MP DPM capability and "best" setups

[Dancingrage]

And as such, here's the problem we've really had that never got solved over the last....well, since AO was started, really.

What, and I'm not being sarcastic, facetious, etc, constitutes an 'average' MP? What sort of gear, at what TLs? Sure I can see making a TL3 MP that's going to do really well in all sorts of situations, but the problem in that situation is that I'm aware of what a 'top-end' MP should be equipped with.

I'm pretty sure the community has never really agreed on a 'this is what an average MP of xyz level should be looking like'. If we had numbers to back up subjective impressions, we could make cases on where the MP weak points are during the 'development' of any given MP and point the developers to these points to get them addressed.

[Esssch]

how much can you swap on though?

I think I only need to swap research attunement device, but I can't actually log on to double check. With the 100 extra nanoskills from the proposed change to Ancient Knowledge I shouldn't need to swap, I think. We'll see how well the scaling past 2500 skills is supposed to work.

I can currently self 3002 TS with 2892 MC or 2902 TS with 2992 MC (phulak swap). I know there is a little more room to twink out of few more points. With swaps I can actually NSD myself and continue casting NSD... My everyday normal setup gives me 2719 MC and 2728 TS and I am missing bastion shoulder for 10 more points. I wear six pieces of scouts ai armor. I don't think 2500 nanoskills is unreasonable for MP's.

What weapons are you using? I'd have way more nanoskills if I were creations or bow, but pistols need those perk points that other weapon setups are able to put into nanoskill buffing.

And as such, here's the problem we've really had that never got solved over the last....well, since AO was started, really.

What, and I'm not being sarcastic, facetious, etc, constitutes an 'average' MP? What sort of gear, at what TLs? Sure I can see making a TL3 MP that's going to do really well in all sorts of situations, but the problem in that situation is that I'm aware of what a 'top-end' MP should be equipped with.

I'm pretty sure the community has never really agreed on a 'this is what an average MP of xyz level should be looking like'. If we had numbers to back up subjective impressions, we could make cases on where the MP weak points are during the 'development' of any given MP and point the developers to these points to get them addressed.

After like 4 years without any real content updates, full endgame equipped should be the average for TL7s.

[Dancingrage]

After like 4 years without any real content updates, full endgame equipped should be the average for TL7s.

That's fine for the MP's whove been here and active for 4 years or more, but part of the loss AO has been experiencing in population has been due partially to the grind, partially due to a sense of elitism on part of folks who have all that endgear, and partly the perceived gap between what they have and can get ahold of in a reasonable (read: 40hrs and a bit of a life on RK4) timeframe versus what full on endgame toons have at the time. So a sense of what 'average' would be wouldn't be a bad idea to start sorting out what we could expect in terms of performance versus other, more finely tuned, toons.

This is probably something that'd take a bit of debate and discussion, so that won't be a good idea here for a discussion on DPM.

[JustinSane4]

I'd suggest DB 1 and DB 2 armor and full betas as a reasonable base line, at least for purposes of what should be necessary to cast our nanos. My personal opinion is that more than almost any other profession, MPs should be able to easily cast their nanos. If we get a bunch of nano-skill buffing on one hand and increased nanoskill reqs by 240 on the other, that largely negates that aspect of our profession.

[Psikie]

I'd suggest DB 1 and DB 2 armor and full betas as a reasonable base line, at least for purposes of what should be necessary to cast our nanos.

I agree to full betas, but would substitute ql250 Penultimate Ofab for avg (types for ql300 are hit or miss on gms). It's easy for most of us to think about all the end game stuff we can do because we have been here for years.

[lainbr]

...and full betas...

Am I the only one who goes from Persistings to Alphas? :v

Considering personal noobness, I would consider OFAB and Persistings as baseline, since I had Tier 3 and Persistings when I hit 220 :/

[Psikie]

I could agree to that also persistings and ofab 250.

[Dancingrage]

so we can agree that the general ql of symbiants should be 250 for a baseline 'average' MP. I would hope most would read the guide and avoid hitting 220 in Tier 2/3 armor, but I'm curious as to how easy it is to get Ofab versus something like the sided evasion armor like Apoc/Omni-tek steel ribbed/Mystic Force Tight/etc. QL sucks but it's got evades, would be my line of thinking on that.

[Esssch]

This is something I'd be quite curious about as well. There isn't much data available from endgame-setup MPs. The best I can find is Esssch's 240,333 DPM against an inf heck with a pistol setup. http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=150427 is his base set-up last I knew, but I'm not sure what gear he used for the test. I got 226,020 DPM on an inf heck with a fairly under-geared 2hb setup (mix of alphas and betas, mostly DB armor, Jathos helm, Powerful Mind/IS pads, mix of alphas and betas, no ACDC, elctrophoridae gloves) using the Aggressive Staff of Julian Redfire. And I also tested a full def (though still undergeared) SoZ setup and got 167,160 DPM on an inf heck.

In raids, I usually fall slightly ahead of soldiers and behind non-afk engies, crats and shades.

This is slightly late, but I have now managed 308k DPM in 12m. Damage dump at about 7:54 in this video.

Here's also 268k DPM on inf heck. T2 Rihwen and pistol mastery helped quite a bit. This is also without the damage buff from cold nuke, cause I don't have it! And we have Kennahz being a real class act on Dnet.

[Tilkh]

This is slightly late, but I have now managed 308k DPM in 12m. Damage dump at about 7:54 in this video.

Here's also 268k DPM on inf heck. T2 Rihwen and pistol mastery helped quite a bit. This is also without the damage buff from cold nuke, cause I don't have it! And we have Kennahz being a real class act on Dnet.

Hey guys,

Just returned from a 1 year AFK and wanting to play my MP again, are pistols the way forward? What is relevant etc?

Cheers

T

[Cratertina]

I invested heavilly in to MA setup.

Around 300k damage against targets I can hit, survive that is. Gauntlet for example I was top DD in mixed team. Damage range is from 220k to 300k, heavily dependant on target and team support. Crit buffing etc.
However wearing CM armor, that is inherently bad for nanoskills and hp and such.

I tried shield, poor dpm, rouatnd 160.

Tried cretion 1hb, poor damage, round 190k, poor considering pet did 125k.

Mps in general now should be good damage. With any real xan weapon you can expect 200k+ But in most situations better than most other professions.

My DD crat, with nuke nerf, and while debuffing, does similar DD, as resonably geared MA MP.

So in real raid conditions MPs are good at DD Now.

Id say pistol setup should be best, with good pistol support and perks. Best for all situationa. Maybe lusts of xan are better choice for using interesting armor, and not worry over OE.

[Esssch]

287k DPM on S13 general without RC or OS, but with soldier dmg aura and MOP. 384k DPM with self buffs and soldier damage aura on mantis queen.

And ya, Peh'wer would get me more personal damage, but I think I might need CSS to keep them non-oe, and the T2 Rihwen from CS is a better damage increase. I could squeeze out a little more DD if I went and did Scheol quest for that nuke, maybe a couple thousand DPM. Then again, Scheol quest, gross. If I wanted to solo tough stuff like Razor/Xark or LoTV or swamp hags, I'd go dual shields, but I can solo just about anything else shy of raid bosses.

The only person I've seen OD me so far has been Caloss2's shade, who's pretty geared. Though to be fair, I'm also geared and I only really do den mantis daily for a friend and Storm raid nights, so it's not like I've got a wide range of tests done.

[Cratertina]

That is great damage. Maybe MP is now a top dd prof and we dont even know it yet.

i see very good shades in actual raids do 270-300k, if MP can do way more, that would be intresting.

Anyone wanna join OT-RP TNH raids, for some damage dumps? Conntact Drgeez or Nastyshade, or any member and join in.

I wanna see proper MP in action, suspecting it is rathet good now.

Let me post some damage dumps...


Inferno heck
You ( 221.409 / 295.200 / 67 / 14 / 20% / 5.091 )
Me/Pet
You ( 116.361 / 155.100 / 29 / 9 / 31% / 5.091 )
Phaty aka T2 pet ( 105.048 / 140.040 / 38 / 5 / 13% / 4.854 )

Seems good no? Only honorable thing to do now is log Shade and kill dat same heck.

Big bad shade with MoP running ( 234.230 / 390.360 / 31 / 8 / 25% / 11.309 )

HMMM... I guess 100k more from shade. Also shade didnt get less than 10% damage ... at any point. in full offensive setup with way better survivability :P

But that being said in inferno Shade is top dawg. If MP had 20 more perks it to would have 400k damage.

What about Crat? No expense spared crat.

You ( 232.974 / 332.820 / 99 / 14 / 14% / 4.671 )

Back to real world MP seems to be able to under ideal conditions pull off 240-300k damage per minute.

MP def is up there.

While shade holds superior survivability component, that is kinda required when you push damage and are in team without good enf...


MP is now really nice, when you build for damage, you have it.. When you build for survivability... you have it. At expense of 50k dpm for each shield.

Pistols obviously work, so do melee setups, even strange ones such as mine. MP can always do damage no matter what because pet does 145-155k damage on hard targets.

Add any kind of resonalbe dpm + good nuking capability and you have a DD machine, that wont disapoint... atleast not like before when pet did 70k dpm.

[Esssch]

I'd like to see someone take my setup to the next level, frost nuke+energy nuke combo, replace one of the lusts with an FA pistol like bigburger. Maybe do some swaps for T3 rihwen, but i'm not sure about that last one.

[Cratertina]

Well, swaps for T3 mean AI3 perks... Or perk reset to combat perks... There is no "resonable" way to do this.

Lets consider then caped FA, you get extra 50-60k dpm.

Quite possibly better than crat DD... Oh wait crats can get big burger aswell... But the shock of MP ODing everyone in raid would be quite something.

[lainbr]

But the shock of MP ODing everyone in raid would be quite something.

I already OD anything but suicide shades on 12 man with my bow setup xD On pistol or MA setup, I think you could be top DD at anything, since the diference between T2 and T3 pet damage is low.

[Tinypain]

I am now an MP. Fear me.

[Burgly]

I am now an MP. Fear me.

But you are no Bolrn son, so only slight fear :S

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Add any kind of resonalbe dpm + good nuking capability and you have a DD machine, that wont disapoint... atleast not like before when pet did 70k dpm.

Not to be weird or irrelevant, but this is exactly what I've done at TL4. Did scheol quest for mimq and glacial lance is pretty mean. Got 109-110 MP's that do pretty mean pet+nuke damage but then also equipped dual CDR's with maxed burst and element rings (add fire/cold dmg). Seems pretty decent and I reckon there isn't any better DD at that level, crat is close but MP edges it out with 50% faster nukes. Rule of One rech is 3s, GL is 2s.

[Washix]

Hi All,

I will equip alphas in some days and try to figure out what weapons I will use.

I read through the post but I am still undecided. I thing about pistols or 1h blunt. Is this build, as written here somewhere, nearly as good as pistol? 1h Blunt perks don't work, or do they?

Pistols because here the opinion looks like that it's the highest damage output.
1h Blunt because I struggle a little with the IP for a pistol setup and I want the flexability to put on dual shields for soloing.

I am undecided because:

- A.m. Ip issues with a pistol build. Is there a build which allows both pistol and the ip to get 1h blunt up for shields.
I assume I do not need to max all skills I plan, like nano init or nano pool but it is still not enough. Some help would be appreciated.
- Missing construct empowerment with a pistol build (how big is the loss, do pistols balance this out?)
- I read in this thread that a MP does not hit so well with pistol specials.

Thanks in advance.