, just a bad band-aid fix for leveling).
    Lets be serious here. The only real problems in PvP are the following:

    AS Pistols.
    MR.
    Trader Drains pre TL6.
    Meep/Grief in Towers.
    Multiboxing.
    Maybe Enf 1hb/1he perk checks.

    4/6 of these are being fixed in 18.7

    What more can realistically be done?
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    AS Pistols.
    Multiboxing.
    Slapping aimed shot on weapons to 'fix' professions is bad, but multiboxing is only powerfull because special-attacks are instant (and because of uber teambuffs that doesn't encourage teaming). If they had a load-time (Player has targeted you for aimed shot!!) so a player can react and dodge in realtime it would help a lot. If a player is out of range/los after the loading-time you can't shoot. Then bring back profession-defining nanotech. Today we all so similar and cookiecutter.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    I always considered the fantastic four to be doctor/enforcer/crat/soldier. My experience in DB3 has found that other professions are more helpful in that instance than most other instances in the game. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a crat isn't really necessary for DB3. I did the instance once where I only logged my crat for the odd numbered floors to be able to mezz and was on a different profession for the main boss floors. Really any mezz profession could've filled in, tbh. Fixers and Engies also seem to come in handy and an advy for some extra support healing certainly doesn't hurt. Without making an overly long post I can think of several different combinations of toons that could successfully pull off DB3.

    I think the biggest issue is that people in AO just aren't used to any sort of boss mechanics and players have an overall low tolerance for death. I've been in teams where after 1 wipe, you start losing people and having to rebuild. If you can't go in, clean house and move on.. most people don't want to be bothered anymore. The most difficult (if you want to call it that.. annoying might be a better term) floor of the entire instance is the fire floor and that's moreso a problem due to client/server synch problems than anything else. Once that floor is done, the rest is extremely easy, I agree.
    I didn't explain myself well in one important way. By the "big four" requirement I didn't mean it was something good or helpful to actually doing the instance, just that it's the current requirement to get a team for it.
    It can and should be done with others! (my main is a NT and I'd love to get a DB3 team.. but I know I have a snowball's chance in hell to get one so I'm forced to go on my doc instead, sell and eventually buy on my NT.. it's just sad).
    I have a decent tank enforcer as well that I'd love to take to DB3.. but in that particular instance soldiers seem to be preferred so I'm likely also out of luck there.

    I agree with everything you've said in your post.
    I'm one of those "you learn by dying" kind of people (mostly applies to the first few times running any content) so I generally die, run back to wherever I was, rezz, and try again.. which would be great if teams didn't fall apart after a couple wipes as you've mentioned.
    Sadly, there's no real solution FC can provide to fix that as it's the players' fault.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Lets be serious here. The only real problems in PvP are the following:

    AS Pistols.
    MR.
    Trader Drains pre TL6.
    Meep/Grief in Towers.
    Multiboxing.
    Maybe Enf 1hb/1he perk checks.

    4/6 of these are being fixed in 18.7

    What more can realistically be done?
    Well, Michi showed he seems to be willing to revert past decisions if they turned out wrong. BS rewards was one of them. At least I'm interested in seeing if he has what it takes to revert certain decisions made a little over year ago regarding boxing, and bring NW back. Preferably in improved state even (level ranges etc, hint hint ).

  11. #91
    Well the game is running out of time. I don't have any of the big four only a keeper which is semi useful in 12man. I can never get a team and my toons are treated as parasites. Which if you think about it, they are to some extent. I don't want to play a diseased piece of filth nor do people want to team with them. I have no intent on rolling one of the big four clicking cancel and letting this rot and watching it eventually close would bring more joy to my heart at this point.

    My advise at this point is remove them from the game. The dodo bird went extinct for a reason. These professions are unfit to survive remove them from the game..

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by doctorgore View Post
    Well the game is running out of time. I don't have any of the big four only a keeper which is semi useful in 12man. I can never get a team and my toons are treated as parasites. Which if you think about it, they are to some extent. I don't want to play a diseased piece of filth nor do people want to team with them. I have no intent on rolling one of the big four clicking cancel and letting this rot and watching it eventually close would bring more joy to my heart at this point.

    My advise at this point is remove them from the game. The dodo bird went extinct for a reason. These professions are unfit to survive remove them from the game..
    Maybe you need to remind people of the capabilities of a Keeper.

    I have no trouble getting teams on my Trader when I point out my DPM and the amount of utility I bring to their team. Alot of the current profs are actually very useful to have in a team, but people are so ingrained into the Enf/Crat/Doc mindset, they completely overlook these abilities.

    Keeper brings +DD aura, HP/nano regen to help the Doc, Ward or Reflects which can take the place of an Engy/Soldier if none are available, hell you can even give ACs!

    All on top of the fact that a well-equipped Keeper actually brings pretty competitive DPM.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Maybe you need to remind people of the capabilities of a Keeper.

    I have no trouble getting teams on my Trader when I point out my DPM and the amount of utility I bring to their team. Alot of the current profs are actually very useful to have in a team, but people are so ingrained into the Enf/Crat/Doc mindset, they completely overlook these abilities.

    Keeper brings +DD aura, HP/nano regen to help the Doc, Ward or Reflects which can take the place of an Engy/Soldier if none are available, hell you can even give ACs!

    All on top of the fact that a well-equipped Keeper actually brings pretty competitive DPM.
    The only thing that will help these diseased profs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pWA-M82-tg

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Lets be serious here. The only real problems in PvP are the following:

    AS Pistols.
    MR.
    Trader Drains pre TL6.
    Meep/Grief in Towers.
    Multiboxing.
    Maybe Enf 1hb/1he perk checks.

    4/6 of these are being fixed in 18.7

    What more can realistically be done?
    No, those are just the problems you read about on the forums and they're actually balance issues and not general pvp problems.

    The real problems with pvp are:
    1.) There's no incentive to pvp because there are no rewards -at all-
    2.) Heavily uneven numbers in absolutely every encounter and no mechanic that ensures a fairer fight
    3.) Notum wars, tarasque and battlestation all have terrible and very outdated design

    These are global problems that affect everyone, unlike AS pistols, mongo rage etc. which are problems in their own right but on a smaller (profession/breed/level specific) scale. Just like it is with pvm, people need motivation to pvp and there's no better motivation than being rewarded for your efforts. Anyone who disagrees with me for the sake of argument imagine if all XP and item rewards were removed from pvm encounters; how often would anyone do any pvm content in this game? For most it would be between "never" and "ok I'll try it once" and that's exactly how it is with pvp in AO. For those of us who prefer pvp to pvm this game doesn't offer anything; by strictly pvping you can't even self-sustain a single character (considering the price of heal stims and kits), let alone improve it in any way or build new ones. This is a huge fundamental game design flaw.

  15. #95
    While I don't want to say that everything is going the way it would be nice to see it I would like to point out that many of the complaints about instances are self made problems. I am personally playing fixer as main toon and I would consider me to be a decent db3 player. I have been taken on teams and have run teams myself and the way that you do it is up to you as long as you put the effort into it. When I firststarted db3 runs I started adding those ppl to my friend list that had been nice and managed to stay on the team even if we had deaths while we got rid of those we didn't like due to flames, name calling and whatsoever.
    Also it sure helps to find yourself an active org and form teams with people that you enjoy playing with. I know this should be considered a nobrainer but you guys sound like you were lacking the ability to actually start something off by yourself while waiting for someone to come pick you up to take you out to see db3 or collector or whatever else.
    The current state of the game is not like we all would like it to be and there is sure issues that need to be taken care of when AO is to be improved - but to be honest I think it's not. Db3, Collector or Gauntlet since those can be done by any kind of team or even less than a team.
    If you should need any support on the 3 dungeons that you pointed out to be either to hard or to picky class wise toss me a msg either here or in game and I'm more than happy to take you along

    Regarding the NW issue that was discussed further up there.... One can only hope the MB will be handled soon as there is no such thing like NW until it's been taken care of!
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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Just like it is with pvm, people need motivation to pvp and there's no better motivation than being rewarded for your efforts. Anyone who disagrees with me for the sake of argument imagine if all XP and item rewards were removed from pvm encounters; how often would anyone do any pvm content in this game?

    This is a huge fundamental game design flaw.
    OK here we go...SHENANIGANS!!!

    If memory serves me correctly AO is what's called a mmoRPG. Get that RPG- ROLE PLAYING GAME. Not Tank battles or Call of duty which are primarily pvp games. This is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. In fact pvp was an after thought of the ROLE PLAYING STORYLINE of AO. Notum Wars came way after release, and while different devs have tried to make AO more pvp friendly and accessible AO is not primarily a pvp game. Therefore progression is NOT pvp based it is pvm based to follow along the RPG storyline.

    Let me break it down for you further.

    In Game example-
    Comes to RK for new life, adventure, work, or stranded etc. Either you work for the man "OT", are a rebel "Clan", or don't give 2 cents about either "neutral". All your missions if you actually read them are themed-RPG oriented. You take them as your "jobs" to make a living and progress. Dungeons, dynas, and outdoor mobs are additional ways for an enterprising person to make some extra coin.

    Real Life example-
    If you are in a biker gang, and you knock off a rival gang member, you don't get "paid" for that (that would make you a premeditated psycho murderer) but you might get a new patch aka "pvp title" to put on your leather jacket.

    There are games out there that are pvp first, they usually don't have much if any rpg at all. They also give you a less customization too. So please stop trying to turn AO into something it's not. It is and always has been a RPG with pvp, not the other way around. You want to promote pvp, then promote prof balance.

    News flash Xp rewards will attract people that want Xp to LEVEL as fast as possible and get on to the next area derp derp.

    What you are asking for "rewards" is a band aid fix at best. You will get more activity, from greenies and under geared leveling toons that you want to farm on BS. They will come for the rewards, level, and leave and never return. If you want sustained pvp action you have to make it fun and balanced to give players a reason to want to stay at that lvl range because it's fun. Or to make a dedicated toon for pvp because it's fun. Not to show spend 15-20 min getting AS capped and MR alpha blasted for some dedicated pvp twinks epeen.

    ***I've been on BS rounds were 1/2 players on one side just stood in decon without buffing because they felt it was a waste of time to even try. They were there just there for the "reward". Is THAT what you really want on BS???***
    Last edited by Psikie; Oct 7th, 2014 at 16:26:10.
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Iorekzix View Post
    While I don't want to say that everything is going the way it would be nice to see it I would like to point out that many of the complaints about instances are self made problems. I am personally playing fixer as main toon and I would consider me to be a decent db3 player. I have been taken on teams and have run teams myself and the way that you do it is up to you as long as you put the effort into it. When I firststarted db3 runs I started adding those ppl to my friend list that had been nice and managed to stay on the team even if we had deaths while we got rid of those we didn't like due to flames, name calling and whatsoever.
    Also it sure helps to find yourself an active org and form teams with people that you enjoy playing with. I know this should be considered a nobrainer but you guys sound like you were lacking the ability to actually start something off by yourself while waiting for someone to come pick you up to take you out to see db3 or collector or whatever else.
    The current state of the game is not like we all would like it to be and there is sure issues that need to be taken care of when AO is to be improved - but to be honest I think it's not. Db3, Collector or Gauntlet since those can be done by any kind of team or even less than a team.
    If you should need any support on the 3 dungeons that you pointed out to be either to hard or to picky class wise toss me a msg either here or in game and I'm more than happy to take you along

    Regarding the NW issue that was discussed further up there.... One can only hope the MB will be handled soon as there is no such thing like NW until it's been taken care of!
    You need the big four and they don't need you. Thats the problem how many times I've been in iraid and seen " we have to abort we can't start without 220 doc,enfo." The other garbage profs should be able to tank/heal/suport/dd just as well as the big four without the exception of shade but they can't and don't have the tools to. I blame fc for that.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    No, those are just the problems you read about on the forums and they're actually balance issues and not general pvp problems.

    The real problems with pvp are:
    1.) There's no incentive to pvp because there are no rewards -at all-
    2.) Heavily uneven numbers in absolutely every encounter and no mechanic that ensures a fairer fight
    3.) Notum wars, tarasque and battlestation all have terrible and very outdated design

    These are global problems that affect everyone, unlike AS pistols, mongo rage etc. which are problems in their own right but on a smaller (profession/breed/level specific) scale. Just like it is with pvm, people need motivation to pvp and there's no better motivation than being rewarded for your efforts. Anyone who disagrees with me for the sake of argument imagine if all XP and item rewards were removed from pvm encounters; how often would anyone do any pvm content in this game? For most it would be between "never" and "ok I'll try it once" and that's exactly how it is with pvp in AO. For those of us who prefer pvp to pvm this game doesn't offer anything; by strictly pvping you can't even self-sustain a single character (considering the price of heal stims and kits), let alone improve it in any way or build new ones. This is a huge fundamental game design flaw.
    Can we get married already? I'm tired of you puttering around woman.
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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by doctorgore View Post
    You need the big four and they don't need you. Thats the problem how many times I've been in iraid and seen " we have to abort we can't start without 220 doc,enfo." The other garbage profs should be able to tank/heal/suport/dd just as well as the big four without the exception of shade but they can't and don't have the tools to. I blame fc for that.
    Well that thing about raids is on another plate opposed to your arguing about gaunt, collector and db3 and from my point of view I can only say it would be disastrous if every class would be able to handle the same things since it would bring AO a lot closer to wow. Class diversity is actually something really great and should be kept if not extended. On your argument it would be nice if class diversity was needed for raiding since that would really open up the field for every class to be of a greater use than to just be healer or dd...
    SPARTANS
    We bow down before no man.
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  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    1.) There's no incentive to pvp because there are no rewards -at all-
    2.) Heavily uneven numbers in absolutely every encounter and no mechanic that ensures a fairer fight
    3.) Notum wars, tarasque and battlestation all have terrible and very outdated design

    These are global problems that affect everyone, unlike AS pistols, mongo rage etc. which are problems in their own right but on a smaller (profession/breed/level specific) scale. Just like it is with pvm, people need motivation to pvp and there's no better motivation than being rewarded for your efforts. Anyone who disagrees with me for the sake of argument imagine if all XP and item rewards were removed from pvm encounters; how often would anyone do any pvm content in this game? For most it would be between "never" and "ok I'll try it once" and that's exactly how it is with pvp in AO. For those of us who prefer pvp to pvm this game doesn't offer anything; by strictly pvping you can't even self-sustain a single character (considering the price of heal stims and kits), let alone improve it in any way or build new ones. This is a huge fundamental game design flaw.
    Might be cool to destroy grid-terminals, shopdoors and bluebuffguy so they are out of commision for a while.

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