MP DPM capability and "best" setups

[Esssch]

Just about any setup is now viable for DPM. Pistol and MA will outperform the other setups, with FA pistol likely taking the lead, if only by a small margin. I think I'd have had enough IP to get shields on if I hadn't maxed nano programming or put IP into first aid since I never use it. Nano pool doesn't need to be raised at all, tbh. The problem you'll most likely run into trying to swap between pistols and shields is the multi ranged req on pistols. My multi ranged isn't maxed, but I can't imagine you'll be able to raise it much more without causing IP issues for shields. 1hb perks work now, and pistol specials hit fine compared to other weapon setups, they miss a lot compared to a profession like a soldier who sits on 1k+ more AR than we do at any given time.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

you might be able to get around the MR problem if you go with a lust offhand ? i.e. I have to assume you go with full CC for any type of weapon skill requiring setup, and then you might be able to manage a troa'ler + lust, with no implants with MR on them? a few items help like BBQ pillow and a juggler ring, plus, you could permanently have ambidextrous perked which wouldn't be the worst in the world... but not ideal either.

[Psikie]

Im still kinda torn here. For personal dmg no doubt pistols prob OD any other option.

But I would like to think T3 pet + dual 1hb would OD T2 pet + pistols over time. Pistol specials obviously have spike dmg in short term but over time vs bosses etc I don't know how it would play out.

[Esssch]

you might be able to get around the MR problem if you go with a lust offhand ? i.e. I have to assume you go with full CC for any type of weapon skill requiring setup, and then you might be able to manage a troa'ler + lust, with no implants with MR on them? a few items help like BBQ pillow and a juggler ring, plus, you could permanently have ambidextrous perked which wouldn't be the worst in the world... but not ideal either.

I meant the MR req of regular Lust. The problem with perking ambi and wearing CC is that you'll have a much tougher time casting even T2 Rihwen, where a lot of the damage comes from. It's something like 30k DPM difference between T1 and T2? You won't be making that up just by putting on Troa or Peh. I'd say it wouldn't be worth using full CC in either PvM or PvP. PvM you'd be better off going full CS like most of us and just doing a Peh/Bigburger combo or Lust/Burger if the Peh's reqs are too high. PvP I can't speak for, but I have a feeling it's the same, that extra damage from T2 will be better than anything short of adding AS to your setup.

Im still kinda torn here. For personal dmg no doubt pistols prob OD any other option.

But I would like to think T3 pet + dual 1hb would OD T2 pet + pistols over time. Pistol specials obviously have spike dmg in short term but over time vs bosses etc I don't know how it would play out.

I have my doubts about T3/1hb outperforming T2/pistol. Pets-wise it's 139k DPM vs 150k DPM, meaning pistols only have to match 1hb+12k DPM, which seems really really easy from specials alone, not even counting the perks that are easier to land. I'd be interested in seeing DPM numbers for T3/1hb, either dual asp or asp/abandonment. I'm not sure how the poison proc will play in. In the end, though, all we're really waiting on is someone to do the test, I've already posted T2/pistol results above (and Cratertina's MA setup beat me out on inf heck by ~27k DPM)

[Psikie]

I have my doubts about T3/1hb outperforming T2/pistol.

Sorry took me a while getting back onto test server. Here is the problem, yes 1hb+T3 will OD pistol+T2 BUT it takes about 6min of sustained combat. In other words if you are fighting big boss mobs solo or with single team is the only time it would come about. 1-2 min fights pistols win, but if u just go crazy on punching bag for 6m or more the 1hb+T3 can over come.

Creation+ Kyr hammer for swapping phulaks for T3, and I also did not perk soothing spirits, instead starfall. Blunt mastery, champ infantry.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Sorry took me a while getting back onto test server. Here is the problem, yes 1hb+T3 will OD pistol+T2 BUT it takes about 6min of sustained combat. In other words if you are fighting big boss mobs solo or with single team is the only time it would come about. 1-2 min fights pistols win, but if u just go crazy on punching bag for 6m or more the 1hb+T3 can over come.

Creation+ Kyr hammer for swapping phulaks for T3, and I also did not perk soothing spirits, instead starfall. Blunt mastery, champ infantry.

just out of curiosity...

how did you figure this?

If T3+1HB was going to OD pistols, it would do it after one perk cycle (<2m), unless something ridiculous is involved like chaining dimach to get the lead.

[Angler]

I plan to build a mp with two Abandonment of the Xan and it will be great!

[Cratertina]

Well, maybe pdkps.... Dat would be a clear winner in my book.

Also casting T3 takes forever... Net damage per playtime would always be lower.. In damage per time played, pistols hold massive adventage.

[Oliveerz]

I plan to build a mp with two Abandonment of the Xan and it will be great!

You should go with asp+ábandonment, that opens up more perks for you, more AR and more dmg

[Cratertina]

I would love to see dd numbers for this... Btw you can self T2 while wearing combined merc..

Worst thing about my MA setup is lack of AR... Getting more of that would be nice. In theory 1hb is better, but when i tried it... It was worse considerably.

One good thing about MA is full symb support.

[Psikie]

just out of curiosity...

how did you figure this?

If T3+1HB was going to OD pistols, it would do it after one perk cycle (<2m), unless something ridiculous is involved like chaining dimach to get the lead.

Quite simple...go to test server and start whacking high ac dummy. I am not a math person but my theory on why over time 1hb OD pistols is 2 fold. 1hb has more perks, 1hb also has higher BASE dmg over pistol from higher AR, and T3 pet all add up over time to overcome spike dmg from burst/FA. Over time. I didnt test versus low ac dummy but they might not be able to catch up without some crit luck id guess.

Now something I did NOT do was deck out the toons in alien armor, I used vanilla equipment identical setups except weapons just to get an even weapon vs weapon test. IE no CSS or CM.

The problem is no fights really ever go that long except maybe pande or tchu so its kinda irrelevant in normal play end game.

[Esssch]

How many times did you test? I've noticed that pistol DPM can fluctuate wildly based on...I don't know, I guess the way a creature moved one of it's limbs in South America at the time. That's about the most logical conclusion I can think of for why it fluctuates so wildly. I did a 3-min test on city punching bag and got ~210k DPM, while a lower-geared 1hb orgmate got 330k. I tried again and got 440k DPM. His was consistent at 330k, mine wasn't even in the ballpark of being consistent. Not only that, for the first attempt I had the MOTR damage buff up, for the 2nd I didn't.

[Cratertina]

Lol, damage does not fluctuate by 50%... Time your perks, launch them on attack part... Launch nukes on recharge of attacks and run specials the moment they are avaliable. Try to get 1400 burst, to cap it.

Pistols respond poorly to crit, while 1hb, should improve more.

But pretty sure no MP does 440k dpm. Not overtime.

Personally i run DD until I hit around 1M mark.

Good targets are punching bags in bs hub and inferno heckler... Though heckler dies quite fast...

You can also show off your damage at Tara...

Also pistols get a lotbetter with AI armor... Css or cc make specials fire fast as hell... fast specials are a great source of DD, since nanos and perks do not interupt them.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

that honestly sounds like you didn't send your pets to attack esssch

[Esssch]

I did the same thing during both attempts, and yes my pet was attacking during both attempts.

@Cratertina, how's 421k without FA or pen quest nuke, and only 1030 burst, so not capped? You guys act like I don't know how to play this game or something.

[Cratertina]

1. Ninomp ( 1.154.777 / 400.500 / 257 / 50 / 19% / 8.265 )

On city notum tower mob I guess hats off to you!

But real DD test is actual content... MY MA easily beats my shade on damage bag... but on real live ql300 ai general.... shade wins hands down... same for SL mobs, same for any content worth killing. No idea what caused the inconsistancy... for me damage was always super consistient....

Also, what is that green buff on your pet? I'm missing that.

[Esssch]

Touch of Poison. I had a similar issue with inf heck. My first attempt after 18.7 was lower than my pre-18.7 attempts, but after that it shot up. It could just be AR issues or something, I don't know. My DPM in actual content (APF/12m/pande/city raids) is pretty consistent, it's the Schrodinger's Cat of DPM, when I'm testing it's low.

[Cratertina]

Buffed touch of poison.. Did 410k dpm, still missing dd. Seems like my very original noncookie cutter setup is underperforming... And pistols are better.

That being said, good DD MP, timing nukes in any setup with T2 pet, can exceed 300k dpm in general content...

We can then call MP a medium damage dealer.

[Psikie]

Id say pistol fluctuates more versus lower ac targets. SO I strictly used high AC dummy on test to try and eliminate that. Eventually higher base dmg 1hb overcomes spike dmg from pistol specials, like Novocaine just takes time.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

can exceed 300k dpm in general content...(is) a medium damage dealer.

I really, really don't get this.

300k is a "medium" damage dealer?

seriously?

I can name off the top of my head two times when I got 300k + damage in a actual "content" situation. First was when I took my MA to OTAF base and wtf ganked mobs for token guns a few years ago, I ran a dumper, and over 50ish minutes of play, I averaged 302k DPM. the other time was when I was on my engineer at S35, and I ran around aggroing every mob I could find while the rest of the raid tank/DPS'd in the middle of the three thingies. In that raid I was #1 DD by over 80k and had 325k on my engi.

I really don't think that doing 300k DPM makes you a "medium" damage dealer. I honestly think that 300k DPM in any raid will put you in the "whoa, nice DD" area, and unless someone is REALLY working their ass off with a pretty top notch setup, they aren't going to be getting anywhere near that.

Sure, there are stories of shades who do 425k DPM, and the NT with candycane doing nearly 500k... and, yea, they aren't myths, but they aren't applicable to in terms of what you should compare yourself against, unless you've got a 1. a deathwish, 2. are trying to get carpal tunnel 3. are trying to get arthritis in your fingers by the age of 40 and 4. are only concerned with your DPM up till the moment at which you find yourself at reclaim and then laugh it off, saying: I don't need that loot anyway- I'm done this toon. At which point, the guys in the raid are sitting there wondering how to tell you you're an ******* because you volunteered to help them complete some content as DPS, and now your stupidity has resulted in putting them in a crappy position where they have to defeat the other half of the raid AND the boss without a DDer.

Honestly. 300k DPM in a raid is NOT medium damage, that's top end. And if you can hit 300k DPM in a raid/any content that is progressing at a normal rate without significantly increasing the risk of a wipe to your team... then that's a very reasonable damage rate.

And, I challenge anyone who thinks otherwise to play with people who actually need content on the toon they are playing with to invalidate that claim.

@ pixie pistols probably fluctuate a lot more because of two compounding mechanics which can totally vary your damage in a fight: deflect and evades. burst AR is very low on MP's and therefore real damage done by burst will vary significantly vs mobs with reasonably high level, as well, deflect could potentially significantly lower burst damage. The more bullets you're potentially hitting with, and the less AR you have in key specials skills with significantly boost variability in landing those bullets. Add proc chance to regulars+flings, and you'll get pretty variable results. Vs low AC's and it's just another source of variation.