Confusing rewards

[Pafpuf]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[DigitalBath]

@PafPuf

Ad hominem, salting and strawmen all over.

Bring something new to your argument that counters other people's or stop wasting your time.

Again, your idea is simple. I understood it. I pointed out what's wrong with it, others did too.

[orochi3]

The first quote from Psikie you edited, and everything else you quoted is taken out of context, now; I am still waiting for an actual answer from you or orochi to my previous post.

Yes, whats wrong with a temporary tower site for completing a pvm raid, so you can twink your characters?
And whats wrong with rewarding pvpers with some Full auto/AS contract/ 12m buff / gauntlet hp buff part / some kind of AI armor?

I never mentioned REMOVING the ability to get any item in the traditional older way.

[Pafpuf]

I pointed out what's wrong with it, others did too.

Hm not really no. Just repeating "it's a bad idea" and "it's a pvm game" doesn't strike me as a convincing argument. Just like you think you understand, you also think you have some kind of real argument but I've literally never seen one.

[DigitalBath]

Hm not really no. Just repeating "it's a bad idea" and "it's a pvm game" doesn't strike me as a convincing argument. Just like you think you understand, you also think you have some kind of real argument but I've literally never seen one.

That was not my argument. My argument is mainly based on the majority of the AO community's preferences and one of the type of PvP implemented of AO (and the philosophy of it) making your suggestion not truly viable for this game. Hence me saying that in reality, you'd need to find a different game built differently as not to alienate the majority of people who are still around because of how this game works, making it one of the longest lasting MMO titles in the market.

Still weird how you still think your argument is complex despite it being such a simple one for anyone to understand. You talk about it like this isn't a simple MMO and that the current market tendencies of this and other MMOs are not fairly well known..

[Pafpuf]

Round and round it goes...

[orochi3]

new options dont mean the old options will be lost,
Change can be an option, and you dont have to choose to abide by it. But others may like it.

[Pafpuf]

new options dont mean the old options will be lost, Change can be an option, and you dont have to choose to abide by it. But others may like it.

It's hopeless. Having more than 0-2 endgame pvp setup items as an optional reward for actually pvping (optional means one could still get the same items through pvm as one always could) is apparently "asking for a different game". But hey it's a far better idea for every newcomer/returning player to take a look at AI armor prices on GMI and go wtf are these insane prices /quit.

[Psikie]

No what you are asking for is for you and your friends to farm each other and your froob alts to profit off ai bots.

We see right through you.

[Pafpuf]

How could I farm my friends when they're all on my side, in case you haven't noticed I'm not exactly liked among clanners. But I get it, you took the worst possible stereotype that comes with pvp and automatically labeled me with it. Profit off nodrop vendor armor lol best counter-argument ever. Nvm you didn't know I wrote nodrop (about 3 times thus far) because you can't read.

[Psikie]

So transparent, you could farm each others non sided froobs, or pvp in 5% or zero percent areas derp derp. NODROP on your new ai bot rewards, that most profs don't have the t-skills to make derp derp. Top off with profit from selling the yesdrop ones you already have and just replace them with nodrop ones that you can t-skill= profit derp derp.

More see through than glass windows.

[DigitalBath]

I wouldn't necessarily label Pafpuf as a dishonest pvp afk farmer (as I don't know the player in-game well enough to do so), but I do know the vast majority of players would farm alts / friends' alts / do arranged BS matches non-stop to get their stuff. It has actually happened before (at least on RK2) and it serves as a testament as to what this game's population focus and general honesty in obtaining gear through pvp is.

The situation back then was simple.. and for those who don't know it, it went in a way similar to this:

/tell arrangedpvpbotname !join
/ch arrangedpvpbotname
!side (this would tell people which side was winning and which side was forfeiting the match)

At the end of each BS match a player with enough access permissions would do !switch and the bot would then announce the new sides' roles.
The "winning" team allowed themselves to be kill farmed freely by the losing team for the duration of the match to keep both sides interested.

This started with a small group of people within a BS that wanted to keep it running instead of waiting (iirc back then there were no pvp dailies, but my memory may be faulty on that part).
Every new person joining a BS would be approached by a few members and asked to join the bot.. within 1-2 runs that person would follow the rules peacefully and farm VP like everyone else. There were no exceptions to this that I know of, but since I had to leave AO around that time for work-related travels I don't know how it all ended. Would be nice if someone filled that blank in, though!

This was mostly done on the 2nd highest BS range and would ensure future 220's a full set of OFAB + quite some spare VP very easily.

I really don't want to see this happening again, especially not over lead bots (nodrop or not).
FC back then had more people working on AO, a better budget and a bigger population where multiboxing was overall less common (lower % of the population). If they didn't stop it back then, in the months I knew about it running, they aren't likely to stop it now for the same reason(s).

This is made more evident by the fact lower BS's still often run "by force" with multilogged afk alts, at least two days ago they did in the lvl 200 BS's for at least 6 runs I was present for. And I highly doubt it was dumb luck on my end.

It would just be very easy to rig this without consequence, too easy.

P.S. - Groggy from work, if something isn't clear I'll be back to clear it up sometime soon if needed.

[Pafpuf]

So transparent, you could farm each others non sided froobs

Erm so what, winning a round in battlestation grants victory points and not killing imaginary non-sided 215+ froobs (lol you're going to extremes with nonsense good job). Learn to read.

or pvp in 5% or zero percent areas derp derp.

You don't get VP anywhere other than the battlestation (well a tiny bit in LE AI missions). Learn to read.

NODROP on your new ai bot rewards, that most profs don't have the t-skills to make derp derp.

1. I also suggested they be completed AI armor parts
2. If the item can have one property changed (such as adding the NODROP tag) it can also have other properties changed, such as tradeskill requirements
3. Learn to read.

Top off with profit from selling the yesdrop ones you already have and just replace them with nodrop ones

Considering it would take a while to farm even one piece of armor it would take a player quite some time to replace their whole tradeable AI set. Furthermore nobody is forced to sell it, they could keep it for an alt, and an alt after that and so on. I explained that already a few times as well. I've also elaborated the positive effects that would have on current economy where AI armor is insanely overpriced due to it's high demand. Learn to read.

More see through than glass windows.

Oh yeah a person with your levels of illiteracy and self-centered mentality certainly has the capacity to read people over the internet lol. All of your theoretical drawbacks have been discussed already and I've written down ways to prevent them. Learn to read.

[orochi3]

I think some people may be jealous that those with only 1 account might actually get a pvp character that is has a fair chance to win,
i dont pvp myself, but i understand, that those with rare items and 3rd party software would want to keep the advantage.

You could have said so sooner, it would have saved us all alot of time.

[DigitalBath]

In the example I provided, most people I knew that were involved in it were playing 1 toon, some dual logged. There was no real multiboxing though.
It still made the rewards far too easy to obtain and the majority of people going to BS back then was happy to farm away.

[Psikie]

Erm so what, winning a round in battlestation grants victory points and not killing imaginary non-sided 215+ froobs (lol you're going to extremes with nonsense good job). Learn to read.

Well i could go through the effort of going back through the various threads and posts you have made on this subject but it would take more than 3 pages for those quotes, but one thing is common in them all. You HAVE NEVER EVER posted any level ranges, and when I directly asked you what lvls should gain rewards for your pvp system, the ONLY response you had was not for lvl 1 pvp. Sooo it should be safe to assume you have a level range in mind other than 220 BS, and maybe you don't realize that lvl 1-200 is froob friendly for BS. DERP DERP So lets just say farm the lvl 200 BS with froobs unless that makes absolutely too much sense for you.

Learn to understand

You don't get VP anywhere other than the battlestation (well a tiny bit in LE AI missions). Learn to read.
Learn to read.

Again you have advocated for PVP "rewards" not vp's, which could theoretically be anytime, anywhere, or anything. But you have never said vp's should be "reward enough". You also never said "rewards" should only be on the BS just that there should be PVP "rewards".

So you want to finally set some parameters to your fantasy pvp reward request or just add bits and pieces to try and bolster your argument when its convenient?

Learn to write

Considering it would take a while to farm even one piece of armor it would take a player quite some time to replace their whole tradeable AI set.
Learn to read.

Take a while? what does that mean exactly? Because you have not put a price tag on the cost of your "rewards" suggestion. How much should ai bots cost in time or vps?

Learn to comprehend

Oh yeah a person with your levels of illiteracy and self-centered mentality certainly has the capacity to avoid direct questions and in all of your theoretical responses have been discussed already and debunked. Learn to read.

What a joke, absolutely too easy.

[Cyberleet]

West Athen??? Seriously??? What about Omni HQ? Can still do pvp there, but uhm...don't see it.

Yes, srsly. WA was populated, OHQ was not. Big diference.

[Psikie]

Yes, srsly. WA was populated, OHQ was not. Big diference.

OMG- WA was populated because it used to be a spawn point from backyards dude. Once that was moved so did the population.

[Esssch]

OMG- WA was populated because it used to be a spawn point from backyards dude. Once that was moved so did the population.

But...it's a spawn point from noob island now?

[Psikie]

I couldn't tell you where clans spawn now, last time I checked it was Tir. If it's changed since then I wouldn't know.