Open letter

[tigerengi]

Stuff

And with this post you just confirmed the statement SistemError made:

Now with low players in the game , some people ( PVP only ) are trying to modify this game to suit they needs forgeting about the other faction in this game the PVM one.

[Cyberleet]

'Mirror mirror on the wall' imo.

Now if BS doesnt run so often as before why someone should sign only to fight those uber-twink when all he or she want are those damn vp for better items?

I understand how it is to fight vs pvp-twinks. I get that feeling when I run into an eng on my agent. You have to understand where we come from tho. BS is basicly the active pvp-content left in AO. Thats why players discourage 4-cap. Most of us have little intrest in fighting greenies. We want to fight pvp-twinks and just want BS to run. Once bs start it can be quite frustrating to have it end fast due to 4-cap. So players react to 4-cap for a reason.

So how did you get from lvl 1-220?

Pvm. Omni and clan = factions.

I think you are looking for the arenas, they can be found in Tir and Omni Entertainment fyi.

No, I am not looking for arenas. Thx.

The cap points give an objective, which is to capture the station for your side.

Which can be done without 4-cap. 4-capping only ends the round fast.

By your logic you should be standing in an arena with the other pvp players.

Why?

How is that working for you?

Didn't try.

Arenas are like notum miner area, will to fight and 4-holes. Nothing going on.

[Psikie]

Most of us have little intrest in fighting greenies.

We want to fight pvp-twinks and just want BS to run.

Arenas are like notum miner area, will to fight and 4-holes. Nothing going on.

Either you are lying to the readers or lying to yourself. IF all the pvp players wanted to do was fight other pvp players you would all meet at the arenas where there is no chance of pvm players coming there. Period point blank. To say anything else is just a flat out lie or ignorance. You know pvm greenies are on BS to get vp's and if you didn't want to see them you wouldn't go.

Arenas, notum miner area, will to fight and 4-holes are empty because you so called pvp players don't go to those dedicated pvp areas.

I mean seriously how hard is it to broadcast in OOC, "5 pvp players lvl 220 waiting at Tir arena for any and all challengers for real pvp."? What a crock of bull$pit. I guess that's too hard to do. Or for heavens sake challenge some other twink face to face to a /duel. Again too much effort?

It's so much easier to kill triple xp, vp farming greenies on BS and then complain about it all day on forums right?

[Cyberleet]

IF all the pvp players wanted to do was fight other pvp players you would all meet at the arenas where there is no chance of pvm players coming there. Period point blank.

No

Pvp'players goes to BS or bor pretty much.

You know pvm greenies are on BS to get vp's and if you didn't want to see them you wouldn't go.

Wrong, would still go.

Arenas, notum miner area, will to fight and 4-holes are empty because you so called pvp players don't go to those dedicated pvp areas.

It's because FC failed. Simple as that.

Battlestations is a dedicated pvp-area where we so called pvp players que for.

I mean seriously how hard is it to broadcast in OOC, "5 pvp players lvl 220 waiting at Tir arena for any and all challengers for real pvp."? What a crock of bull$pit. I guess that's too hard to do. Or for heavens sake challenge some other twink face to face to a /duel. Again too much effort?

R u mad?

• It doesn't work like u think it does.
• Arenas are empty and will stay that way.
• Not everyone likes duels, but real pvp instead.

It's so much easier to kill triple xp, vp farming greenies on BS and then complain about it all day on forums right?

You except us to not fight the opposing side on the BS? Srsly? Imo, thats disrespecting the fighters. I honesty think you are mirroring yourself in others when you accuse others for farming. Pvp-orientated are obviosuly intrested in pvp. When people log in and there is no action going on in bor and BS is not running, or when it runs get ruined by 4-cap, what you think gonna happen? People quit.

[Psikie]

No dude I've just called you out on your BS. You can lie to yourself all you want. But if you were interested in pvp vs other pvp players only, BS is not where you would go. You or someone else would try to organize pvp fighting in an arena, not just que up for random BS hunting/farming.

Funcom already has plenty of dedicated pvp areas that don't have any pvm content. If you were serious about the subject that is where you and any other "pvp" players would be. Not QQ about pvm players on BS.

You know what...I think that's a great idea, im going to do that for you tonight since it is too hard for you to do yourself and broadcast in clan and Omni OOC and just see exactly how many "pvp" players actually show up to the arenas. Ill start in Tir and then go to Omni ent. Around 7pm central US time.

I will not be surprised if none of the forum pvp crowd shows up.

[Pafpuf]

You can give out ql300 AI Bots or ACDC's, and as soon as everyone has all 8-12 character slots filled with that loot or the price drops to 10k per item because market is flooded you have empty BS again. Is that too hard to grasp, throwing xp or loot at the problem is not a solution.

That's why I suggested a VP wipe in case VP vendors got updated with actual good rewards and a price that would ensure those items aren't fast to farm. Removing VP rewards from the nonsense exp bs dailies would mean a player gets up to 1k vp per round if they win, meaning a supple bot (for example) with a price of 200k VP would take at least 200 battlestation rounds to acquire. Say BS rounds last 10-15 minutes on average, that's AT LEAST 33-50 hours of active gameplay for a single item. 33-50 hours equals 66-100 lame city raids in which a player spends most of their time afk (pet profs can literally afk up until the general spawns) and in those 66-100 raids you're definitely gonna get more than just one useful item. Most players who prefer pvp would rather spend 33-50 hours doing something they like for a tangible reward than keep their account(s) frozen because killing the same unintelligent mob for the thousandth time is (shocking revelation inc) not fun at all. Even if they didn't need items for themselves they could keep their account open by trading items (that they acquired doing something actually fun) for GRACE. Bigger active playerbase just like that. More ingame activity. More revenue for funcom and hopefully the AO team. The in-game market wouldn't suffer, pvmers wouldn't suffer and the only way someone would be against this suggestion was if they're unbelievably stupid because it's a pure win-win suggestion for both the playerbase and funcom.

[Cyberleet]

No dude I've just called you out on your BS. You can lie to yourself all you want. But if you were interested in pvp vs other pvp players only, BS is not where you would go.

As a matter of fact it is.

Why you wanna discuss me, my and others intentions/motivations instead of the topic?

You or someone else would try to organize pvp fighting in an arena, not just que up for random BS hunting/farming.

You are the one talking about farming. I talk about pvp. Even with rewards pvp would still be the main motivation for a pvp-orientated player. Duh. If you are pvmorientated, you just go kill some random stuff or is credits, loot and xp a nice part of it?

Funcom already has plenty of dedicated pvp areas that don't have any pvm content.

Like the battlestation. Like borealis.

Those pvp-encounters you mention don't work as intended.

If you were serious about the subject that is where you and any other "pvp" players would be.

Thats an absurd assumption.

It is like dismissing pvm-orientated players for doing tararaids. You can get taraphatz via collector or credfarming, but I am against this pvp vs pvm-thinking. It is a constructed axis pretty much. Once you pvp you are a pvp-player. Once you attack the opposing side and aid your own you are adhering to the AO-storyline (and social etiquette) and are a roleplayer. Then there is of course the advanced pvp-players and roleplayers.

Not QQ about pvm players on BS.

1. I said I think 4-cap should be petionable and still stand for it.
2. Pvm-players are more than welcome on bs, tara bor etc.
3. I still prefer to fight pvp-twinks around my own level.

You know what...I think that's a great idea, im going to do that for you tonight since it is too hard for you to do yourself and broadcast in clan and Omni OOC and just see exactly how many "pvp" players actually show up to the arenas. Ill start in Tir and then go to Omni ent. Around 7pm central US time.

I will not be surprised if none of the forum pvp crowd shows up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb16NHYDbbs

Not sure what u are trying to prove here tho. I for one only log in for pvp. Got little to no intrest in pvm.

[Cyberleet]

Tournament had prices btw.

[Psikie]

Like the battlestation. Like borealis.

Those pvp-encounters you mention don't work as intended.
[*]I said I think 4-cap should be petionable and still stand for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb16NHYDbbs

Other than posting a 2 year old video... I don't know where to begin with you. Either we are playing entirely different games or one of us is delusional. Maybe it's me, but I would bet 90% of the readers will think it's you.

You said BS and Borealis are dedicated pvp areas? Borealis is a dedicated pvp area? Interesting I always thought it was a 75% area like.... I don't know maybe the shadowlands except gardens? Is all of shadowlands a dedicated pvp area also?

The pvp areas I mentioned work 100% fine, they just are not being used. Usage and working are 2 different things. Just like a knife will still work and cut food whether you use it or not.

Your thing about petitioning for a 4-cap...WOW.

[Raggy]

I can't wait for the day where he petitions the 4-cap and gets shut down by the GM

[edmaster3]

That's why I suggested a VP wipe in case VP vendors got updated with actual good rewards and a price that would ensure those items aren't fast to farm. Removing VP rewards from the nonsense exp bs dailies would mean a player gets up to 1k vp per round if they win, meaning a supple bot (for example) with a price of 200k VP would take at least 200 battlestation rounds to acquire. Say BS rounds last 10-15 minutes on average, that's AT LEAST 33-50 hours of active gameplay for a single item. 33-50 hours equals 66-100 lame city raids in which a player spends most of their time afk (pet profs can literally afk up until the general spawns) and in those 66-100 raids you're definitely gonna get more than just one useful item. Most players who prefer pvp would rather spend 33-50 hours doing something they like for a tangible reward than keep their account(s) frozen because killing the same unintelligent mob for the thousandth time is (shocking revelation inc) not fun at all. Even if they didn't need items for themselves they could keep their account open by trading items (that they acquired doing something actually fun) for GRACE. Bigger active playerbase just like that. More ingame activity. More revenue for funcom and hopefully the AO team. The in-game market wouldn't suffer, pvmers wouldn't suffer and the only way someone would be against this suggestion was if they're unbelievably stupid because it's a pure win-win suggestion for both the playerbase and funcom.

This whole conversation shows why some vets and pvp heads should stay the hell away from decision makers. This guy really want to take away all 200k vp i took 2 years to farm, just so he can pvp. Yes their is a lot of people that want to do 200 bs just to get an item they can buy with the 10 Billion creds they have saved up, or can farm themselves.

While you have a right to be selfish, all it sounds like is that you want to make bs 220 only, twink only with no PVMers. You are misguided to think that AO have a large pvp population, that people who loose 2 bs in a row will continue to BS just because you need items. Or that there are people who will not mind not getting vp just so they can get kills.
Every other MMO/GAME realize that everyone needs to enjoy pvp for it to run or for the game to be good. I guess you didnt notice that.

No amount of incentives is going to keep people who get farmed to come back to BS. If the loosers get any incentive then it will still be an afk area.
You pvpers are just bored, Try asking for other pvp arenas "Capture the Flag", "Chase the Leet", "Ascend the tower" etc. Instead of screwing up an already flawed system already.

[tigerengi]

I can't wait for the day where he petitions the 4-cap and gets shut down by the GM

Like (y)

[Cyberleet]

i r speshul

[Pafpuf]

This whole conversation shows why some vets and pvp heads should stay the hell away from decision makers. This guy really want to take away all 200k vp i took 2 years to farm, just so he can pvp.

Lol implying that you actually invested a second of your time to specifically enter the battlestation in order to farm VP. You did dailies and you got VP as a side-effect that you didn't even care for until I mentioned a wipe. If you had any use for the VP you would have used them, and not hoarded them for the sake of having a lot just to counter argument someone with nonsense and a big number. You have a very selfish and narrow-minded point of view.

Yes their is a lot of people that want to do 200 bs just to get an item they can buy with the 10 Billion creds they have saved up, or can farm themselves.

Implying that everyone has 10 billion creds saved up, again very narrow-minded.

While you have a right to be selfish, all it sounds like is that you want to make bs 220 only, twink only with no PVMers.

Excuse me for wanting to make a pvp area a home for pvpers, which is only common sense. Why should pvmers be dragged into pvp that they don't want in the first place? Why do you want them to go to a place they hate so much? For an effortless 3x cap xp mission? The 3x daily mission can be placed anywhere in the game world just like all other daily missions are. Or you think pvm and pvp should mix, in which case the entire game world should be under 25% suppression gas which is something I'm sure you wouldn't agree to. For someone who is so avid in your anti-pvp attitude you have no problem supporting a game mechanic that forces other anti-pvpers into pvp.
You obviously have no experience pvping in any game so I'm gonna let you in on a little secret: in every single mmo out there, one requirement for being on top of the pvp food chain is having top equipment. That's not me being selfish, it's just how competitive activity works. But in your eyes the world is black&white. You only see battlestations as endgame pvpers/twinks vs leveling medsuit chatacters who don't give a flying f*** about pvp just passing through for the free massive xp and nothing in between. Endgame gear is only a requirement for being on top, anyone can pvp in any kind of gear if they choose to. I, for example, started pvping with my first character when she was 215 and had only one piece of AI armor. Undergeared compared to endgame characters? Yes. Compared to everyone else? No. Farmed because of it? Definitely not.

You are misguided to think that AO have a large pvp population

Why do you think that is other than the lack of incentive to pvp? AO could have a decent pvp population if people were motivated to pvp. Just look at the numbers that show up for contested notum wars/tara, it's pvp and they're motivated by nothing other than bot points as a reward. My suggestion would motivate players to pvp by having the game reward them with a very simple and very basic concept of trading currency for an item (exactly how every other game works hello?) which is also more effective than bot points. Since you're an irrational hater I'm certain you also hate raid bots when they're used for pvp and my suggestion would help you with that.

that people who loose 2 bs in a row will continue to BS just because you need items.

Of course they will continue, because they want the items the activity rewards them for, not because I want them to lol. Imagine if everyone who wiped twice in a row in pande or apf stopped doing those playfields entirely, this game would literally be dead.

Or that there are people who will not mind not getting vp just so they can get kills.

I'm sorry can you translate that into English?

Every other MMO/GAME realize that everyone needs to enjoy pvp for it to run or for the game to be good. I guess you didnt notice that.

And you don't know what makes an activity enjoyable on a long term scale. That is rewards. No intelligent human on this planet willingly engages in repetitive activity if they're not somehow rewarded for it. It's very basic psychology.

No amount of incentives is going to keep people who get farmed to come back to BS.

Actually, it would. You see a player doesn't lose anything when dying in in this game (in battlestations you even get to keep all your buffs and there's no rez sickness) and unless someone takes dying in pvp personally with nonsense like "omg they kill me ergo they hate me now I hate them too QQ" nobody will have a problem with that. Besides nobody gets farmed forever, players tend to gradually improve their characters over time making them stronger. Maybe you don't do that and get rekt on a constant basis which is why you hate pvpers so much, idk.

If the loosers get any incentive then it will still be an afk area.

You mean just like it is now, only for pvmers? Double standards ftw! Anyway, it's a small problem extremely easy to deal with by making auto-afk a fixed game mechanic instead of an option.

You pvpers are just bored, Try asking for other pvp arenas "Capture the Flag", "Chase the Leet", "Ascend the tower" etc. Instead of screwing up an already flawed system already.

Oh yes please give us more pvp areas void of any reward, sure sounds like fun. There's not enough in this game already and I'm sure the AO dev person or team will gladly invest their time to create nothingness. Or hey since you're totally not a selfish hypocrite how about suggesting that all cap xp rewards get removed and all mobs lose their entire item loot tables so you and every other like-minded person can pvm just for fun! Use vendor bought gear with little to no stat bonuses, go back to killing a gazillion mobs to reach max level and enjoy some alone time in deserted pvm zones. Fun fun fun

[Traderjill]

I'm not quoting anyone because I'm lazy atm.

Regarding wiping VP in the event that new items come out. I think there are better solutions than a wipe. Kinda stealing the concept from WoW but..

1. Existing VP (referring to it as VP1) stays as is. All current items in the ofab vendors are still buyable for vP1.
2. Create new cool items/huds/utils/whatever that are buyable only with a new battlestations currency. For reference purposes let's just call it VP2.
3. Create a vendor that will exchange VP2 for VP1 so that people that came in after VP2 started can still buy the old stuff.
4. Eventually (yearly or whenever) move the VP2 items over to the VP1 shop and create new VP2 items. This gives people a fresh incentive to do battlestations (or whatever activity is rewarding them with VP.. would include LE missions and those John Smith dailies).

[Cyberleet]

I always thought it was best if pvp-missions (John Smith is not actually a pvp-mission in practice) and pvm-missions was mutually exclusive so it is a choice for players, and not just a additional grind. Imo, you should be able to get ofab via pvm and likewise; get more pvm-stuff from vp-shop. Alternatively make pvm-missions for ofab. Lets say the LE-missions or Dreadlochboss-mission got locked to a mission that could be repated 3 times for a reward. FC should also fix/rework/delete broken systems like Tarasque and pvp-missions that doesn't work. The battlestation-mission is pretty much the only pvp-mission that works well.

[edmaster3]

Lol implying that you actually invested a second of your time to specifically enter the battlestation in order to farm VP.
Implying that everyone has 10 billion creds saved up, again very narrow-minded.
Excuse me for wanting to make a pvp area a home for pvpers, which is only common sense. Why should pvmers be dragged into pvp that they don't want in the first place? Why do you want them to go to a place they hate so much? For an effortless 3x cap xp mission?
You obviously have no experience pvping in any game so I'm gonna let you in on a little secret: in every single mmo out there, one requirement for being on top of the pvp food chain is having top equipment. That's not me being selfish, it's just how competitive activity works. But in your eyes the world is black&white. You only see battlestations as endgame pvpers/twinks vs leveling medsuit chatacters who don't give a flying f*** about pvp just passing through for the free massive xp and nothing in between. Endgame gear is only a requirement for being on top, anyone can pvp in any kind of gear if they choose to. I, for example, started pvping with my first character when she was 215 and had only one piece of AI armor. Undergeared compared to endgame characters? Yes. Compared to everyone else? No. Farmed because of it? Definitely not.
Use vendor bought gear with little to no stat bonuses, go back to killing a gazillion mobs to reach max level and enjoy some alone time in deserted pvm zones. Fun fun fun

Sorry I dont have time to RUN on with foolishness. You have selective reading, you just Take words out of sentences and complain about it.
Been around for 8 years so yes I have vp stored up, that i save for alts. Yes I do have twinks and pvp just for fun.
But more importantly I want AO to grow and i want new people to actually have fun so they can stay.

So after you started AO you waited 215 levels and until you got a couple hundred million creds before you started pvping? No wonder why your views are so messed up. My views are that everyone should be able to pvp and enjoy it a little. Should those vets with millions of creds and top gear get a god like advantage no. Should they be able to be 30% better yes.

Pafpuf if you were in a BS with a med suit guy against 4 endgame pvp toons who stick together, would you stay inside and get farmed until the end?

With that said Traderjill has an interesting idea, one that was suggested for raids also. The only question is will the loosing side get vp rewards also?
Dont forget ao still sell vp.

[Ahndracorvid]

It annoys me that the PvP miner area is empty these days. The area solves 3 problems.

1. Cyberleet's issue with the potential to 4-cap. With no points to cap, the fighting can continue uninterrupted.
2. PvMers feeling "forced" to do it because they need something (eg. VP from Battlestations). No rewards essential to gearing up = no pressure. PvMers/newer players are free to get their feet wet when they feel good and ready to, not before.
3. Backyard huggers in Bor/city PvP. No backyards, no hugging, more fighting. Win-win.

Such a waste. If people actually used it more, maybe the idea could've been expanded due to popularity. Maybe we might even have gotten more maps/areas. Yeah I know we have arenas, but the miner area is more interesting to fight in IMO.

[Cyberleet]

One big issue that people always mention is the playergaps. There is a lot of suggestion out there that make stuff (power) more obtainable for new-player playthrough but veterans seems to dislike it. Imo, vet-shop should be the only materialistic advantage veterans have. Today it is lootrights-selling that seems to be the norm, or solofarms/pointfarms. Hope to see that change.

In short: Decrease the playergaps. Make a pvp-startup vendor f.x. More phatz from levling etc



I, for example, started pvping with my first character when she was 215 and had only one piece of AI armor. Undergeared compared to endgame characters? Yes. Compared to everyone else? No. Farmed because of it? Definitely not.


I remember starting picking on 220's at lvl 180ish in pre-le era =p


--------------------



Someone said multiboxing isn't an issue. It is. Stuff should be balanced with mb in mind.

What makes MB so potent is:

• Instant special-attacks.
• Instant nukes.
• Assist/follow.
• Passive team-uberbuffs that doesn't create more teamplay but instead buff MB/Dual-loggers.

Fix these things.

Blockers, aad-aura etc could work like guardian-perk instead. U initiate actively on a target.

Aimed shot could require 2seconds of aiming before Aimed shot is available. Aiming gives attack-message, doesn't break sneak and require standing still. If you move it reset and you have to re-aim to get aimed shot avaible again. Add animation to it and the game looks prettier too Same with nukes. Require the NT to cast something to prepare the target for the good nukes. It would give players time to react strategicly.

Also more mechanics similar to 'Target can not have concussive shot running' would help.

As it is now I think pvp evolves too much around special-attacks and generic AI-perks. It's becoming a fps-game.

No rewards essential to gearing up = no pressure.

Ofab from pvm and pvm-stuff in vp-shop = win/win.

3. Backyard huggers in Bor/city PvP. No backyards, no hugging, more fighting.

Wouldn't work. It would kill streetfighting-pvp wether one likes it or not.

Same when a side dominates core. The weaker side will run A B C instead of going core. It's how it is.

[edmaster3]

It annoys me that the PvP miner area is empty these days. The area solves 3 problems.

Such a waste. If people actually used it more, maybe the idea could've been expanded due to popularity. Maybe we might even have gotten more maps/areas. Yeah I know we have arenas, but the miner area is more interesting to fight in IMO.

The area is what they ask for but its not popular cause there is not a lot of pvpers to actually be there.
Would be good if it was a training ground for new people to kill each other yeah, but it only takes one Super twinked toon to enter farm everyone and kill it off.

Plus PVP is just not to popular in AO anyway.

@Cyberleet
You were finally making sense until The MBing part. Like i said a lot you cant screw up all PVM just to annoy MBers.