Nodrop items

[Damtaz]

some items that need to have nodrop changed to yesdrop:

https://aoitems.com/item/252992/ Communications Relay

https://aoitems.com/item/253192/ Nano Controller Unit

https://aoitems.com/item/158795/ Gaily Painted Hood

[jorricane]

Most of the YESDROP/NODROP tags in AO are obsolete in terms of game design.

YESDROP should be basically everything except "end result" gear.

End result gear, i.e. gear that is nigh-irreplaceable in a final build should be NODROP. This includes things that are already NODROP like Gauntlet shoulders, and Pen Ofab (although that is somewhat debatable for most of the pieces). AI armor should ALWAYS have been NODROP, the decision to make it YESDROP was probably based on player and droprate metrics that no longer apply - or, in the case of past dev teams, probably just lack of understanding how games actually work in a live environment.

If the game is ever to be brought to a new audience, the entire structure of NODROP/YESDROP items needs to be redone from the ground up, and to be honest, the entire method for raidboss loot needs to be rebuilt with inventory spawned loot and other changes. AO is built on a foundation that was based on where MMOs were 15 years ago (even longer if you account for the entire conceptualization pre-production phase), and contains a lot of things that are GUARANTEED to break the gameplay dynamics over the long term.

So yes, those items should be YESDROP. To change that would be a nice step in the right direction - albeit a very, very, very small step.

[meeep]

Ah yeah make raidloot like other games....or just play that other game you wanna change this game to.
This comment not for op. For that other guy

[DigitalBath]

I'll disagree on the controller unit due to the ease of everyone to getting ql300's otherwise but the rest makes sense.

[jorricane]

Ah yeah make raidloot like other games....or just play that other game you wanna change this game to.
This comment not for op. For that other guy

Raidloot is done that way in other games because it works. It allows the dev team to control droprates and timesinks in a very real and dynamic way. In order to keep a game balanced in any real way for new players over the long term, they NEED that kind of control. The state AO is in, with a busted economy and low playerbase with high sub costs, can all be tied DIRECTLY to limited dev control over grinds and loot.

I want AO to be around for another 13 years. I have played on and off almost the entire lifetime of the game, and I want it to continue. But you cannot ignore the fact that AO was built in a time when MMO design was still in its infancy, and there was NO real long term experience with a system as large and complex as an MMO. The design decisions made during production, and by the subsequent teams were based on a lack of understanding of the ramifications. Certain things just WORK, and certain things just DON'T. It's not a matter of wanting AO to be the "other game that [I] wanna change this game to." - it's a matter of wanting to see AO continue to exist, and that requires an evolution dictated by informed design decisions.

You will find no game that has lasted 13 years with no real qualitative changes to the core mechanics and systems, outside of a few VERY niche titles. Even games like Quake Live, which are based on pure nostalgia and momentum have enacted some pretty radical changes in order to stay relevant.

[Xootch]

I'll disagree on the controller unit due to the ease of everyone to getting ql300's otherwise but the rest makes sense.

this.

[Krause]

Wasn't the entire point of these items being NODROP so that you actually had get the drop by doing the raid encounter?

Simply not having certain items yet really isn't reason enough to require a NODROP tag being removed.

[Gimpynoob]

Wasn't the entire point of these items being NODROP so that you actually had get the drop by doing the raid encounter?

Simply not having certain items yet really isn't reason enough to require a NODROP tag being removed.

There is no reason to have a nodrop tag on items that can be easily sold anyway and don't require a raid anymore.

[Ciex]

Nodrop tags are important for example to keep people raiding instances. Yesdrop BoC would mean that 1 of those would be enough for an entire org. IMHO current items could keep their nodrop tags but all items should come for example in yesdrop packages that could be looted and sold. Once you unpack it it becomes nodrop. Yesdrop items mean more raiding and lower prices. I remember paying like 200 mln for my nt dot from biodome (nodrop), now i have one of those (yesdrop) and couldnt sell it for 20 mln via gmi. Im willing to bet that boc (around 1 -1,5 bln for lootrights nowadays) would be no more expensive than 500 mln in one month after such change.

[SaloSalo]

boc was 1b already in 2010.

It was nondrop then too, what is your point?

[SaloSalo]

He said that it's 1-1,5b nowadays while i said it used to be that in 2010 already. What is your point?

How are BoC prices from 2010 relevant to whether the nondrop tag should be removed?

[Ciex]

Im affraid you didnt understand me. I said that prices drop once item becomes yesdrop.

[Psikie]

AI armor should ALWAYS have been NODROP, the decision to make it YESDROP was probably based on player and droprate metrics that no longer apply - or, in the case of past dev teams, probably just lack of understanding how games actually work in a live environment.

I suppose that's cool since only engi's and traders can even make ql300 armor...

Oh wait maybe that's why it's yesdrop because of the high tradeskill reqs.

[Tikra]

Oh wait maybe that's why it's yesdrop because of the high tradeskill reqs.

Hmm....
soz, couldnt resist

[Traderjill]

I suppose that's cool since only engi's and traders can even make ql300 armor...

Oh wait maybe that's why it's yesdrop because of the high tradeskill reqs.

I don't think it was yesdrop due to the tradeskill requirement. There's nothing that would've stopped them from adding one more step to the tradeskill process (requiring 0 tradeskills) that, for instance, turned a Yesdrop "Unfinished Combined Scout's Sleeve" into a wearable NoDrop Combined Scout's Sleeve.

I remember being a lowbie and not being able to do the tradeskill that turned a pit demon heart into indigo carmine. I was able to pass it on to someone that had the skill and they gave me the yesdrop carmine that I combined with the yesdrop necromancer cloak to make the nodrop reanimator's cloak. So that concept has been in game for quite some time. Guess my point is that if they wanted to make it nodrop, they could've.. they just didn't want to.

[Psikie]

Hmm....
soz, couldnt resist

Really? Try that with all the profs and see how close you can get, i'll wait.

OR better still trying making Ai armor with your 1-50, 100/150/200 twink see how that works out for you.

I don't think it was yesdrop due to the tradeskill requirement.

Doesn't really matter what any of us think. The powers that be made some stuff yesdrop and others nodrop for what ever reason.

Maybe I like to give the devs the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn't expect all profs to raise certain trade skills to make ql 300 ai armor. I also like to assume they intended for players to have a few pieces of AI armor primarily for buffing and not everyday use. With the rarity that I assume they expected a player might have 1-3 pieces to pass around to their toons/friends for buffing. Thus yesdrop. I could be wrong on giving them credit like that.

Could they have made an additional yesdrop step like reanimator cloaks sure, and they could also make beast raid loot vacuum sealed yesdrops also. But they didn't.

SO we are back to square 1 and while there are plenty of things that should be changed on yesdrop/nodrop scale AI armor is NOT one of them. But it is not up to me, that just happens to be the way that it is now.

[Traderjill]

Doesn't really matter what any of us think.

Then why'd you comment on the topic?

[Psikie]

Then why'd you comment on the topic?

I must have miss typed on my keyboard I should have said it doesn't matter what any of us think except for Jill.
Because my initial post on the subject was not about what I think especially when extrapolated.

I suppose that's cool since only engi's and traders can even make ql300 armor...

Someone posted something about a trade skill keeper. Which while possible is not very probable, and that setup would not work for 90% of AO profs if it is even possible. The real kicker comes here, wait for....

trying making Ai armor with your 1-50, 100/150/200 twink see how that works out for you.

SO AGAIN we are back to square 1 and while there are plenty of things that should be changed on yesdrop/nodrop scale AI armor is NOT one of them. But it is not up to me, that just happens to be the way that it is now.

So yea you could try posting to make AI armor nodrop, and see if most profs can even start to try to trade skill a set until after lvl 150ish, and then those sets would be like ql 60-100 and not even worth making. I would love to see enfo's, shades, ma, and advys try to gimp themselves to make ql300 ai armor. Hope you have plenty of IP reset points.

But I guess that just makes too much sense. Especially with all the min-max twinkers that count down to the bare bones pt expenditures, AI armor t-skill reqs must have been stealth patch lowered.

[Cratertina]

Make all yesdrop, and be done with it.

[Traderjill]

I must have miss typed on my keyboard I should have said it doesn't matter what any of us think except for Jill.

While you didn't use the term "I think" isn't anything that isn't 100% fact simply someone's opinion. So your statement:

I suppose that's cool since only engi's and traders can even make ql300 armor...

Oh wait maybe that's why it's yesdrop because of the high tradeskill reqs.

is really no different than mine except for wording. And that was my point. I disagreed with your reasoning (or lack there of) and you went to the "well none of it matters" response. If you feel that way then, my point again, is you shouldn't have bothered to pose a hypothetical reason either.

No where have I ever indicated that no one else's opinion matters or that my opinion is somehow more important than anyone else's. I've actually started avoiding responding to most of your posts because your tactics for responding lately have been quite odd.. at least from what I have seen historically.