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Thread: Monthly Development Update - November 2014 (Gobble gobble)

  1. #41
    @Freor: There is ZERO palpable evidence that 25% of the population left and ZERO evidence connecting it with multiboxing (which has been around for 8+ years). Lying makes your point weaker, not stronger. We discussed this before, you should know better. I can fabricate graphs too. Until a more reliable source comes up there's just no credibility to your claims.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Nov 30th, 2014 at 00:05:12.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
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    <Lazy>
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    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  2. #42
    Heh, still continuing on denial route eh? Well, you can believe what you want. I'm sure FC have access to similar data I posted, and they know perfectly well it was real. So do lot of people ingame... it's really not difficult to notice when many of your friends quit and lft, towns and raids become more empty.

  3. #43
    Still the same old Pvp whiners whining about things they like to whine about 'eh? Nothing ever changes...

    OT; Another nice Monthly Update there Michi! Keep up the great work man
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  4. #44
    Still the same MB supporters / trolls trying to keep their sploit and kill the game 'eh? Notin changed...

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Freor View Post
    Heh, still continuing on denial route eh? Well, you can believe what you want. I'm sure FC have access to similar data I posted, and they know perfectly well it was real. So do lot of people ingame... it's really not difficult to notice when many of your friends quit and lft, towns and raids become more empty.
    And yet, I see people returning more than leaving right now. And I'm doing content both during prime time and off-hours, which a few months ago I couldn't do! Must be the luckiest neutral on Rubi-Ka.. either that or you're out of touch with the non-pvp reality of the game.
    I'm in touch with both pvp and pvm since I love both and tend to make hybrid characters. I also have non-neutrals I do towers with from time to time, though I admittedly have been more into pvm lately because I'm having good fun with it.

    There's plenty of people lft right now (23h30 GMT).. and I even got a couple inf mission teams at 7-8am GMT earlier, ffs.

    I deny your claims because there's no evidence to them. I don't deny multibox is damaging to tower pvp, but I see it as a consequence of the game's relatively low population, not as a cause of anything (a view supported by what I am playing right now). Exclusive solutions are non-viable financially and damaging to the community, so banning/prohibiting multiboxing is a bad idea.
    I also don't see many people quit over it, as towers are still active and there's plenty of non-multiboxers doing them on most days. (though today I know at least one tower site was hit with arty's army of mb twinks, which sucks.. but could be countered with some people and tactics).

    Let's not redo the other thread.

    Also call things for what they are. Multiboxing isn't an exploit. It's an approved method of gameplay that can be done without breaking the EULA. Those that use automation within it should be banned, not because they're multiboxing though.. but because they're botting. It's a different thing.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Nov 30th, 2014 at 00:51:57.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
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    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
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    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Not that many people left over multiboxing. It's an overhyped (by some) number that fortunately FC can afford to ignore since inclusive solutions are always better than exclusive ones, especially in a low population environment.

    Let's focus on causes instead of consequences. (i might macro this sentence someday).
    How many do you consider not that many? Not trying to be argumentative but I can only speak from my personal experience. I probably don't need to say that I'm not that big on PvP but many of the people I have historically done PvM with were. The multiboxing PvP issues caused so many people that I played with Clanside to eventually quit or moreso become inactive in game that I felt the impact. Eventually, even the Omni people I played with left as well and I suspect a good portion of the reason was due to them not having their opposite side playmates to interact with on a regular basis. I'm just one person but I'm sure that many people echo a similar tale. I've seen enough people echo it in game for me, without any numbers, to feel that a relevant number of people quit playing/went inactive over the issue.

    I don't know if 25% is a good number but it doesn't feel inaccurate to me either.. at least not based on what I saw in game population wise via number of people on LFT, number of people open to teams/raids/etc. I would say if you just looked at Clanside, that the number of active players that simply stop caring about playing was higher than 25%.
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  7. #47
    @Traderjill: My main point is that most people have an insufficient amount of data on the matter (myself included). For me, the game is healthier and more populated than it was a few months ago. I see many returning players and I get teams more easily. With friends and with strangers. I mostly play with clan side apart from inf missions where it's about 50-50 (which is great since I get to balance faction).

    People have to keep numbers and feelings apart and to not fabricate data. If I analyse things from my point of view and Freor/etc analyse it from theirs and it doesn't match, something's wrong with the data collection. FC has the data. Not necessarily Michizure but quite possibly those above him.
    What would you say of Nusquam's statement of AO's population decline being rather steady and in line with other major titles in the market (EVE and WoW bucking the trend)? Doesn't it contradict the 25% short-term loss perceived?

    When I said "Not that many" I was replying to the 25% claim. I wasn't saying that it was a too small number to measure.

    There are few people who left exclusively because of PvP multiboxing, though. For some it was one of several factors, but as we further the discussion, the validity of action against it gets diluted.

    I'll reiterate.. inclusive solutions before exclusive solutions, causes before consequences.. multiboxing is what it is in pvp because of the low population. It's not the other way around.

    EDIT:

    I'll make this post a little bit longer and add a relevant example of what I mean.

    The game doesn't run well on laptops with some integrated cards and with switchable graphics. Those make up the vast majority of computers sold since 2008. Tablets may soon outsell laptops.. that'll be an even more interesting set of issues, but as long as we're on x86 + Windows, solutions shouldn't be too crazy to get to.
    Fixing it is likely cheaper, if time-consuming, than any of the proposed "solutions" to multiboxing (most of them are highly flawed and misinformed, the best one required contracting a considerably expensive service, as discussed in another thread).
    But.. for the sake of the argument, let's pretend both solutions cost exactly the same.. and both aren't cheap.

    What would you rather do? Fix the game so it runs on the majority of platforms that people can use to play the game on now and in the coming years.. or ban a part of your current population so a relatively small part it feels better?
    You can't afford both and you need return on your investment because.. well.. the game is a business.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Nov 30th, 2014 at 04:30:01.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  8. #48
    Well I don't MB and from what have seen the population has steadily declined over the years. The spike from SL release and spike from AI release and another smaller spike from LE/Lox was never as big as AO at it's height years ago. The decline has been on going which was the reason AO went from 3 servers down to 1. That had nothin to do with MB.

    What I am sayin is that even if MB never existed the population would have still steadily declined. So trying to attribute it to "one thing" that just happens to coincidentally be the one thing the anti-mb pvp crowd is against because their billion cred toons get waxed by 5 froobs is ludicrous to me.

    These are very arbitrary arguments to try and link some cause and effect which is garbage. It would make a whole lot more sense to say the price of a 12+ yr old game is the reason population is low or the fact that new games pop up every 2-4 months drawing players in with better graphics. Instead of these tinfoil hat claims against MB.

    Note again i'm not a supporter of MB but I am going to call out BS anytime I see it on the forums.

    I could make a similar crazy argument saying population decline is because advy's are so OP. FC ban advy prof because 25% of population left because they are OP. I've got a MS paint image that shows it. Let me flood every thread with that until everyone believes me. Then I would sound just as whacky as some of the other posters here.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Voiran View Post
    If there isnt anyone on lft when you happen to check it doesnt mean population has decreased. And you always try to make it look like every multiboxer is kill stealing dynas. Fyi dynas do respawn even if multiboxer happen to be killing them when you would like to. And close to 26% of the people did quit when fc removed boundaries from sector 10 in october 2011 one week after i finished my twink.

    i just wanna say to EVERYBODY here who is against multiboxing: How about paying some respect to those ppl who are still dedicated enough to pay up to 600€/year for this 13 year old game. We are keeping this game alive and ask you to bow when we walk past
    I didn't bring up any personal experiences in multiboxing in this thread so I'm not sure what you're even referring to here. I was simply discussing my personal perception as it related to the time where the multiboxing outrage was at its peak. The population took a noticeable decline Clanside and just because I can't give the exact numbers doesn't mean it wasn't a significant decline. How many people do we think play AO on Clanside vs Omniside anyway? I mean I can think of something close to a couple to three dozen people that left over the multiboxing, most of which aren't forum posters. I can add on to that another dozen that left as an after-effect (meaning their friends stop playing so they eventually did as well). I'm not sure what 3-4 dozen people, most that had multiple accounts themselves adds up to as a percentage of the population. I'm also positive that I don't know all of the people that left so there must be more.

    Are there other reasons why people have left and will continue to leave AO? Absolutely. There is a very long list of reasons why a 13 year old game will consistantly lose subscribers. But even including the normal decline that would be expected of a game of this age, there are times when certain events cause a spike in the lose. I believe it is this spike that people are referring to when they throw around numbers like 25% of the population. Since then, many of those have come back.. I have come back, for example.. that doesn't take away the impact that multiboxing had and the fact that many people didn't return.

    Now as for bowing to people that multibox. I don't think so. At any given time I've paid for as little as 1 (like right now) to as many as 5 paid accounts. I have financially supported this game via my subscriptions for well over 10 years.. quite often even when I wasn't even playing the game actively. But feel free to say thanks to me if you want.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Nov 30th, 2014 at 07:39:58.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    @Traderjill: My main point is that most people have an insufficient amount of data on the matter (myself included). For me, the game is healthier and more populated than it was a few months ago. I see many returning players and I get teams more easily. With friends and with strangers. I mostly play with clan side apart from inf missions where it's about 50-50 (which is great since I get to balance faction).
    If you actually look at the activity data I posted, it shows the exact same thing. That's called "summer decline" and has happened every year. People travel and go outside on summer holidays, AO activity drops. Come autumn, they start playing again. The 25% drop I mentioned is from the steady-state population pre-MB compared to the stabilized numbers now after summer. I could have compared the numbers during holidays to those pre-MB which showed a ~45% decline, but that would've indeed been wrong way to interpret the data.

    Edit: explanation for the marked spots. (1) is the server merge. (2) is when multiboxing (in pvp) started in August 2013 - blue line shows the drop on clan numbers. (3) is FC announcing the engine beta, which caused activity increase in the game. And finally (4) is when things got really out of control with MB around February this year (NT army at tl7, crats at tl5 etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    People have to keep numbers and feelings apart and to not fabricate data. If I analyse things from my point of view and Freor/etc analyse it from theirs and it doesn't match, something's wrong with the data collection. FC has the data. Not necessarily Michizure but quite possibly those above him.
    What would you say of Nusquam's statement of AO's population decline being rather steady and in line with other major titles in the market (EVE and WoW bucking the trend)? Doesn't it contradict the 25% short-term loss perceived?
    Nusquam was most likely talking about subscription numbers, where sudden mass cancellations like those MBing caused show over a long period of time. Some people have/had year+ long subs! I'm talking about active population, those that people play with/against in the game. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that Nusquam's statement made sometime during March or so? Can't seem to find the post. The big drop had just started then.


    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    When I said "Not that many" I was replying to the 25% claim. I wasn't saying that it was a too small number to measure.

    There are few people who left exclusively because of PvP multiboxing, though. For some it was one of several factors, but as we further the discussion, the validity of action against it gets diluted.

    I'll reiterate.. inclusive solutions before exclusive solutions, causes before consequences.. multiboxing is what it is in pvp because of the low population. It's not the other way around.
    I'll reiterate as well. Non-closed areas like NW and dynas / outdoor encounters are those MB has the most devastating effect at. Fix those by banning MB use in them, and you fix a good portion of the problem without even affecting many multibox-farmers much. I'm sorry to say but it's daydreaming to imagine AO is somehow going to get such a population increase that boxing becomes non-problematic. Definitely isn't going to happen with boxing/boxers around.


    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    What would you rather do? Fix the game so it runs on the majority of platforms that people can use to play the game on now and in the coming years.. or ban a part of your current population so a relatively small part it feels better?
    You can't afford both and you need return on your investment because.. well.. the game is a business.
    Fixing MB and making new engine aren't exclusive. Sure this was an example, but the arguments of the MB-fans are becoming quite laughable
    Last edited by Freor; Nov 30th, 2014 at 09:25:39.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Freor View Post
    If you actually look at the activity data I posted, it shows the exact same thing. That's called "summer decline" and has happened every year. People travel and go outside on summer holidays, AO activity drops. Come autumn, they start playing again. The 25% drop I mentioned is from the steady-state population pre-MB compared to the stabilized numbers now after summer. I could have compared the numbers during holidays to those pre-MB which showed a ~45% decline, but that would've indeed been wrong way to interpret the data.

    Edit: explanation for the marked spots. (1) is the server merge. (2) is when multiboxing (in pvp) started in August 2013 - blue line shows the drop on clan numbers. (3) is FC announcing the engine beta, which caused activity increase in the game. And finally (4) is when things got really out of control with MB around February this year (NT army at tl7, crats at tl5 etc)



    Nusquam was most likely talking about subscription numbers, where sudden mass cancellations like those MBing caused show over a long period of time. Some people have/had year+ long subs! I'm talking about active population, those that people play with/against in the game. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that Nusquam's statement made sometime during March or so? Can't seem to find the post. The big drop had just started then.




    I'll reiterate as well. Non-closed areas like NW and dynas / outdoor encounters are those MB has the most devastating effect at. Fix those by banning MB use in them, and you fix a good portion of the problem without even affecting many multibox-farmers much. I'm sorry to say but it's daydreaming to imagine AO is somehow going to get such a population increase that boxing becomes non-problematic. Definitely isn't going to happen with boxing/boxers around.




    Fixing MB and making new engine aren't exclusive. Sure this was an example, but the arguments of the MB-fans are becoming quite laughable
    I'll just remind you I'm not a MB fan or a MB'er. The only reason I "support it" (or rather.. oppose your side of the argument) is because the proposed solutions would hurt the game more than help it. Period.

    As for everything else, I don't care about your fabricated graph and I'm done discussing it since I've been over this on the other thread. I'll trust data from reliable sources, not MS Paint. Nusquam or whoever is higher up than him in FC likely has access to both sub data and activity data in reliable ways. I'll trust that if/when I see it.
    Your general opinion is something you're entitled to have, but don't present opinions as facts. It's ridiculous to do so.
    Taking over every thread you can while doing so takes credibility away from you.

    My example was in regards to the expenses necessary and to what choice Traderjill (not you!) would go for and in the context of her post. Note the @Traderjill in my post. It has meaning.
    That said, you didn't even answer it either or justify your indirect answer properly. You also didn't consider answering about the return on investment needed for such a huge expense. You just chose to go for semi ad-hominem which shows what your arguments are becoming and it'll only further decrease your credibility.

    For your own anti-MB campaign's sake.. become more credible.

    EDIT: It's 8:45 GMT and I've left after an inf mish team w/ randoms to go to bed. Not bad for such a "dead" game when teams run this far off prime time.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Nov 30th, 2014 at 09:49:15.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  12. #52
    Its real fun that 2 multiboxers can clear a towerspot under 15 min with 35 + towers on , that make towerwars so fun,
    And to see some people in here that think that multiboxes are the elite of the game becouse they pay for more accounts its so fun.

    why dont u michzure let the multiboxes be GMs instead so it will be easier for them to kill other players and so they can destroy a towerspot in less then 10 sec , that will make the game so fun , it will give them the power that many people in here allredy think that multiboxers have .

    if u dont fix the mb crap , then u can remove tower wars and pwp from the game .

    There was many players that left the game for it , and many that hate mb but they dont visit this forum becouse they now that u will not change it .

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    I'll just remind you I'm not a MB fan or a MB'er. The only reason I "support it" (or rather.. oppose your side of the argument) is because the proposed solutions would hurt the game more than help it. Period.
    Funny how you don't even comment how banning MB at towers/dynas would hurt the game more than help

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Taking over every thread you can while doing so takes credibility away from you.
    You jumped on this thread first, expanding your denial arguments here from the other thread when someone else talked about the pvp'ers who left. I merely posted the actual numbers (which ofc you deny as they don't fit you view, which is understandable). If someone's losing credibility, it's you.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    That said, you didn't even answer it either or justify your indirect answer properly. You also didn't consider answering about the return on investment needed for such a huge expense. You just chose to go for semi ad-hominem which shows what your arguments are becoming and it'll only further decrease your credibility.
    Huh? What huge expense? FC most likely already have ways to check the timings of commands coming from player clients to their server. If they went with the "players report boxers, FC investigates" I suggested as one option, the "huge" expense would be GMs checking logs. If they can afford GMs checking people's equipment (the suggested removal of hide equipment so players can report sploiters), they can check reported boxers too. Specially since we all alredy know who they are (in pvp).


    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    For your own anti-MB campaign's sake.. become more credible.

    EDIT: It's 8:45 GMT and I've left after an inf mish team w/ randoms to go to bed. Not bad for such a "dead" game when teams run this far off prime time.
    I'll suggest the same to you. Noone in their right mind can claim MB wouldn't be completely unfair and damaging for NW especially. Trying to somehow twist that around by whatever ways isn't going to make you credible, bacause many of the readers of this thread have seen the truth in-game.

    Isn't it hard to be a MB-cheerleader btw? On one sentence you have to whine how the low population makes MB absolutely necessary, and on the next talk how active the game is even during off-hours?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    Hello everyone - Happy Thanksgiving to our US players, and happy weekend to everyone else! I hope you have all had a great November.

    Pre-Christmas Patch
    Before we begin this year's holiday festivities, we plan to deploy a patch to Live. This update will set the stage for the return of Santaleet, his chaotic workshop, a wandering Father Time, and other holiday high jinks. In addition to holiday preparations, a number of updates and improvements are queued up to persist after the holidays have concluded.

    Some time after this update, also expect to see a new subscription offer and some new account-wide items for sale! We will also be offering some Christmas-themed gifts for you to keep or share with your friends.

    The Xan Reliquary
    This past month we released some new Inferno missions - Thank you everyone who gave them an try and provided feedback! The intention with this encounter was to offer a new leveling option with fewer barriers to entry, also improving on a few shortcomings of the existing missions, while not fully eclipsing the other sources of XP; overall, I feel this was a success.

    To improve the overall experience, this coming update will bring some adjustments to these missions. Within some specific waves of monsters, the amount of monsters needed to reach the boss will be reduced. Rewards for some of the bosses will also be improved, occasionally offering a symbiant or other gear useful for twinking/leveling up.

    18.7 Patch
    With the new Inferno Missions Live, work has resumed towards preparing 18.7. Focus has been primarily on the larger, non-profession specific issues, though attention will be directed towards the rebalance changes soon. Overall, many great changes were previously made, it's just a matter of massaging some aspects of what has been done, while enacting some additional changes. I look forward to providing more specific updates in the coming weeks.

    - 000 Weapons
    A few years ago, a selection of weapons introduced at the game's launch were remade with more contemporary attributes, while being hidden behind high requirements and elusive upgrade items. The requirements of these weapons have been lowered with damage ranges adjusted. Andre Bottle has also been given a few new items to sell.

    These updated weapons can be found in Basic/Advanced/Superior shops in Omni-Tek and Clans General Stores; these terminals can be accessed by Neutrals as well.

    Illegally Modified Ofab Weapons
    Deep within the Abandoned Subway, a rash of modified Ofab weapons have begun surfacing. Just as many of the creatures living within the Subway have received (or fallen victim to) illegal and dangerous modifications, these weapons also have been altered in unnatural and unintended ways.

    In addition to the new "- 000" weapons in the shops, I hope these new weapons will help new characters as they progress.

    Updated Foul Creatures
    In Eastern Foul Plains, some new, higher level Medusa have begun appearing. Despite sharing a physical appearance with other nearby Medusa, these foes are not to be taken too lightly, and should be approached with caution.

    Further south, within the Mercenaries' camp, an often overlooked and avoided resident can be found standing near one of the several bonfires. Often seen in a tacky, green cloak, this individual has been given a few new tricks, in addition to some new rewards to those who best him in combat.

    Additional Updates
    This upcoming patch will include a number of other changes. For example, upon Tarasque's death, a rather irate assistant of Administrator De'Valos will make his way into the halls of the castle to inform players of how long until the dragon has been repaired. Quest targets of the various Inferno questlines will appear in slightly greater number, and respawn more frequently. Some pieces of Carbonum armor will appear within General store armor shops. Some more changes are coming, and will all be included on the Testlive/Live patch notes, when they reach those stages.

    Thank you everyone and I hope you have a great December!
    Thanks Michi

    These all sound like good idea's / updates ... I can't tell from your notes though which are slated for the pre-Christmas patch and which are waiting on the 18.7 patch. Could you give us a clue, I don't like to assume? Also, is 18.7 getting to a point you can give an ETA?

    Emma

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Freor View Post
    Funny how you don't even comment how banning MB at towers/dynas would hurt the game more than help



    You jumped on this thread first, expanding your denial arguments here from the other thread when someone else talked about the pvp'ers who left. I merely posted the actual numbers (which ofc you deny as they don't fit you view, which is understandable). If someone's losing credibility, it's you.



    Huh? What huge expense? FC most likely already have ways to check the timings of commands coming from player clients to their server. If they went with the "players report boxers, FC investigates" I suggested as one option, the "huge" expense would be GMs checking logs. If they can afford GMs checking people's equipment (the suggested removal of hide equipment so players can report sploiters), they can check reported boxers too. Specially since we all alredy know who they are (in pvp).




    I'll suggest the same to you. Noone in their right mind can claim MB wouldn't be completely unfair and damaging for NW especially. Trying to somehow twist that around by whatever ways isn't going to make you credible, bacause many of the readers of this thread have seen the truth in-game.

    Isn't it hard to be a MB-cheerleader btw? On one sentence you have to whine how the low population makes MB absolutely necessary, and on the next talk how active the game is even during off-hours?
    1. I replied to someone who brought the topic of MB'ing heavily reducing population. I was already present in this thread, as you can see if you scroll through it.
    2. If someone came up with a graph with population stats in "favor of my argument", I would still deny it if it wasn't from a reliable source. False evidence can only hurt the serious arguments.
    3. I won't go down to your level. Your ad-hominem belittles your argument. Insult me and call me whatever you want, it doesn't make you any more right than you were before. I responded to your dynas/etc suggestion through viability of detection and cost of implementation, possibly on the other thread.
    4. Your grasp of my argument shows you either barely read or barely comprehend my posts (I know they're long-winded.. it's a work in progress to shorten them).
    I see a low population in relation to other major titles and to the available content and level ranges and factions. Michizure has been doing an awesome job of being a provider of inclusive solutions. Omni, Clan and Neutral can now level together from 170+ in Inferno without a 220 in team.
    This is a GREAT example of what needs to be done. The players returning and the population being "healthy enough for teams" doesn't mean FC can suddenly afford to make bad investments, obviously enough. More measures are needed to push. My example was one of choice between inclusive and exclusive solutions when done right now and it's good to characterize one's views on the game.

    Re-read the other thread and even parts of this one if you have any doubts about my point here. It should've been clear by now.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    Not that many people left over multiboxing. It's an overhyped (by some) number that fortunately FC can afford to ignore since inclusive solutions are always better than exclusive ones, especially in a low population environment.

    Let's focus on causes instead of consequences. (i might macro this sentence someday).
    I can personally name 20 players who left and still are gone due MB (and many more I cant name) Most were raid leaders and raidbot owners. These people quiting game has made massive impact. One of the oldest guilds completely inactive due it. Guild that did pvm content daily basis. Helped new players and others needing things done. All this for 2-4 players abusing MB in pvp.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by fakiiri View Post
    I can personally name 20 players who left and still are gone due MB (and many more I cant name) Most were raid leaders and raidbot owners. These people quiting game has made massive impact. One of the oldest guilds completely inactive due it. Guild that did pvm content daily basis. Helped new players and others needing things done. All this for 2-4 players abusing MB in pvp.
    If you truly believe all those people left directly because of 2-4 people using MB in PvP and not any other reason (or set of reasons), you need to re-evaluate things.
    Note that I never denied that multiboxing was bad for towers. I said it several times in other threads (maybe this one too). But sometimes people need to find an easy scapegoat instead of thinking things through..
    If only those 20 players, including raid leaders, had grouped up and steamrolled over the 2-4 multiboxers like they do on other major MMO titles.. but no. They just quit, which makes a lot more sense, right? Not really.
    Multiboxing isn't god mode. It's possible (and often not hard) to kill them using proper PvP tactics (not just the usual AO blob & rush brainless mode, though with sufficient numbers even that would work..)

    I'll maintain my point. Let's think of solutions in the line of Michi's improvements so far. Making the current population team up and do more content (like with the new brink missions) as well as help newer players stick around (with the new subway and 000 weapon changes). Those will do more for the game than any MB ban could, given the game's nature.
    If, in the future, when the game can invest more and take more risks, multiboxing becomes an issue of it's own (instead of being a consequence of low population) then FC will have the resources to tackle it.

    If the game never grows, FC can't ever take such risks because they'll lose even more people (and money) due to useless accounts (from the MB'ers), even more broken economy (less farming) and often enough less teams/raids (multiboxers often team up and raid with other players).. not to mention the investment in preventing multiboxers having zero financial return at the moment.
    If the game becomes financially non-viable no one wins because the servers won't be up. This last part is what I care the most about.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Dec 1st, 2014 at 08:03:47.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    If you truly believe all those people left directly because of 2-4 people using MB in PvP and not any other reason (or set of reasons), you need to re-evaluate things.
    Dont have to believe anything as they have personally said they left cause of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    If only those 20 players, including raid leaders, had grouped up and steamrolled over the 2-4 multiboxers like they do on other major MMO titles.. but no. They just quit, which makes a lot more sense, right? Not really.
    Multiboxing isn't god mode. It's possible (and often not hard) to kill them using proper PvP tactics (not just the usual AO blob & rush brainless mode, though with sufficient numbers even that would work..)
    No. They quit because funcom did not act upon it.
    Also even if you somehow manage to kill those instantly meeping multibox armies they would just wait till there is not that many defenders online to make em meep and wipe towerfield within few minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    If, in the future, when the game can invest more and take more risks, multiboxing becomes an issue of it's own (instead of being a consequence of low population) then FC will have the resources to tackle it.
    PVP Multibox were not consequence of low population. Low PVP population is cause of MB. NW PVP were actually pretty active before MB abuse started. Soon after that it went almost completely dead due people on clan side leaving or just stopped doing NW as there is no point to do it anymore.

  19. #59
    For real.... Do you guys really have to derail EVERY thread into a MB discussion?

    Ontopic:
    Great changes! Can't wait for them
    Also can't wait for the subscription offers, might even resub or a longer period this time

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by fakiiri View Post
    they would just wait till there is not that many defenders online to make em meep and wipe towerfield within few minutes.

    Soon after that it went almost completely dead due people on clan side leaving or just stopped doing NW as there is no point to do it anymore.
    if my towerfield was under attack by multiboxer i would keep killing them till there is not any multibox army online. and you dont have any valid evidence that nw pvp is dead because it clearly isnst dead.
    Last edited by Voiran; Dec 3rd, 2014 at 10:43:19.

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