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Thread: Open letter

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    Battlestations is a side vs side objective based playfield. The game-defined goal, when you enter, is to take control of the space station. Complaining that a side caps all four points is like going to Camelot and complaining that a side killed Tara instead of leaving it alive so the battle could continue.

    The harsh reality is that if one side can cap all 4 points for any significant amount of time that means that something is seriously wrong. Either people aren't defending points or there is a major power imbalance in that round.
    Battlestation is not a 100% zone where you run around capping points. It is a designated pvp-zone that later on has gotten xp-rewards in addition to vp. Some facts: Before LE players and FC wanted to spread out pvp (from blobwars and CCwars) and then they released the LE-expansion with it's orbital strikes and Battlestation(s). The capping-system helps spread pvp.

    Many only logs in to AO to check for pvp and stand in line for hours for BS to start. As with flagging ost's and AOE-nukers it (4-capping) is generally looked upon by the comunity as reckless and troublesome behaviour. It wasn't that bad before since it was more active back then, but remember that AO is a social game. Players have their norms. It is usually non-pvp'ers that 4 caps and it ruins the enjoy for pvp'ers as a matter of fact.

    PS
    I do complain that Tara get killed without pvp
    Last edited by Cyberleet; Oct 25th, 2014 at 07:28:12.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    Battlestation is not a 100% zone where you run around capping points. It is a designated pvp-zone that later on has gotten xp-rewards in addition to vp. Some facts: Before LE players and FC wanted to spread out pvp (from blobwars and CCwars) and then they released the LE-expansion with it's orbital strikes and Battlestation(s). The capping-system helps spread pvp.

    Many only logs in to AO to check for pvp and stand in line for hours for BS to start. As with flagging ost's and AOE-nukes it (4-capping) is generally looked upon by the comunity as reckless and troublesome behaviour. It wasn't that bad before since it was more active back then, but remember that AO is a social game. Players have their norms. It is usually non-pvp'ers that 4 caps and it ruins the enjoy for pvp'ers as a matter of fact.
    It isn't a 100% zone but the objective of the zone is to take control of the battlestation. How is it that one side is able to 4-cap? PvPers of both sides should be trying to defend or capture a point. If they are not doing that.. that's not a pvm or pvp thing but a failure of people to work towards the provided goal. If you want to just pvp til your heart's content with NO objective then why not just do that in Borealis or better yet in the notum miner area?

    Your example of flagging an OST is harrassment btw.. 4-capping is a game mechanic and working as intended and able to be done because one side heavily overpowers the other. What other explanation do you have for how 4-capping is even possible except the fight is so imbalanced that one side simply cannot compete?
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  3. #23
    Lol nitpicking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    It isn't a 100% zone but the objective of the zone is to take control of the battlestation. How is it that one side is able to 4-cap? PvPers of both sides should be trying to defend or capture a point. If they are not doing that.. that's not a pvm or pvp thing but a failure of people to work towards the provided goal.
    The goal is pvp. Not have the round ruined by 4-cap. You don't get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    Your example of flagging an OST is harrassment btw..
    Since the goal of OST and Kite is pvm right?

    On paper I can of course say 'we're in a war' etc, 'thats the objective of the game', but...


    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    If you want to just pvp til your heart's content with NO objective then why not just do that in Borealis or better yet in the notum miner area?
    Asked and answered.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    You NEED pvm players for BS.
    Duh... and pvm/the game needs pvp-players or else it goes downhill.

    I am actually against this 'pvm vs pvp-view' on matters. Pvp and pvm-content obviosuly have to interchange. More pvm for 170-200 for example. XP-missions for 160-200, 201-215, 215-220 (similar to bs-range) etc. I don't think it will be hard to find a team of competent toons cause you get that innflux of pvp-twinks. Not that they are that good in pvm, but..I think it also will be more fun for all, as long as it is more rewarding to team within your own power-range, and that leveling also offers phatz.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Spec editions, ofab, and triple dailies are probably the only reason BS runs 75% of the time...those pvm players. You remove that and you are killing yourself.
    uhm...I think you misunderstand. I suggested for pvm-phatz (except boc/ai-bots) to be in vp-shop and for ofab-gear (except special-editions) to drop from pvm. Also removing yesdrop vp-packages from itemshop to vp-shop would be a good idea.

  5. #25
    Normally Psikie and I seem to disagree more often than not these days, but I have to admit to getting a chuckle out of this: you quote the bit where they talk about 4-capping without apparently reading the part immediately beforehand, which clarifies "when I see people spawn-camping or farming greens", and claim it's harassment. Personally I would say completing the objective/ending the game as a way to prevent you from spawn-camping players who are comparatively gimp is preventing harassment, not causing it.

    And by the way, the objective is to win the round. Fights and combat are just part of the means by which that is accomplished. There is more to PvP than simply tab-Q-pewpew.
    :E

  6. #26
    The reason why so called pvpers whine about 4 caping is very simple. Majority of them can only use zerg strategy, they always team toogether, buff each other with every possible buff then stay at core and gank any oponents.

    Even if they move to A, B, or C they do it in the same zerg...
    Fighting 4 vs 1 or even 6 vs 1 is not a reason to be called pvper but rather coward.

    Group farming green pvm'ers is just lame and if I see such behaviour I ll do anything to stop it (by 4 caping or leaving BS).
    Awikun 220/70/30 Ranged adv - my Main that I hardly ever log
    Awisha 220/70/30 Shade - Can solo 95% of all bosses
    Cratawi 200/70/30 Crat - S7/DR Solo farmer
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    Awidoc 200/70/30 Doc - 200 fun pvp twink
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    The goal is pvp. Not have the round ruined by 4-cap. You don't get it?
    If the goal of BS was just to PvP, the way to win a round wouldn't require a PvE objective to be complete.

    I do myself find it annoying when I'm having a really great BS round to have it over and done with quickly by quad capping, but I also find it extremely annoying when I'm the only person who makes an effort on my side so I just get chain farmed endlessly till someone quad caps.

    BS has never been about the PvP, it's about winning the objective of the match, which is, getting 500 points before your opponent.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
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  8. #28
    4-capping is considered antisocial behaviour. Both sides. Thats a fact that will remain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahndracorvid View Post
    And by the way, the objective is to win the round.
    The cap-points are actually there to spread the pvp out instead of having zerg-fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    BS has never been about the PvP,
    ok, bs is not about pvp. You rly got me there.

    Last edited by Cyberleet; Oct 25th, 2014 at 17:34:40.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahndracorvid View Post
    Personally I would say completing the objective/ending the game as a way to prevent you from spawn-camping players who are comparatively gimp is preventing harassment, not causing it.
    What do you personally think of mobs who attack players way below their own level?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    4-capping is considered antisocial behaviour. Both sides. Thats a fact that will remain.
    I wait with baited breath for the production of a proper research paper done on the matter.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  11. #31
    I'm going to try this again And Cyberleet I'm directing these questions specifically towards you as I am curious to know how you treat these situations. I'd appreciate if you could answer these directly as I noticed you have a tendency to only respond to the least relevant comments in my post and completely ignore the most important.

    Four Capping Scenario 1-- Opposite side is 4-capping

    In this scenario, one or more people from the opposite side have made it their sole mission to go around capping all 4 points. While you are only 1 person, where are you when every point is being captured? Why aren't you recapturing at least 1 point for your own side?

    Four Capping Scenario 2-- Your side is 4-capping

    In this scenario, one or more people from your own side have made it their sole mission to go around capping all 4 points. Since you state that doing this is some form of harrassment to the players that are there legitimately trying to engage in PvP, I have to again ask.. where is this PvP taking place? Are you saying that the guy you are fighting (obviously there are more people on BS than you and him.. but I'm only asking about your behavior in these scenarios) is making no attempt to recap at least one of the spots OR are you so busy killing that guy repeatedly that he can't make it to a cap point? Is he so busy killing you that he can't be bothered to go cap a point and end the 4-cap? Is there some fourth option I'm missing?

    I'm not asking these questions to be argumentative but I simply do not understand how a healthy PvP situation AND 4-capping can exist in the same battlestations round. Since they can't exist, I don't see how 4-capping is the problem. To me it is a symptom of another issue. I have participated in a lot of battlestations and I have never seen 4-capping take place for longer than a few seconds when there was fun/challenging/healthy PvP taking place on the space station. Admittedly, I haven't been participating in battlestations in some years now, but the objective of the playfield hasn't changed since they were released.

    The reality is that even though my stronger PvP days ended with LE, I had no choice but to run battlestations regularly because Ofab armor was NoDrop. When I went to BS, I did my best to work with my side and engage in a meaningful PvP encounter while accomplishing the goal of the playfield. I had many fun times in battlestations and many times where I just wished it would end. The difference between the two had nothing to do with me as a player but the level of challenge involved in the round.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Oct 25th, 2014 at 19:00:51.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    What do you personally think of mobs who attack players way below their own level?
    I personally think they're mobs. What has PvM got to do with Battlestations?

    Mind you, if I'd bothered catching up on all the forum drivel I miss during the week and read some of your other posts I wouldn't have replied in the first place.
    :E

  13. #33
    But whats the point? Trying to make me think 4-capping shouldn't be petitionable? 4-capping is discouraged by players.

    PS: Same to you Ahndracorvid. Don't answer if you don't want. It was a rhetorical question anyway.
    Last edited by Cyberleet; Oct 25th, 2014 at 19:11:35.

  14. #34
    You can't possibly say 4 capping is griefing. Nah man, that's a symptom of a bigger problem.

    Back in the day there were many ultra heroic matches won by 4 capping while being behind, I'm talking 495-500 matches which were previously hard fought 495-200 matches. This is the ACTUAL intent of the system, to say it magically changed just isn't true.
    Don't be lonely anymore.

    Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkstaah View Post
    You can't possibly say 4 capping is griefing. Nah man, that's a symptom of a bigger problem.

    Back in the day there were many ultra heroic matches won by 4 capping while being behind, I'm talking 495-500 matches which were previously hard fought 495-200 matches. This is the ACTUAL intent of the system, to say it magically changed just isn't true.
    this.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    4-capping is considered antisocial behaviour. Both sides. Thats a fact that will remain.
    I get it, everyone is supposed to stay on BS for hours until they have to log off and all take deserter flags when you are ready to leave. Otherwise it would be anti-social to win the round by capping like the way it is designed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    What do you personally think of mobs who attack players way below their own level?
    Huh?
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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  17. #37
    I read this forum for a long time, and I only see same ppl with same posts over and over again. Worst of all I blame myself that I read them, becouse it just draws me away from AO.

    Anyhow I hope so this new changes will get ppl back 2 AO, it got me back.

  18. #38
    Cyberleet i think you are one of many in this game with hundreds of billions of creds and ill tell you why i think so.
    In the past when this game had many more players nobody cared about fixer meep or tower griefing and 4-capping in BS rarelly happend because there were enough player to roll BS for a long time and noboby cared about MB too for the same reason that there were enough people to team and do your stuff.
    Now with low players in the game , some people ( PVP only ) are trying to modify this game to suit they needs forgeting about the other faction in this game the PVM one.
    I guess is so easy for you to get from lvl 1 to 220 and get ready for pvp in just one day.The others have to work hard to get their VP for ofab armor or other items.
    As other said the role of BS is to win the round and get your reward.And with that reward you buy new armor so you can have better chances in BS next time.
    BS is for pvp and for pvm too, otherwise you wouldnt have the reward.If pvp is all that matter for you all the pvp-iers, then you all should go to miner area and pvp for as long as you want.Now if BS doesnt run so often as before why someone should sign only to fight those uber-twink when all he or she want are those damn vp for better items?
    The only problem in this game is not MB, tower griefing, fixer meep, 4-capping in BS.Those are just side effects of the only real problem in this game.Low population.
    If there would be more players in this game you would have more pvp in BS and the rest that reward they are after, less capping in BS, less people would use MB and fixer meep would stop to be a problem because there would be enough players to fight.
    Why are some of you trying to alter this game just to suits their need. Dont you see by doing that more will leave this game? Why cant you just enjoy while it last?
    Last edited by SistemError; Oct 29th, 2014 at 13:16:46.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SistemError View Post
    Now with low players in the game , some people ( PVP only ) are trying to modify this game to suit they needs forgeting about the other faction in this game the PVM one.
    There is no pvm-faction to me.

    I also think some veterans wants it to be a playergaps between them and new players, which I am against.

    Quote Originally Posted by SistemError View Post
    I guess is so easy for you to get from lvl 1 to 220 and get ready for pvp in just one day.
    I leveled my 220's a long time ago and now I just log in to pvp on mainly two charracters.


    Quote Originally Posted by SistemError View Post
    The others have to work hard to get their VP for ofab armor or other items.
    Which is wrong cause ofab armor was supposed to be armor to decrease playergaps. IE, new player armor. The VP (or credz) for the yesdrop ofab-parts shouldn't be that hard to get. Just join BS. Types on the other hand is a bit more work.


    Quote Originally Posted by SistemError View Post
    As other said the role of BS is to win the round and get your reward.
    It's a pvp-zone for pvp.

    The cap-points are there to spread the pvp out. There is LE-missions for VP if u strictly pvm.


    Quote Originally Posted by SistemError View Post
    BS is for pvp and for pvm too,
    There is no pvm on bs.

    Quote Originally Posted by SistemError View Post
    If pvp is all that matter for you all the pvp-iers, then you all should go to miner area and pvp for as long as you want.
    If pvm is all that matter for you all the pvm-iers, then you all should go to a backyard and pvm for as long as you want... Don't you see that the miner-area is a fail? It doesn't work. We got battlestation and streetfighting as means for pvp. Basicly thats it.
    Last edited by Cyberleet; Oct 29th, 2014 at 17:00:43.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    There is no pvm-faction to me.
    So how did you get from lvl 1-220?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    It's a pvp-zone for pvp.
    It is a zone that allows pvp- it is not strictly a pvp zone. I think you are looking for the arenas, they can be found in Tir and Omni Entertainment fyi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    The cap-points are there to spread the pvp out. There is LE-missions for VP if u strictly pvm.
    The cap points give an objective, which is to capture the station for your side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    There is no pvm on bs.
    Wrong, there is no pvm in arenas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberleet View Post
    If pvm is all that matter for you all the pvm-iers, then you all should go to a backyard and pvm for as long as you want... Don't you see that the miner-area is a fail? It doesn't work. We got battlestation and streetfighting as means for pvp. Basicly thats it.
    By your logic you should be standing in an arena with the other pvp players. How is that working for you?
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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